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Khadr should make us ashamed to be Canadian


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#2071 eyeball

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 11:22 AM

Hearsay, not heresy.

Yes. That said it is a heresy to suggest Omar Khadr is innocent.

I'm not familiar with what any of those things you mention say about Omar's mother, specifically; what proof there is within them that could be used to convict the woman of indocrtinating a child soldier.

They provide evidence of the crime that was committed against Omar Khadr, the way a body in your freezer or the trunk of your car might except this body is still alive.

She's no pious, naive waif. But, I'm unconvinced she's committed any actual crime. It would be the Khadr patriarch I'd say orchestrated the induction of his sons into terrorism. Of course, he's dead now.

The point being that Omar Khadr is still the victim.

#2072 bleeding heart

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 06:00 AM

The point being that Omar Khadr is still the victim.



Everyone would immediately recognize this if the allegations were other than attacks against allied personnel.

Which means the moral compass is set firmly on the doctrinal necessities of "worthy" vs. "unworthy" victims, combatants, and chess pieces generally.

Edited by bleeding heart, 06 June 2012 - 06:01 AM.

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#2073 g_bambino

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 09:39 AM

They provide evidence of the crime that was committed against Omar Khadr, the way a body in your freezer or the trunk of your car might except this body is still alive.

The point being that Omar Khadr is still the victim.

Stop speaking in vagueries. If a woman is to be convicted of a crime, there has to be specific proof she committed it. It isn't enough that documents "provide evidence of the crime that was committed against Omar Khadr"; they must show his mother committed a crime against Omar Khadr. It isn't enough to say" Omar Khadr is still the victim"; there must be proof he's the victim of his mother's crimes.

#2074 eyeball

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 10:56 AM

Stop speaking in vagueries. If a woman is to be convicted of a crime, there has to be specific proof she committed it. It isn't enough that documents "provide evidence of the crime that was committed against Omar Khadr"; they must show his mother committed a crime against Omar Khadr. It isn't enough to say" Omar Khadr is still the victim"; there must be proof he's the victim of his mother's crimes.

You mean like forensic physical evidence? I'm certainly not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure the law allows for the sort of circumstantial evidence that her actions and statements might provide, in accordance with SC discretion.

#2075 g_bambino

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 02:05 PM

I'm certainly not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure the law allows for the sort of circumstantial evidence that her actions and statements might provide, in accordance with SC discretion.

Some circumstantial evidence is looked at. But just circumstantial evidence? I don't believe a conviction could be laid on that alone.

If there were more than simply circumstantial evidence, do you not think someone would've laid charges by now? The Khadrs aren't exactly Canada's most loved family.

#2076 Manny

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 03:36 PM

Suspect the reason there is no interest in a trial is that something else would come out, something that the authoritities do not want to be made public.

That's always the reason, when someone seems otherwise "untouchable".

#2077 eyeball

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 12:13 AM

Some circumstantial evidence is looked at. But just circumstantial evidence? I don't believe a conviction could be laid on that alone.

If there were more than simply circumstantial evidence, do you not think someone would've laid charges by now? The Khadrs aren't exactly Canada's most loved family.

No, I don't think Ottawa would dare charge his mother even if she signed a confession. Acknowledging Omar Khadr's status as an indoctrinated child soldier would open up a really messy can of worms.

Edited by eyeball, 08 June 2012 - 08:28 AM.


#2078 Radsickle

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 06:49 PM

No, I don't think Ottawa would dare charge his mother even if she signed a confession. Acknowledging Omar Khadr's status as an indoctrinated child soldier would open up a really messy can of worms.


But he was an indoctrinated child soldier. Why did Canada just lock him up?

Hypocrisy? A divided country? A Conservative wing-nut's anti-Liberal ideology? Xenophobia? Racism? A Country-wide juvenile awareness of world issues and UN conventions? A slow entropy in the quality of our country's leaders? An extra-judicial torture/treatment put upon him because his Dad cavorted with Bin Laden and we wanted to squeeze as much information from this immature fruit bud as possible, disregarding his civil rights and UN rights?

