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joan

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Posts posted by joan

  1. Well, I learned long ago that our governments lie to us. What I haven't learned is why I should believe Six Nations!

    Just because one side is bad does not automatically mean the other is good. They can both be bad.

    You don't have to believe Six Nations. You just have to learn about Canadian law: Treaty law, Constitutional law and Common law, in that order of precedence.

    Regarding current issues, this is the critical part of Constitutional law (Sec 35):

    http://www.lawsonlundell.com/resources/TheCrownsDuty.pdf

    Recent case law from the Supreme Court of Canada (Haida and Taku) has confirmed

    that the Crown has a duty to consult, and if necessary, accommodate Aboriginal interests

    when it has knowledge, real or constructive, of the potential existence of an Aboriginal right or title

    and contemplates conduct that might adversely affect it.

    If you read it carefully, it is clear that the Crown (in this case the province, which is also responsible for the municipalities) must address Six Nations concerns PRIOR TO permitting any development on the disputed land. That has not happened. Ontario is evading the law.

  2. Kite to pull ship across Atlantic

    Beluga Skysails at dockside (pic: SkySails GmbH & Co. KG)

    The technology is aimed at cutting CO2 emissions

    The world's first commercial cargo ship partially powered by a giant kite is setting sail from Germany to Venezuela.

    The designers of the MS Beluga Skysails say the computer-controlled kite, measuring 160sq m (1,722sq ft), could cut fuel consumption by as much as 20%.

    They also hope the state-of-the-art kite will help reduce carbon dioxide emissions, as it tugs the ship.

    Fuel burnt by ships accounts for 4% of global CO2 emissions - twice as much as the aviation industry produces.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7201887.stm

    Very cool! ;)

  3. It always seems to be those who have no land and pay no taxes who are so weepy and nobly willing to sacrifice on behalf of the poor aborigines.

    The land goes back. What an idiotic simplification of a hideously complex issue. Are you willing to give the natives a few hundred billion dollars, impoverishing the rest of us in order to assuage your bleeding heart? I'm not. I didn't take any land. I bought what I own. Any native that wants it can come and try and take it the way our ancestors took it from theirs.

    Buyer beware! There is a lien on your property that the government didn't tell you about! :lol:

    All Canadians know we live on native land. It is no surprise to anyone without their head in the sand.

    I own property. I know it is theirs. If they want it (which isn't likely), I will sue the government to recover my investment. It is the government that broke the law by selling land it had no title to.

    It truly is as simple as that: If you default on payment for your property, you lose it. Same goes for Canada: If it is proven the land was improperly obtained, or was not paid for, ownership reverts to Six Nations.

    I expect they will be generous with us, though, if we are nice to them, but the govs keep being nasty, which is pretty stupid!

    - There also is a Supreme Court ruling that says settlements will "balance" the interests of both parties.

    - Alternate land can be substituted.

    - Willing seller/willing buyer

    It is quite doable, and it will be wonderful to have things finally made right, imo.

  4. I don't want his personal info, I don't even like Keng. I just want to know if you are telling the truth or if you are misleading us. If you would mislead us about something so simple like how you know keng, what else would you mislead us about? And I don't want to discuss other boards...just a simple forum url will suffice.

    You are not allowed to post a url for another board on a forum, and I will not reveal kengs personal information to you because you already have it. Get over it. I could not care less whether you choose to believe me. You have a rigid ideology and refuse to learn anyway. You are hateful.

    hmm ... maybe he is trying to get away from you. :lol: Well, dislike him as I do, I would never sic a cyber-stalker on him either.

    back to topic please, aho. You are of no interest to me.

  5. Nothing like that. TI'm actually more interested where you and him post. Now on this board there are rules which I'm sure you already know, and one of them is to be prepared to back up claims you make. You have claimed that you know Keng from other forums. Great, where do you know him from, Joanie?

    I am not at liberty to divulge his personal information, cyber-stalker. <_<

    Now will you please stop derailing the thread with your asinine demand for personal information that cannot be divulged. Suffice it to say that his identity is obvious, as is yours considering your obsession with him.

  6. May know? I would think if they had a child murdered they would know, wouldn't you?

    I'm sure if there is evidence the wheels of juistice will turn, If there's no evidece ......I'm sure that won't stop the activists from spreading their lies and propagance to extort more guilt money.

    Well, pig, your hateful comment deserves no response, so this is for other more intelligent and less hate-filled people:

    They would know only that their child didn't come home with the other children. They were never told that children died:

    http://www2.anglican.ca/primate/hutchison/.../2007-03-28.htm

    Many did not return to their homes and families for years; others died at the schools and their parents were never told of their deaths.

