PocketRocket

Let me start this off with I think society is well..stupid. Not the people in society, just society in general.
Just giving a warning, I have a radical different view then most, but if we all thought the same, then none of us would really be thinking at all.

My favorite author once said "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity".
I tend to agree with this, but do not place myself above any of my fellows. I have said and done stupid things in the past, and probably will again in the future. All of us have done the same.

where do i begin. lets start with the war on drugs.

Okay...

I fail to see any pros to keeping any drug illegal, yes even heroin.

(I clipped the quote for sake of brevity)
I would tend to agree with this, for most of the reasons you've cited.

k, what next...how bout the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Okay...

I know a lot of you are going to call me crazy for this but it's what I believe. I do believe 9/11 was an inside job.

I don't buy into this. While I believe that Bush et al were aware that something big was about to happen, and I base this on the fact that most Washington VIPs were told not to fly on 9/11, I do not think that Washington and-or the CIA actually engineered the fall of the towers. The internet has led to a huge proliferation of conspiracy theories, and those that buy into such theories. I simply do not buy into most of these. You choose to do so. Your prerogative.

Please if you disagree don't call me stupid, just explain your view. There are many reasons why I think this, but the most obvious is world trade center 7 collapsing. It was not hit by a plane and collapsed at free fall speed.

I don't recall the tv show I watched which debunked this train of thought, but having a fairly good grounding in science, I found nothing they said on that show to be out of order.
(Notice I haven't called you "stupid" or any other names yet??? So far so good:)

I would encourage people to look up operation northwoods. It was a plan for the CIA to commit acts of terrorism on US cities to create public support to go to war with Cuba in the 60's. Kennedy rejected it. That being said, I think the war in Afghanistan has no merit, neither does the war in Iraq, or the war on terrorism in general. Over a million Iraqis have died since the war started, mostly civilians, and the US is still trying to justify the war. This also leads to a bigger problem, a corrupt US government. Have people not noticed that the US has become fascist. It is no longer a nation ran by and for the people, it is a nation ran by and for the corporations. You think this would be obvious with the recent bailouts.

I think a lot of this is over the top. Corporations have lobbies, which are a big deal in US politics. Saying the country is governed solely for the sake of those corporations is taking it too far. The fact that those corporations do have the money and power to put forward powerful lobbies does have a great deal of influence.
That being said, great influence has also been put forth by ordinary people acting in groups to protest various issues. To some degree, it balances.

i would like o add another thing. How come when someone straps a bomb to their chest and blows them self up and kills people it's considered monstrous and inhumane but when we use missiles to kill people it's not monstrous and inhumane???

To me, at least, I despise attacks against innocent bystanders, whether they are committed by military or insurgents.
As for attacks against military targets, I consider such acts to be underhanded, but not nearly as despicable as bombings of nightclubs, churches, mosques, or any other civilian target.

Ok, now lets start talking about the economy.
It's a giant ponzi scheme. It's designed to get the rich richer. 2% of the worlds population owns over 50% of its wealth...50% of the worlds population lives on less then $5 a day. We've put man on the moon and yet we still haven't solved poverty. Why do people think it's ok for billionaires to fly around in private jets and have every luxury while there is a growing number of people who live on the streets and are constantly looking for food. Is it because money says its okay for that to go down?

(Clipped again....same reason)
For sake of efficiency, if nothing else, there has to be some sort of agreed-upon currency. In fact it could be argued that civilization needs a currency to survive. Very few people will do something for nothing.
If we go back to the barter system, then only those who produce material goods will have anything to live on.
Even so, there will always be some with the smarts to wheel and deal and come out on top of their fellows.

As a question to you, how would you propose a modern infrastructure would be maintained without some sort of economic regulatory system in place??? Who would pay for roads, schools, water and sewer systems, etc???
What would keep companies in research and development without money??? How would there be any forward progression in technology, medicine, etc???

Isn't it ironic that freedom isn't free.

Freedom has never been free.

I really don't see the point of money, I think we need to go on a resource based economy. Instead of us all competing, we could work together, i know i know, it sounds crazy...man working together. We would finally solve poverty because well, nobody would be poor because money doesn't exist. We wouldn't need stupid copyright laws or patents, man are those stupid.

This I dispute. If I write a song, and am able to make some money via sales of that song, I feel I am perfectly entitled to protect this claim, that the song, as intellectual property, belongs to me.
If I invent a device which can make your life nicer, I should be able to reap some rewards for coming up with the idea.
OTOH, if you were to write a great story, one which could easily sell gazzillions of copies effectively making you rich, then why should I have any right to share in your profits??? I can certainly enjoy the story you've written, but what gives me any right to profit from it, or to feel that I should be able to enjoy it for free???

O yes, H1N1, almost forgot. who got the shot?

Not me, but not for the reasons you've cited.