....A subservience to whatever America wants?

Did I just re-open the can?

.... Sorry, but Omar deserves some compensation for how Canada treated him.

Edited by Radsickle, 06 July 2012 - 08:31 PM.


#2079 Shady

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:19 AM

But he was an indoctrinated child soldier. Why did Canada just lock him up?

Hypocrisy? A divided country? A Conservative wing-nut's anti-Liberal ideology? Xenophobia? Racism? A Country-wide juvenile awareness of world issues and UN conventions? A slow entropy in the quality of our country's leaders? An extra-judicial torture/treatment put upon him because his Dad cavorted with Bin Laden and we wanted to squeeze as much information from this immature fruit bud as possible, disregarding his civil rights and UN rights?

....A subservience to whatever America wants?

Did I just re-open the can?

.... Sorry, but Omar deserves some compensation for how Canada treated him.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
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#2080 eyeball

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 07:00 AM

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Yes, that's why the government won't do anything that might acknowledge Khadr's indoctrination. If that ever happened and worse, if it was found to have been aware of it's potential culpability, as suggested by it's order to claw back any discussion about Khadr's young age back when he was still a kid... well, I doubt if any Canadian official would actually do any time over it, but a fair bit of shit would still hit a fan somewhere.

#2081 Shady

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 07:12 AM

Yes, that's why the government won't do anything that might acknowledge Khadr's indoctrination. If that ever happened and worse, if it was found to have been aware of it's potential culpability, as suggested by it's order to claw back any discussion about Khadr's young age back when he was still a kid... well, I doubt if any Canadian official would actually do any time over it, but a fair bit of shit would still hit a fan somewhere.

So you're allowed to kill people if you're so-called indoctrinated? Where's that exemption in the law?
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win" - Gandhi

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#2082 Army Guy

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 10:58 PM

An extra-judicial torture/treatment put upon him because his Dad cavorted with Bin Laden and we wanted to squeeze as much information from this immature fruit bud as possible, disregarding his civil rights and UN rights?


Has it been proven in a court of law that he was in fact tortured,or his rights violated until it has how can we talk about compensation.

2. HOW CANADA’S SUPREME COURT SUBVERTED CHILDREN’S RIGHTS
Given the facts of Omar’s situation, Canada’s legislative support for human rights, and the Supreme
Court’s previous reasoning, its reversal of the order to request Omar’s repatriation is both shocking and
mysterious, particularly since the court failed to address children’s rights and the issue of torture that
figured so prominently in the Federal Court reasoning. The Court did confirm that the interrogations
conducted by Canadian officials with knowledge that Omar had been subjected to sleep deprivation
techniques signified Canada’s active participation in a process that violated international human rights
and deprived Omar of his right to liberty and security of the person guaranteed by s. 7 of the Charter. It
even found that the order to request Omar’s repatriation was an appropriate remedy. It is the reversal of
this order on the grounds that it touched on the Crown prerogative over foreign affairs that is troubling.
What does it mean to grant government officials such broad discretion to suspend the laws of Canada
with regard to a particular individual, especially when that person’s rights were violated as a child? Its
rationale for doing this was poorly explained, revealing some rather ominous cracks in what people have
generally assumed to be an enviable legal regime.