    I believe the Anglican Church is insinuating that it was government policy not to tell parents their children died. That policy sure gave the pedophiles and psychopaths a clear path! But that was the governments purpose, imo.

    Ethnic cleansing has many tentacles.

    I suggest, however, that you not derail this thread any further.

    The topic is "Christmas songs", or lack thereof.

  7. Really. So these are secret boards then?

    Why are you so defensive, Joan.

    Well "Dancer" perhaps you are not aware of the courtesy of not discussing other boards on this board.

    Why is kengs so important to you?

    Why is it so important to you to know where else he posts?

    See? You could be cyber-stalking him! And I would be helping you if I told you what you ask, which is a very discourteous request anyway. Besides, you don't need to know because you are always right there with your nose up his butt anyway! <_<

    :lol::P:lol:

  8. Well that account doesn't really match anything I've heard before about the bridge. Reading it is almost like reading a story invented for children, happy ending and all. This is what I mean when I say continuously changing childish reasons are given for such behaviour. It's also the reason I cant accept anything First Nations say at face value. My ex was part Algonquin (one of my ex's, I've got a few), I actually got to see the thought process in action on a personal level when her relatives and friends would visit. And yes, mention was made sometimes about how to obtain more money and power, nothing about righting historical wrongs. Just another reason why I have zero respect for these people. Their behaviour has certainly done nothing to sway my opinion lately.

    The media never has the true story because they never ask for it.

    People who believe the media coverage of Caledonia don't really know the truth about much at all.

    After some initial attempts to work with the press, Six Nations gave up because there was no objectivity only bias in our media. So ... consequently you don't get the whole story from the media, only half. It is good for people to keep that in mind.

  9. The crime is a crime of genocide. We can take them to court.

    Do you have names, dates place of death and where they are buried?

    Their families may know. However, most were buried in unmarked graves and their recodrs may have been expunged (who knows).

    Strangely, the churches have not been very forthcoming with that information yet! (Imagine that!)

    However, formal requests are being delivered, have been delivered in Vancouver already. 30 days for the BC Catholic church to respond.

    Yes Canada does have a law against genocide ... now ... albeit as watered down as they could make it: Only since 2000, 4 years after the last residential school closed (Imagine that!), despite an obligation to do so outstanding to the UN since 1948.

    But we are off topic.

    I was just expressing my EXTREME disdain for kengs claim that Canada is a 'Christian' country, and explaining in no uncertain terms why I object so strenuously: I see the Christian churches as extremely evil and corrupt and far beyond redemption.

    I will never accept that argument, and I will never accept religious indoctrination/imposition in any secular public school. We fought hard to get rid of it.

  10. Who is the "they" in "their land"? Before Europeans came to North America, the First Nations fought amongst themselves and one band would take land and property as the spoils of war from another; what you would describe as "stealing." Given the ratio of pre-colonial population to land mass, most of our resources come from land that never "belonged" to anyone.

    The oppression of the natives by the greedy white man is mostly the creation of guilt ridden cultural cringers too politically correct in mindset to state the honest truth.

    I beg to differ:

    The land theft deal referred to in this film (below) occurred in the 1990's. The deaths of children in that school were and are denied by the United Church to this day, but they happened as they did in every residential school. And it was and is all about the land and the resources that we steal from their land every day: billion$ ... every day ... and they get nothing. "The oppression of the natives by the greedy whiteman" is not only true in history, it is still true today ... every day.

    http://www.hiddenfromhistory.org/#LiveContent[thevid]

  11. I would think it better be a small part.

    kengs pontificated that ". I am a historian, and if I would have bothered to study history only in relation to a narrowly defined topic like First Nations, I would be able to derive the thruth of the matter, rather than approach it with an agenda like she does."

    So he admits he has not studied it in detail and admits he doesnt know.

    But then goes on to say "My concern with this issue has always been the distortion and fabrication of history that is being done primarily by members of the Six Nations for political reason"

    But he admitted he does not know yet he can ascertain that it is all "distortion and fabrication."

    Not to mention of course "Your own lack of knowledge on this subject, not to mention historiography in general, is demonstrated by the manner in which you flippantly dismiss my arguments"

    Maybe, just maybe there were dismissed because you have admitted you did not study First Nations?