Please don't tell me the media propaganda got to you. We have to change the way we look at health. We're looking to medicine to get us healthy, medicine has nothing to do with getting healthy. Nutrition is the key to health. Disease is caused when cells are either getting too many toxins or not enough nutrients.......

I view medecine's role as that of damage control, rather than preventative. Medecine itself, I agree, should not be the preventative measure. Our own common sense and good habits should fill that role.
However, "sense" is not common. See my comment above regarding the power of human stupidity.

I still got a lot to say but i'll wait to see what you guys have to say.

Well, my friend, there you have it.....what I have to say in reply to the points you've posted so far.

Anyway although I try to buy Canadian, its getting darn near impossible. Went to a clothing store recently and EVERY SINGLE ITEM was made in China.

My solution is simple. I frequent second-hand stores when shopping for clothing and most consumer goods.
The items I buy may be made in China, but buying them 2nd-hand virtually guarantees that the money I am spending on the product stays in Canada, and in most cases right here in my local area's economy.
For those things that I must buy new, I try to go to locally-owned shops/stores/franchises first.
Big box stores are not even on my radar.
Costco, Wal-Mart, Future-Shop, Bestbuy, Home Depot, etc never have my shadow darken their doors.
Actually, that is untrue. I did once go into a Wal-Mart.......to return a DVD-player I had been given, which I promptly replaced with another, far better one, which I bought at local 2nd-hand store.

That's it, that's it.

I declare men are hopelessly shameless. They up to no good.

I wonder who and where are the good men?

For years I've said (in a tongue-in-cheek way) that there are two kinds of men in the world; those who admit to being pigs, and those who are liars.
I've always qualified myself as an honest pig.

SHWA: I'm just checking in here briefly as I have to leave shortly to go to work, and so do not have the time to type out a long post.
But I wanted to say this much, that was a GREAT post. Possibly the best I've seen from you to date. Instead of calling me silly names and making personal attacks (well, a couple LITTLE ones, but what the heck....), you've brought up a lot of great information.
This is what I'm looking for. Information. I never claimed to know everything, and I'm always willing to learn.
I'll look into the data you've posted when I have the time (I work a short week, but my workdays are VERY long hours), and will reply accordingly. But in the meantime, you've given me more to think about.
Good job. Keep it up.

First off, Griz, this is, I believe, our first exchange of views.
Before I start I want to say this is a great post. You got all your points across respectfully. You addressed my post intelligently, and without any personal attacks.
If all posters behaved this way, this forum would truly be a pleasure.

....Which has evolved over the years, and continues to do so. But this hardly touches on day-to-day living. The friends I spoke of earlier have gone through their lives taking, quite literally, no notice of anything in the act, but have been smart enough to avail themselves of the advantages provided for them by the act.

There are many FNS people who live off reserve--75% in total. Some FNS have done very well, others struggle. Some may actually visibly appear FNS while others don't. It is my belief that it is a personal issue one that is far too senstive for some to even discuss. I don't know who your friends are, but my "hats off to them" if they know how to fair well in different situations in the white and indian world. Please don't try to make an assumption on the impacts of the Indian Act because in many situations it is sad.

My hat's off to them, too, as I made plain in a earlier post.
Regarding my assumptions on the impacts of the act, you're absolutely correct. Obviously it's impacts are felt differently by different people, and I have to agree that I cannot judge what those effects may be on all those different individuals. My error was in seeing several successful transitions from reserve life to the mainstream, and drawing broad conclusions from them, a mistake I'll try not to repeat. I accept your correction. Good point, well spoken.
I'm getting some education here, from you as well as others, and I appreciate information which is new to me.

I always said, if the Indians have it so good on the reserve and whiteman virtually holds all the political power, than why don't they just make everything into a reserve? And create the White Act and the Federal Department of White Guy Affairs? This will give you all the so-called benefits and privileges of being an indian. I still find it interesting that people bitch about all the so-called riches and money that reserves have yet there's all that poverty and 3 rd world conditions. What the hell is wrong with you people? This ties into my propagande a points...what you see and hear in the media and reality are 2 different matters

"The White Guy Act". We have it already, it's called the Constitution.
As for the department in charge, it's called Parliament, and as departments go, it's pretty sad .

As for the media, that is where I've got most of the negative information about reserves. On a few CBC news programs which spring to memory, there were investigations into many reserve-based problems. Everything from lack of good water, housing issues, sewage issues, substance-abuse issues, etc etc etc.
Most of the information on reserves that I get from the media reflects only the negatives. I cannot recall a single news or affairs program that came out saying "reserve life is wonderful", only the contrary. So, from that viewpoint, at least SOME of the "propaganda" has actually been in your favor.

My point was not that this land was "vacant", the point was that in a time of colonization and expansion of empires, SOMEONE was bound to come here and set down roots. In a land with no organized government or military, it was bound to happen. Spain and Portugal had already taken South and Middle America and were working their way north, bringing their violent, genocidal version of Catholicism with them.