3. ACTION NEEDED & LESSONS TO BE LEARNED
Omar Khadr’s story presents the obscene spectacle of child abuse and torture committed
before the eyes of the world. The fact that the Convention on the Rights of the Child can be so
easily ignored, especially in circumstances that demonstrate violation of the prohibition against
torture, is a matter of serious concern for all members of the international community. This is
especially so in this case, where the violations were perpetrated and effectively condoned by
Canada and the United States, both of which claim to be leaders as far as democratic rights and
the rule of law are concerned. Despite the fact that the United States is responsible for the worst
atrocities, Canada’s complicity is particularly troubling because Canada has ratified the
Conventions which it’s Prime Minister and Supreme Court now choose to ignore.
The case has revealed serious institutional problems in Canada. The partisan stance
adopted by the Prime Minister and the Department of Justice with regard to one particular
individual who was a child at the time of the alleged offence is troubling to say the least. If the
arguments submitted to support government officials who have violated both international law
and the will of the Canadian people as represented by Parliament do not represent a lack of good
faith, they certainly demonstrate ignorance concerning both international law and Anglo-
Canadian constitutional history. The unwillingness of the Supreme Court of Canada to uphold the
rule of law by exercising its traditional supervisory role is even more disconcerting, especially
since the decision was unanimous and not one of the judges who have reasoned so impeccably in
previous cases bothered to write dissenting reasons. It is obvious that a great deal of advocacy
and educational work remains to be done. The Khadr case is a stark reminder that mere
ratification is not sufficient to ensure respect for international norms, even when they are as
widely accepted as the prohibition against torture and the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

My link

.... Sorry, but Omar deserves some compensation for how Canada treated him.


Yes perhaps we can put his case in front of the veterns affairs office, one of the last soldiers to submit a injury claim is in our Bn , injured during a detention of IED mounted on a donkey, during this blast he recieved injuries to his legs and lost a testicle , Dept of VA offered to give him for all his troubles 1800.00 to which he is now repealing...his case is still pending after almost a year...

But we are not talking about just 1800.00 , he will be seeking millions, because he is a Canadian citizen, who chose to fight on the wrong side of some map, again'st coalition soldiers, his rights were claimed to be violated, he has claimed to have been tortured....he has also claimed he has planted IED's and wished to kill as many allied soldiers as he could...proving he is one of Canada's finer outstanding citizens but wait it does not stop their there is an entire family of people just like em....

Who has contributed so much to our nation and to our collective....while our soldiers who all voluntered to serve our country, gladly agreeded to lay their lives down if required in that service, are being given a golden hand shake a small check, and release from one of the only things they love to do serve our country as a soldier....Justice from a soldiers piont of view sucks , but maybe we are on to something maybe we can give out huge rewards for terrorists, in hopes one day they will defend this nation as well as our soldiers did...
Proud to be Canadian...

The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees.
June Callwood

#2083 Peter F

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 12:52 AM

Has it been proven in a court of law that he was in fact tortured,or his rights violated until it has how can we talk about compensation.


Who has contributed so much to our nation and to our collective....while our soldiers who all voluntered to serve our country, gladly agreeded to lay their lives down if required in that service, are being given a golden hand shake a small check, and release from one of the only things they love to do serve our country as a soldier....Justice from a soldiers piont of view sucks , but maybe we are on to something maybe we can give out huge rewards for terrorists, in hopes one day they will defend this nation as well as our soldiers did...


The soldiers aren't being compensated because of Omar Khadr?
A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends

#2084 Army Guy

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:25 AM

The soldiers aren't being compensated because of Omar Khadr?


No they (the soldiers) are being compensated for their ( Omar buddies) "terrorist" actions taken against us and their own country men, ....You know in the service of our country defending those very rights that he has "claimed" were violated....He as an "ememy" of the state is looking at millions,for what exactly.... while those very same soldiers, "unquestioned" Canadian citizens who's families are also unquestioned Canadians who have bled for their country get a max of 250 K which is rarly paid out...Does that sound like justice...not from my end it does not...
Proud to be Canadian...

The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees.
June Callwood

#2085 Peter F

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 05:56 AM

No they (the soldiers) are being compensated for their ( Omar buddies) "terrorist" actions taken against us and their own country men, ....You know in the service of our country defending those very rights that he has "claimed" were violated....He as an "ememy" of the state is looking at millions,for what exactly.... while those very same soldiers, "unquestioned" Canadian citizens who's families are also unquestioned Canadians who have bled for their country get a max of 250 K which is rarly paid out...Does that sound like justice...not from my end it does not...

Doesn't sound like justice at all. Those soldiers should be getting 250k at least. Its entirely unjust that the government not pay what the soldiers deserve.
A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends



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