2559 replies to this topic

[g_bambino]

-Various laws in the 1949 Geneva Convention III Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War
-International juvenile justice standards
-Various international laws banning torture
-Others?

None in there indicates it is illegal for "a 16 year old individual [to volunteer] to fight".

[Argus]

First of all, do you admit that your statement:
is false?

Okay. If it's important to you to focus on something of little relevance. Sure.

Wiki:

I've already said that Wiki is not much of a source. And it fails to address the questions in the cite I posted.

You and your source (Kevin Steel of Wetsern Standard.ca) can ask any questions and raise any doubts that you want - in my mind the following FACTS are unquestionable:
1.He was and still is an an innocent man
2.He was tortured

You have no evidence to support either of those statements. Just his word. That you think the word of a stranger is 'unquestionable' is kind of odd.

And it almost looks like your mind is veering violently away from even considering the implications of why Arar, who refused to testify at the inquiry, refuses to say where he was during that time he was allegedly in Afghanistan at a training camp. Especially when he could quash all question about his innocence by doing so.

[Manny]

So do we forgive all terrorists? I think it safe to assume the majority had a similar experience, after all.
Do we let all child abusers go because they were made that way by abuses in their youth?

No, clearly not but it should be considered as part of the sentencing process, and rehabilitation.

The question it should come down to is, is this a life-long condition that's been learned, is the person a permanent threat (as might be the case with pedophiles), or can the damage be undone. Can the person be safely reintegrated into society.

[carepov]

Okay. If it's important to you to focus on something of little relevance. Sure.

I've already said that Wiki is not much of a source. And it fails to address the questions in the cite I posted.

You have no evidence to support either of those statements. Just his word. That you think the word of a stranger is 'unquestionable' is kind of odd.

And it almost looks like your mind is veering violently away from even considering the implications of why Arar, who refused to testify at the inquiry, refuses to say where he was during that time he was allegedly in Afghanistan at a training camp. Especially when he could quash all question about his innocence by doing so.

Here is my source:
http://www.pch.gc.ca/cs-kc/arar/Arar_e.pdf

Again - this commission established that:
1.He was and still is an innocent man
2.He was tortured

What do you have to dispute these facts?

[carepov]

None in there indicates it is illegal for "a 16 year old individual [to volunteer] to fight".

The way that he was treated by his captors was illegal.

[wyly]

-Various laws in the 1949 Geneva Convention III Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War
-International juvenile justice standards
-Various international laws banning torture
-Others?

of which canada is likely a signed participant so the legal battles that will result when Khadr returns will be interesting and awkward for the government...

[g_bambino]

The way that he was treated by his captors was illegal.

So says the Supreme Court. But that has no bearing on Canada beyond the CSIS interview matter, which has already been settled.

Regardless, this deviates from the subject, which is whether or not it was illegal for "a 16 year old individual [to volunteer] to fight". You said Romeo Dallaire said it was "against the Law"; but, no law seems to support that claim.
[ed.: +]

Edited by g_bambino, 27 July 2012 - 12:01 PM.

[g_bambino]

of which canada is likely a signed participant so the legal battles that will result when Khadr returns will be interesting and awkward for the government...

When was Khadr detained by the Canadian government?

[GostHacked]

why would your employer do a check after you were hired?.. background checks are done before you are hired...

Army Guy's statement still stands.

i've never done a background check but you're probably right the check will only show you were guilty...not that background checks matter at all at the time to someone who is faced with plea a bargaining situation...

And once you plead guilty to a lesser charge , regardless of your innocence, it stays on your record and can hinder you when you go look for a job.

[carepov]

So says the Supreme Court. But that has no bearing on Canada beyond the CSIS interview matter, which has already been settled.

Regardless, this deviates from the subject, which is whether or not it was illegal for "a 16 year old individual [to volunteer] to fight". You said Romeo Dallaire said it was "against the Law"; but, no law seems to support that claim.
[ed.: +]

Sorry if I was not clear earlier, the subject is not "whether or not it was illegal for a 16 year old individual [to volunteer] to fight". It is the illegal treatment/processing of Omar Khadr since his capture and Canada's inaction in addressing this issue. If I am not mistaken, all other Western foreign nationals held in Guantanamo (UK, France, Spain...) have been repatriated many years ago.

[Signals.Cpl]

Do you agree that in the handling of Omar Khadr, and other Guantanamo prisoners, some Laws were broken by the US military?

Are we talking about International laws or American laws?

Yes I agree with you - Let's do our best to hold the Taliban and other enemies accountable and try them to the full extent of the Law. BUT: This becomes much more difficult (next to impossible?) when we (the West) do not follow the Law.

How is the west no following the law? Elaborate on that, I consider the west following the law as much as possible considering that the enemy in this case intentionally uses child soldiers, does not wear a uniform or distinguishing symbols, hides within and fires from crowds of civilians using them as a shield.

Yes - let's improve the laws to ensure that they are appropriate for modern warfare. BUT: The way to do this is not to break current laws.

Any suggestions how to do this? The laws that we adhere to are the same laws that are used against us by our enemy.
us

[wyly]

Army Guy's statement still stands.



And once you plead guilty to a lesser charge , regardless of your innocence, it stays on your record and can hinder you when you go look for a job.

really I know people serving in the military who have criminal records ...

a number other variables here as well Khadr was found guilty for crimes committed as a juvenile, as a child soldier illegally detained, tortured, interrogated, with canadian government assistance, the entire process was illegal so his record will be probably be expunged when he collects his multi-million payout...as well he can and likely will get a pardon...even without a pardon there are literally millions of jobs open to him, not that he'll need them...

[g_bambino]

Sorry if I was not clear earlier, the subject is not "whether or not it was illegal for a 16 year old individual [to volunteer] to fight". It is the illegal treatment/processing of Omar Khadr since his capture and Canada's inaction in addressing this issue. If I am not mistaken, all other Western foreign nationals held in Guantanamo (UK, France, Spain...) have been repatriated many years ago.

Well, the legality of Khadr volunteering to go off to Afghanistan was clearly at least part of the subject of conversation at the point I linked to. Still, above you're talking about two separate matters. The government of Canada's actions regarding Khadr are not forced at all by the way Khadr was detained and tried by the US. Whether or not Khadr is repatriated is a matter of foriegn policy that remains a Royal Prerogative, the exercise of which the executive is accountable for to parliament, not the courts.

[Signals.Cpl]

-Various laws in the 1949 Geneva Convention III Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War

-Various international laws banning torture

He is not nor was he ever a PoW, and how was he tortured?

[wyly]

Well, the legality of Khadr volunteering to go off to Afghanistan was clearly at least part of the subject of conversation at the point I linked to.

10 yr olds cannot legally go off to Afghanistan and volunteer to go into combat training... this was his fathers doing.