Rue

Lol of course H-Jones could do nothing but name call. Not one attempt to debate. Just some name calling. Lol.

The H-Jones site still will not explain how it wants Israel destroyed. It called for Israel's destruction but to date refuses to

explain how it wants this destruction carried out.

H-Jones incites and commences threads but never finishes and responds when confronted with facts. All it can do is name call.

Here let H-Jones choke on these facts and show they are wrong:

• Israel, is the 100th smallest country in the world and has  less than 1/1000th of the world's population-yet H Jones excludes the entire world but Israel and calls for its destruction-logical alone would require we ask-why a country so small and less than 6% of the Middle East is so precious to the H Jones agenda?...

Oh wait let's ask H-Hones how a country this small in the entire world can make claim to the following:

• the development of the  cell phone(Motorola in Israel) 
• the majority of  Windows NT and XP operating systems were developed by Microsoft"s Israel site
• Pentium MMX Chip technology was created by Intel in Israelin Israel
• the Pentium-4 microprocessor and the Centrino processor were designed, developed and produced in Israe.
• voice mail technology was developed in Israel
• the AOL Instant Messenger ICQ was developed by Israel
  Israel's $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate neighbors combined
• Israel is the world leader and expert on managing airborne security threats
• Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in the world
• Israel produces more scientific papers per capita than any other nation by a large margin - 109 per 10,000 people
• Israel has the largest number of startup companies than any other country in the world, except the U.S. (3,500 companies mostly in hi-tech)
• Israel has more than  3,000 high-tech companies and startups making it the higheest concentration of hi-tech companies in the world other than Silicon Valley
• Israel is ranked #2 in the world for venture capital funds ranked only  behind the U.S.
• Israel is a world leader in medical research.

Now of course when the H Jones site comes on this forum, misrepresents military aid as welfare benefits and offers no debate other than to name call it knows the above-its real agenda is to spread propoganda to try create resentment towards Israel. If people are focused on hating Israel and seeing it as evil they won't see the technology that is actually coming out of Israel benefitting the entire world.

I once again say directly to the H Jones site: you had an opportunity to present information to show how military aid to Israel is welfare and how the US does not benefit from its alliance with Israel. You did not respond. Instead you avoided the debate and hid behind calling me a liar without making any effort to show one thing I said was inaccurate or a lie. Not once.

To date when I have asked you to explain how you want Israel destroyed you ignore me.

When I ask you to deny you are a web site of more than one person with a pro Syria, Hamas and Iran agenda you have refused to respond.

When I have asked you to disclose your political agenda you have refused.

Are you not a Muslim whose religious views of Islam believe that Israel must be destroyed violently?

Did you not choose the name Hudson Jones on this site because it sounds Anglo?

Are you or are you not the same site that once came on this board named " Bud"?

What are you afraid of.

You came to this board to propogate anti Israel hatred and anti US hatred.

Put up or shut up.

Name calling and repeating the same script over and over is not working.

Here I am. Come talk.

Bush Chaney I would think all Canadians know at least 80% of our economy is directly inter-related to US trade. It has benefits but being overly dependent on one economy is not a healthy thing either. So Harper is trying to reach out to the EEC to arrange a free trade agreement and we have a successful free trade agreement with Chile and of course Mexico as well as the US.

Sometimes we clash over offshore rights in regards to fisheries or up North as to sovereignty and access to the Northern passage or with trade restrictions on lumber, meat and other goods. Its bound to happen.

Some of us yes like to be anti American. However the majority of us are not. We would like to see less dependence on the US not because of negative reasons but healthy economic ones.

The fact is we benefit. The fact is Israel benefits. The fact is the US is not some evil empire that throws money away like idiots. Of course it expects  back mutual interests. All nations do when they trade.

Israel probably could not exist had it not been for the US. Most probably. That is why although Israel and the US have real differences at times over foreign policy Israel will always support the US push comes to shove. They are a loyal ally. Its a bond that goes right down to the average American

who time and time again in surveys supports Israel.

Eisenhower was a huge critic of what Britain. France and Israel did during the Suez canal crisis and war. So? No one doubted his loyalty with all 3 nations.

Canada has had major disagreements with the US over Iraq, Vietnam. So? Good allies have fights.

why do I say all this?  The H-Jones site is not Canadian. Please do not associate  me as a Canadian with it. No thanks.

