Vineon

Your talking like i came up with these ideas, no sir, these were ideas that were brought forth during the last ref have you read creitien book read the paras on the ref and tell me it all lunacy, these were questions and actions our government took on our behalf, not army guy making shit up....Why would they close it's borders , because Quebec government at the time suspected Canada would use military force to prevent, or counter Quebec separation....business as usual we hope it is , but thats not what our liberal buddies at the time had planned.

I was under the impression secessionist leaders never believed Canada would use it's military force (against one that doesn't exist save the off chance of a quebec militaries defection???).

If Chrétien took some planes and other military assets out of Québec, it wasn't out of fear of them using them to counterstrike, it was out of fear of them being using as leverage for asset transfer during negociations, as in "we think we should get 25% of all federal assets, we'll keep the planes until we come up with a deal".

Your wrong both sides have plenty that they could lose, for instance if a direct land route is not secured through Quebec, how will the maritime provinces be be re supplied. this option alone is enough to have one opened via direct force. there are plenty of others. Don't ever think that our government or industry captains are beyond spilling blood in chasing down the mighty buck...Yes we talk a good game but Canadians are no different than the rest of the outside world.

Hah.

As much as I'm sure an 'Army Guy' such as yourself is excited about "spilling blood" and using "direct force" to open up a land route, it is a problem easily solved with a simple free trade agreement.

Go lock away your gun, military.

And it is a ridiculous claim when you say that a Quebec passport will be of any value when traveling abroad when compared to a well established nation like Canada/

It will carry a similar value. What do you see Québec as? A terrorist hot spot dictatorship led by a tyrant? There would be no reason for countries to look down on a Québec passport whatsoever. Just like countries of similar or inferior size manage, Québec would.

So you think that those taxes will cover defence, Foreign Affairs, loss of revenue from businesses fleeing the sinking ship(Quebec).

Yes, as these taxes already do. I also believe Québec does not proportionally need as much defense nor spending overseas which would save us money rather than cost us more money. There is no chance in hell we'd be putting 30+ and some billions for fighter jets, for instance.

Businesses will not flee as long as it makes sense for them to be in Québec. In the end, money talks. I do not believe they will do it out of spite because Québec has just become a country. What makes Québec advantageous for them today will make it just as advantageous tomorrow.

Source:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/03/19/quebec-budget-2012-2013.html

While in 2012-2013 timeframe Quebec will receive 7,391,000,000 dollars in equalization payments.

Source:

http://www.fin.gc.ca/fedprov/eqp-eng.asp

Now here is the formula:


Equalization payment=7.391 billion
Quebec Budget=70.1 billion

(7.391/70.1)*100≈ 10.54% of the Quebec budget comes from the Equalization payments... you were right, it was not 10%, it was 10.54%.

Québec's budget is 70 millions WITHOUT money sent to Ottawa. In short, that's pretty much half the budget an independent Québec would have.

Something else, you do not seem to much understand how equalization works as Québec does not receive a net 7.4 millions from it. It just so happens that Québec also pays for the equalization program, as do all provinces. At least 3.5 millions of these 7.5 millions come from Québec, which makes it an actual redistribution of 4 mils.

Equalization is only a small part of all transfer payments directly transfered from Ottawa to the provinces. Here lays the real numbers you should be looking at. When Ottawa transfers 5 bils to the Ontario auto industry, it isn't something you'll see laid down in the equalization columns.

I wouldn't bother quoting dollars and cents to a separatiste, if I were you. You're wasting their time. They are "heart" people, not "head" people. They don't think in terms of dollars and cents. They take that for granted, believing that it will be fine. They have a dream! When Vineon says that Quebec pays its own way with federal taxes, he believes that because of emotion and pride. Nothing you can show him will change his mind.

It would help if what is shown and labeled "facts" were actually facts.

Things would likely be similar to the Czechoslovakian breakup. The Czechs have economically done very well. The Slovaks are forced to survive on their newfound national pride.

It is commonly known that Slovakia has done much better since the split and is one of the fastest growing european country largely because of it.

Independence has helped them grow, it has not sunk them. They are not reduced to survive on national pride.

Yeah, mainly because most separatists don't consider that should Quebec ever separate they will lose all those nice little things that the Federal government does for them, they will lose the Canadian passport which lets them travel almost anywhere they want, they have to take over the duties of the federal government which increases cost while independence will decrease income. Suddenly faced with significant debt and a large deficit Quebec will have to make cuts in Healthcare, Education, pensions and other government services like Defence and Foreign Missions(Embassies) amongst other deep cuts to your way of life.

I didn't reply to your ridiculous long post following mine understanding the futility of it but I will to this much shorter one.

I do not see how a Québec passport would be hindrance to anyone that wishes to travel. It is completely senseless to claim a Canadian one would carry much added value.

Whatever duties taken over by Québec aren't extra expense as we already pay for them through our federal taxes.

Whatever decrease income you talk about needs to be explained and put in numbers. You said 10% in your earlier post and Québec does nothing close from receiving 10% of its revenue from federal transfers.

Oh-- you'd like to live in Lebanon2, North America?

Actually, no.

I would like to live in a place still called Québec (albeit a republic), that would still be in North America but would have little to do with Lebanon.

But Lebanon2 strikes you as a more plausible scenario, right?