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Zeitgeist last won the day on October 7

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About Zeitgeist

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  1. I read a Royson James (Toronto Star GTA columnist) column yesterday that called Cherry's comments a kind of racist "dog whistle", as though Cherry was consciously trying to rouse white supremacists everywhere. While I was sympathetic to James' comments about how minorities have had to endure racist and biased language since the beginning of our shared history, and Cherry's "you people" was yet another example, James' characterizations of Cherry didn't ring true. As we all have, I'm sure Cherry has unconscious biases, especially as he comes from an older generation, but I don't think he was consciously attacking visible minorities. Was he calling out immigrants in general for not wearing poppies? Yes. Was he right to do this? He shouldn't have generalized his comments to an entire group of people. I think back on how Cherry used to complement P.K. Subban on his play and snappy wardrobe. Cherry never referred to colour. He did used to attack the European style of hockey, which he considered soft. No doubt Cherry has a bruttish old school aspect, but that's part of his bombast. He's a colourful character. It's sad to see how those two words, "you people", inappropriate but somewhat open to interpretation, can undo the career of someone who has done a lot for hockey development in Canada, including for women and Indigenous. How quickly it is all dismissed by someone that uses such charged metaphorical language as "dog whistle", which wouldn't be familiar to someone like Cherry in the context James used. Was it worth it to fire Cherry and lose Coach's Corner? Are the vast majority of hockey fans happy with this result? Is it really an improvement on social cohesion and race relations? I think it would've been better to have a national conversation that involves Cherry and to hear him explain his thinking in dialogue with his critics. Instead we're using expulsion, which can lead to bigger problems.
  2. Never be ashamed of your faith and ethnic/cultural background. You have much to be proud of in your Jewish heritage and I say that as a Catholic. There are good people in all faiths and good atheists. As long as our beliefs don’t promote hatred or lead to hateful acts, we shouldn’t worry. The bigger aim is love and understanding between all peoples. Easier said than done, but your reflectiveness well positions you to navigate intolerance, both from the anti- Semitic and among some Jews. I see the same extreme elements in all faiths and among some atheists. Thankfully they are in the minority. I think dialogue is helpful. I’m sure you planted a seed with Steve that will make him reconsider his views down the road.
  3. So you stand by your statement that all white males are racist. Wow. That’s all I need to know about you. If any employer knew about your beliefs you would be in serious trouble. I didn’t used to think people like you really existed. Now I see that you’re part of a dangerous trend.
  4. Your claim that white male behaviour is racist is a racist generalization about all white males. You don’t see the log in your own eye. I often disagree with Taxme and see racism in his remarks, but at least he knows what he is. You fail to see your blatant bias and racism. I’d rather have the likes of Don Cherry in my company than someone with your views, yet there are many people like you in positions of authority causing grief. It’s a real problem.
  5. What are you talking about? “Milk and honey” is a reference to the Land of Milk and Honey, the Promised Land Moses tried to enter in the Old Testament. Nothing to do with racism. I used to think that generally the right was more ignorant than the left, but I’m seeing far too many counter examples to ignore.
  6. But you could do worse then supporting the Empire. Much progress came through the Empire that can’t simply be discredited because of colonialism. People generally do the best they can. When they know better they do better. We outgrew the Empire and we’ll outgrow today’s social mores, but that doesn’t mean we throw out the laggards and ignore their good qualities. In fact it isn’t always clear what constitutes progress. There are different opinions and people change their minds. All the more reason not to throw away people with different points of view who aren’t perfectly woke, as if there’s a clear consensus on what woke is.
  7. I think the main reason for this assault on Cherry and all public figures, especially elderly ones, is this strange new idea that disagreeable opinions must be shouted down and the speakers themselves extinguished. The problem is, when we’ve removed all of the unpolished, who is in charge of this sanitized asylum? Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it, a society run by cowards who don’t value anything except avoiding controversy. At that point there is nothing left to extol except the superficial. We become nothing more than consumers of beauty, a more sophisticated form of porn addict. The virtue of hockey is the innocent joy of learning and playing a game that is accessible to the community. In Canada it’s the frozen over pond hockey rink or street ball hockey game. Heroes came out of that shared experience, including war vets. What I hear from Allen’s comments on The Social as well as from the public shaming of Cherry is a repudiation of this Canadian experience. Coach’s Corner is dead. What will replace it? ET Canada? What’s happening to Canada? Trudeau’s countless apologies have hastened this new social condition that makes it next to impossible to revere Canada and the figures who built and fought for it. Instead we are fed a steady diet of shaming and told Canada represents colonial genocide. Yet even Trudeau can’t meet these standards of the forces he empowered. In fact no one can. The starters of the revolution must too be sacrificed. There is no end to the purification because no one is perfect. This and climate change are the sticks that will chase every citizen to the grave because only death prevents further crimes and injustices from being committed.
  8. That’s why I don’t really think the issue is immigration in terms of hard working people entering Canada from a wide range of cultures. The issue is cultural and economic adjustment, both for newcomers and the settled population. When immigration happens too fast in certain areas of the country, the strain on services and the growing pains of absorbing so many newcomers are genuine concerns. Toronto and Vancouver are the prime examples. ESL levels in schools become too high to manage with existing resources, newcomer populations can tend to remain isolated in ghettos, transportation and housing infrastructure can’t keep up, and high home prices climb higher. The changes are simply too fast and furious to accommodate, and that’s without considering the real possibility of cultural conflict that can arise through lack of understanding or resentment over the increased sharing of resources. That has nothing to do with skin colour and only relates to religion/culture if the cultural beliefs of the newcomers are incompatible with the rights and freedoms supported by our laws and institutions.