Here let me say this again so the H Jones source can hear it-I know Americans do not want the US  in Jordan. I think it comes at a necessary

time and has defused a lot of tension and calmed both Jordan and Israel down. It gives both Israel and Jordan an assurance of a strong ally as Hezbolah invades Syria and could otherwise  feel empowered to do the same with Jordan and Israel.

Its necessary as a cool down process. Its created a second real front other than Israel's to contain Hezbollah stablizes Jordan which is petrified of a civil war in Syria and/or Lebanon destablizing its country.

Except, of course, the tone. "Come back when you have something... You might want to tell giggly..." are just the most prominent of the fountains of haughtiness and contempt.

 

If calling you out on a false claim you made about me is what you define as "semantics"; sure.

 

It is a standard which must, when circumstances require it, be met in order to prove, using evidence, reason, and common sense, that whch is true in that that conclusion cannot be successfully defeated by any rational doubt, But, again, I never said there was currently enough information to conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that the video exists or existed or is/was fake, though it is certainly more reasonable, given what we do know and common sense, to suppose it does/did and isn't/wasn't and less reasonable to suppose it doesn't/didn't or isn't/wasn't.

[ed.: +]

Woe. Mr. Bambino I respect you a way too much to make a false claim about you and you know that. Debate you yes make a false claim about you know. Nothing you said was false and I never said that. I believe you have an honest difference of opinion as to what makes sufficient evidence to draw a conclusion. No more no less. I say the same thing about  Black dog as well on this issue.

No one has made false claims or anything like that. We are debating what is sufficient evidence to be able to say Ford must go or has to go or something to that effect.

As for my comments on giggling I was serious not being contemptuous. I don't think there is anything to giggle about in the sense of one person's opinion being more valid than another on this issue.

Ease up. You know I respect you . As for Ghost he gives as good as he  takes.

Ghost I will project this on you-you hate Ford. Kapow.

^{Turkey's support of extremist Sunni Muslim factions could well alienate his own followers. Erdogan created his own problems. Not too long ago he openly supported Iran, Hezbollah and the pro Syrian cell now controlling Hamas.}

^{Now he realizes ooopsy all of these parties are engaged in a war against his version of Islam. Oooooooopsy. So much for that alliance.}

^{Please do not ask me to feel sorry for this oaf.}

^{He's been hoisted by his own pretentious petard.}

^{He should have thought about it when he was openly inciting terrorists to run the blockade off the coast of Gaza knowing that}

^{was not a solution to finding peace with Hamas the very Hamas that now supports Assad.}

^{Take a look. Just yesterday as a reformist gets elected in Iran, the Egyptian President not surprisingly who is a member of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood who wants Hamas back calls on his citizens to volunteer to go into Syria and fight the Hezbollah.Hah.}

^{You have Iranian Revolutionary Guard and Hezbollah on the ground in Syria wiping out Syrian Sunni Muslims.}

^{You have Sunni extremist Muslims in Syria from other countries wiping out not just Hezbollah and Shiites, but their own Sunni Muslims for not being religious enough.}

^{You have chaos. Absolute chaos because Muslim extremists whether Shiite or Sunni will kill anyone including their own people.}

^{The key to Islamist extremist from either Shiite or Sunni factions is that each cell's leader has their own version of Islam.}

^{Each cell leader engages in violence to impose their beliefs as to how the religion should be expressed.}

^{This means Shiite Muslims fear their own leaders and government as do Sunnis just as much as they do their enemies.}

^{This is precisely why Turks are fed up.Turks like Iranians see themselves as Westerners first. They have not embraced the kind of}

^{Islamic extremism the Iranian clergy council in Iran or the Erdogan Sunni ideologists of Turkey would have liked for their citizens.}

^{This is why Erdogan now must act brutally as his counterparts in Syria and Iran have made a history of.}

^{The difference though is in Turkey the military will not hesitate to seize back power if it has too.}

^{There is a very real possibility if Edrogan loses control as his people resist religious extremism and the support of extremism Muslims in Syria, that the Turkish military will seize back power.}

^{There is a very real if not immediate possibility of a civil war in Lebanon as Sunni Muslims in that nation are urged not to sit back and let Hezbollah continue to kill fellow Sunnis in Syria not to mention ruling them.}

^{There is a very real and immediate possibility given the increasingly bellicose statements of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood President that he will now support its wanting to take back Hamas from the current Syrian cell that controls it and he has said to his citizens feel free to volunteer to invade Syria.}

^{The only thing I will say is I am glad the US sent in a physical presence to Jordan and will keep it there. It is needed to buffer the Russian support of Syria and send a message to Russia that it is not the only foreigner that can have a physical presence on the ground in that area.}

^{The US presence in Jordan sends a clear message the US will support both Israel and Jordan physically in the event of a spread of war and opens up another front Hezbollah must watch if it feels like going on a rampage in Lebanon or inciting a war with Israel to defocus from Syria.}

Yegads I might agree with the Ghost on something.