Here you suffer from what historians call "present-mindedness." There's no way of knowing what "may have," or "could have," or "should have happened" so don't even go there.

The same could be said of those Native people who claim their lot in life would be better now if the white man had not come. We can speculate based on how history has unfolded elsewhere, but if you want to leave that aside, then I will happily concur. I see we'd both rather discuss issues than sling mud or deal in "might have beens".

All your points, definitely show ethnocentric bias and examples of how the education system has created brainwashed individuals in this society

Your comments also show ethnocentric bias. In as earlier post, you point a finger of guilt at "Whitey". If that's not biased, I don't know what is.
So both of us are guilty of that crime. We cannot help it, either of us. We are raised in a certain environment, indoctrinated with everything we've seen and heard all our lives, and at this point we must muddle through to find the best answers we can.
But being intelligent beings, we can both LEARN.
You've taught me some things here. I hope to learn more.
Hopefully I can bring something new to the table for you, too.

And do you seriously think they would have held off the troops if there had been an actual order to attack???

The saddest part of the Oka crisis to me anyways, was when Mohawk women and children and elders were crossing the Mercier bridge and were pelted with rocks as the cops and army watched.

Agreed. I saw some of that clip well after the fact, and it pissed me off royally. In fact it made me feel ill. It's one of the few times I've been ashamed of my countrymen.

As for the army part, no they probably wouldn't have been able to take on or hold off the troops, and some people believe they were trying to get the Mohawks to fire first so Canada could say they went to war with the indians and won

Taking the high ground. Good job. I've seen some argue that the Mohawk warriors could have held them off indefinitely.
Luckily, both sides showed admirable restraint under very tense circumstances. I don't think I have the self discipline to have stood there amongst the brave men on both sides and kept my cool.
I can't speak to the thing about trying to get the Mohawks to fire first, but I'm very glad it didn't turn into an all-out shooting war.

You seem to have totally missed the word "misguided", which I used in that paragraph.
"Trying" whilst using means which are not appropriate is still "trying". Hence the word "misguided".
"It's for their own good". People actually believed themselves when they said that. Arrogant bastards, I'll grant that, and the type that provide the pavement for the proverbial road to hell.


Why does everyone on this board take everything at face value, and in such stark black-and-white ways??? I made it plain at the beginning of this post that I was posting for sake of debate as the post I addressed had been begging, literally, for rebuttal for several days, and yet been left untouched.
As an individual I am far more open-minded than most, and am more than willing to educate myself further on any matter which I enter into.
I would say that the most progress could be made by people from BOTH sides of the debate who are also willing to look at the issue FROM BOTH SIDES.

I commend you on this and when you learn the truth, please spread your new found land oopps I mean newfound knowledge to the conservative narrow minded little kid thinkers of this world

Ooops??? I don't think that was an "oops". LoL. I understand your need to take at least one shot, and that one was pretty mild.
Seriously, I think both sides need to communicate more. Perhaps that would de-polarize the entire issue, and allow progress to be made. If two people like you and I can do so on a grass-roots level, then maybe there's hope for both nations after all.

This is another example of how hatred is spread against indians on some bogus propaganda. Yes there is funding but it is not easily accessible to all who want it.

Next time I'm faced with that fallacy, I'll be happy to de-bunk it.

There is a lot of favortism in bands and if you're not on the chiefs and councils' "favorite-list" then your out-of-luck.

So nepotism is not a whites-only disease. Nice to have some common ground. To bad it has to be something like this.
According to some research, it doesn't just stop with favoritism, but extends to election fraud, thievery, blackmail, and fraudulent misappropriation of funds originally earmarked for medical care, which end up as very fancy fixtures in some Band Chief's bathroom.
Sad, that. Playing politics with peoples' lives is bad enough. Stealing, quite literally, their health care simply so you can have a fancy toilet to sit on is beyond despicable.

In another thread I asked posters whose names start with "A" "T" "D" etc to discuss the first 12 years of "free education" given to all Canadians...not a peep from them. When one looks at all the negative crap created from false pretences and accompanying BS, in the forms of racism, discrimination, etc from so-callled professionals like some teachers, professors, doctors, cops, politicians etc ect the indians have paid dearly for all this so-called freebies on the reserves

At no time did I ever deny that Canada's Aboriginal People have got a raw deal.
What I HAVE done is questioned whether things are as bad as some make them out to be.
I've also pointed out that in some cases, in some issues, there were more causes than the presence and/or laws of the white man.

Whatever. Griz, you and I seem to have found a starting point here. I'd appreciate further discussion, further education, and more importantly I'd like to see a discussion looking into possible solutions to many of the existing problems with the relationship between Canada and her Native people.
Thanks again for a great reply.