  9. Actually no. The 613 laws and the Ten Commandments of the OT were essentially reduced to two commandments in Christianity: love God and love thy neighbor as yourself. In Judaism many rabbinical studies and texts that interpret the Torah have provided nuanced interpretations that over time demonstrated a more progressive morality than what came before. Religions evolve. The first universities were religious institutions and now modern science is influencing morality. Religion was the original science. It’s all historic record of humanity’s understanding of the universe and the implications, moral and otherwise, of living within it. Some people have decided that science contradicts faith and have discarded religion. Others believe that science and faith are compatible. That’s fine. Most religions have far more in common with each other than differences. We do the best we can to understand what’s going on. Just don’t forget that our democratic institutions were built on the collective wisdom of centuries old traditions. Be careful about how dismissive you are about those traditions, as many of our rights and freedoms today are predicated on them. I have far more faith in the evolving collective wisdom than the radical forgetting of a supreme leader or truth defining political party. That’s why the Catholic Church and many institutions move slowly, because once something new becomes accepted practice the genie can’t be put back in the bottle and the consequences are far reaching. Secular society in a democracy can move more quickly, yet the pendulum often swings back and forth as practices that once made sense are deemed retrograde or obsolete. As a general rule I follow the moderates. Hesiod had it right in 700BC: “Moderation in all things.”
  10. I don’t think people like Jacee realize the real and lasting hurt that firing someone like Don Cherry causes. While his choice of words was poor, it didn’t warrant that treatment. The truth is that nothing he said was especially hurtful to anyone, but we’re definitely in a culture of catching people out. Jacee revels in this without realizing that this isn’t about left versus right but rather about decency. Does your grandfather always use perfect language? Do your friends for that matter? Do you? It’s fine to be upset with people, but termination shuts down dialogue, prevents growth and understanding, and ultimately breeds contempt. Is that the kind of Canada we want? Cherry may need to do better, but so does Sportsnet.
  11. Christianity, its antecedents in the Old Testament, as well as much Greek philosophy, are the main sources of all that’s progressive in modern western civilization. All of the best wisdom in this and other fora are mere derivative breadcrumbs of a much greater tradition of canonical wisdom. Until you recognize the cultural envelope in which you live and the canonical works that built it, your slamming of these traditions comes across as ignorant. Most humanist atheists would still agree that these traditions have had tremendous influence. These traditions have been argued over and used to justify war, but they have also been tremendously civilizing forces. Much of what we value about our free open tolerant democratic society wouldn’t exist without these influences.
  12. It's very clear through your leaps of logic that you can't handle the truth of my remarks. Why do you think I'm white? Clearly you haven't read my many commentaries on inner-city poverty, jerrymandering, and racist court practices, especially plea bargaining in many U.S. states. You hear what you want to hear. The truth is that Cherry is calling out a failure to respect the soldiers who fought to protect the peace we have today. "You people" is a poor choice of words because, at worst, it's a reference to recent immigrants. Is there anything wrong with ascribing some blame for the disrespect he sees towards vets to people who recently came to Canada? Why is that wrong or racist? He said that it isn't a matter of race or colour when he clarified that "you people" could be Scots, Irish, or English people as much as anyone else. You hear what you want to hear. My defense of Cherry rests in the fact that we are so fast to throw out a man who has become a central figure in a great Canadian tradition, Hockey Night in Canada. He may not have all the current perfect "woke" graces, but clearly he has shown good graces and respect for many groups in the past. He has also done great charity work. The ageism on here is clear, especially from you. I wonder how you would feel being put out to pasture. As for all your psychology jargon, you'd be surprised at how far modern medicine has progressed. I'm sure you can find suitable meds to support your needs. Also, you lost the right to invoke the Golden Rule in support of your arguments when you equated Christianity with homophobia Remember that? When you have finally extinguished all the heroes and cultural traditions in the name of your particular form of socially engineered politically correct puratinism, don’t ask for protection when the next generation of cultural revolutionaries decide that you’re no longer relevant and need to be sacrificed for the greater good Cherry’s dismissal on Remembrance Day is part of the same cultural wave that brought you euthanasia and campus speech shaming. More people think that Cherry shouldn’t have lost his job than those who think his comments warranted firing, but those voices are drowned out by the fringe Canada is ruled by the special interest fringe. Don’t worry Jacee, the people will continue to swallow your bs We’re all trying to pay the bills and are scared to take up the cause of resisting in case we upset the puritans.
  13. I do think that if free speech isn’t more highly regarded and if Canadian traditions and icons like Cherry are dismissed to appease recent immigrants and media that can’t wait to pounce on any political incorrectness, it will be harder to justify holding Canada together as a country, especially if business interests see too many costs/regulations and the population feels overtaxed in the effort to pay off/appease special interests. Economic challenges will only exacerbate the frustration, as we’re seeing in Alberta. It might be easier to walk away and start over. Quebec is so full of contradictions, supporting Bill 21 even as the Premier throws Cherry under the bus. At a certain point the federal effort to reconcile provincial exceptionalism with some greater national purpose might be too hard to pull off if that purpose can no longer be articulated or garner enough public support. If Alberta and Quebec no longer see the economic and cultural value of Confederation, I certainly don’t want to see Ontario left holding the bag. Maybe Ontario would be better served charting her own course without paying out the rest of Canada. I don’t like a Canada that disposes of a man like Don Cherry because of a politically incorrect statement, nor will I be watching the watered down pablum that Sportsnet serves in its new Hockey Night in Canada without Cherry.
  14. Don Cherry is a connection to so many great things about the country, whether it’s Bobby Orr, Doug Gilmour, community hockey, or veterans, this guy bleeds maple syrup. The guy who fired Cherry should be fired. I hope there’s an outpouring of support...
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