The current uprising in Tuirkey is very interesting because Erdogan has thrown his support behind the Sunni Muslims in Syria and against Hezbollah and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard now openly fighting on behalf of Assad on the ground.Not long ago Erdogan was cozing up to Assad and Iran and Hezbollah and the Syrian cell operating Hamas and baiting Israel.Now oopsy, he has the US arrange an impromptu save my face with Israelas suddenly he realizes Syria, Hezbollah and Iran are Shiites and he is Sunni and ooopsy they don't like him.

So he puts his support behind the rebels who are in fact a gathering of many cells some atheist, some communist-socialist, others extremist Sunni Islam, i.e.,Al Qaeda. To do that he of course alienates his fellow citizens.

Turks LIKE Iranians were Westernized. You can put a leader like him in Turkey or have an Iranian cleric council put a stranglehold on Iran, but the people, of both country are Westernized. You can spew extremist Sunni (Turkjey) or Shiite (Iran) Islam at them, but the seeds of Western behaviour

are too deeply entrenched.

Iran can barely keep a strangehold on its restless population wanting to modernize and go back to being Western and rid themselves of the dinosaur age of extremist Islam.Try impose extremist Islam on Turks you will be sorry. They do not visualize themselves as religious extremists. They do not identify

with Sunni or Shiite extremists.

So now Erdogan has a problem. The Liberal moderates who put him in realize the same thing the Egyptians do about their leader-they have a bunch of rigid, inflexible dictators who say one thing and practice another.

The current Egyptian leader just came out all but calling for Egyptians to enter Syria to defend it against Shiites.

There is a civil war been Sunnis and Shiites. Fueling both are extremist Sunni Muslims and extremist Shiite Muslims and in between are a simply enormous range of Muslim peoples some religious, some not so religious, some fed up with religion, all fed up with corrupt politics and bankrupt economies all wondering how much longer the Muslim v.Muslim violence goes on.

See in this equation the attempt to blame the US or Israel falls short. Neither country sides with anyone. They find extremists on both sides equally

as problematic. What will most probably happen is we face a civil war in Lebanon, a possible military coups in Turkey,a reform movement springing out of yesterday's election in Iran all adding to the combustion in Syria.

Hamas extremists backed by Syria face an Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood who want Hamas back and Hezbollah and Iran out of Syria, the Gaza and Lebanon.

Now the US is in Jordan and there to stay which makes Israel and Jordan happy and Putin furious.

Putin has shown his true colours as a supporter of Shiite extremism as a convenient way to keep his own Sunni Chechnyan Muslims and other Muslims at bay.So has China. China and Russia with their own internal Sunni Muslim problems thought allying with Iran was away to buffer these Muslims.

Hasn't worked. They face even more uprisings now in their own nations as everyone becomes angry as Iran and Hezbollah lose their grip.

Make no mistake there will be another civil war in Lebanon and Jordan and Israel are gritting their teeth worrying about getting sucked in.

The move by the US into Jordan is badly needed. It was a necessary move to offer stabilization to an area and present a real concern for Hezbollah to watch itself on its other side.

Israel will not get involved in Syria but if anything spills onto its borders-look out.If it goes back into Lebanon because of Hezbollah violating its borders,all bets are off.

Erdogan has to cool it. This is not a time to have his military throw his butt out and it will if he does not cool it. The Turkish military is pro Western,pro US and barely tolerates him. Israel has strong allies within the Turkish senior military command built from years of working together before Erdogan was around.  They both share an equal concern as to any extremism. So does Jordan. Those three nations are at best reluctant allies but their existence

is precarious without cooperation.

Man oh Man, Sudan, Egypt, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Iran, Turkey, Afghanistan, Pakistan the Muslim populations in China and Russia, not to mention Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, Mali, all capable of blowing up in a second. All gripped with inter Muslim factional disputes.

And we have not even mentioned the Philippines, Indonesia and Kashmir.