    Signed,

    One who never gets into historical arguments.

    just fyi: 'kengs' knows a lot more about white supremacists than he knows about natives, about whom he makes a point of not learning anything. He likes his prejudices too much. <_<

    The story of the bridge is an interesting one, told to me by an elder while it was still burning. (btw, it has been found to be salvageable and will be rebuilt): The story is this: That is a historic old bridge, an original route to Caledonia for the Six Nations people. They valued their 'private' entrance to town: It made them feel welcome, and that was its original purpose - a special link between Caledonia and Six Nations. However, a few years ago it needed fixing and the County Council refused to fix it, so it sat there unusable, and a sore spot for Six Nations people. Burning it was not intentional: It caught fire from the vehicle blocking the railway tracks. Hopwever, once it was burning it was a source of some merriment for them on a day when merriment was in short supply. The elder also mentioned that his grandson was tasered 4 times by the OPP that day.

    Screw the town: They didn't want the bridge or the good will that went along with it enough to fix it, so screw them!

    imo :P

    Hey kengs ... where is the rest of your usual list of Six Nations 'misdeeds'? You have forgotten quite a few ... or perhaps you are mellowing now that you are banned from town? :P

  12. Land doesn't change anything. The thing that is lacking is the ability to function properly in the modern world because they are hung up on certain issues and perceived historical wrongs. There are people in this country who have gone through hell and back, whose ancestors were persecuted and never have or ever will receive any compensation for it, who don't allow this from participating fully and functionally in Canadian society, contributing to it rather than trying to destroy it. I have no sympathy for people who refuse to succeed because they perceive everything around them, all knowledge and education, to be the product of "the white man".

    If land doesn't change anything, then you have no problem recognizing their land rights, correct?

    Land changes everything because it makes them no longer dependent on Canada. It has value that can be turned into self-sufficiency, and opportunity for population and economic development. Leasing it back to us provides income, for example.

    Land is the key.

    You don't know anything about them. You never even spoke to a native person to truly find out their perspective. Of course, they won't speak to you anyway. Why would they? !! <_<

  13. Who is the "they" in "their land"? Before Europeans came to North America, the First Nations fought amongst themselves and one band would take land and property as the spoils of war from another; what you would describe as "stealing." Given the ratio of pre-colonial population to land mass, most of our resources come from land that never "belonged" to anyone.

    The oppression of the natives by the greedy white man is mostly the creation of guilt ridden cultural cringers too politically correct in mindset to state the honest truth.

    Wrong. Don't believe your governments. They lie to you.

  14. Canadians who also hold Dutch, Swedish, Thai, Jamaican, Australian, British, Spanish, Lesotian, Belgian, Norwegian, Belizian, and a host of other countries' citizenships have sworn allegiance to a foreign monarch. But, I digress. Of course we wouldn't want our military members giving fealty to the monarch of a foreign state. Thank goodness, for you and me, they don't. Or, did you miss the "Queen of Canada" part of the oath?

    I think we are coming to a time in our history when we will have to truly grapple with this. Many Canadians, new and old, object to swearing allegiance to the Queen, often a symbol of colonialism and oppression. As the challenges rack up, there will be a need to reconsider our 'colony' status.

  15. Yes, Canada is a Christian country in many respects; it was certainly founded with Christianity as the only religion, and Canadians still adhere to a worldview that is heavily influenced by Christianity. Christianity is, incidently, the one true religion, and therefore it's in Canada's best interest to maintain its Christian heritage.

    If Christianity is "the one true religion" I know why I am not religious!

    "Christian" churches killed thousands of children in the residential schools and destroyed the lives of tens of thousands more.

    How is that consistent with your "Christian" values?

    'Christian values' make me puke, because they are entirely hypocrisy. Churches bend to power and money, and support the corporate culture of greed and superiority. THAT is what Christian churches are about!

    Don't tell me Canada is 'Christian'. There is no requirement that Canadians be Christian, nor even have to respect Christianity. Christianity has done plenty to earn the disrespect and disgust. Defend it if you want to, but DO NOT TRY TO IMPOSE THE MURDEROUS HYPOCRISY THAT IS 'CHRISTIANITY' ON ME !!

    I am Canadian. I am not Christian nor will I ever be, and I have a better chance of immortality than most 'Christians' who always seek to impose their beliefs on others (a violation of the Charter Right to freedom of religion.) Canada is NOT a Christian country in ANY sense of the word.

    Take your religion and SHOVE IT! It's disgusting.

    Imposing Christian celebrations on those who don't want them is oppression.

    imo

  16. Nope, the gov't can pay any price it wants. The 100 billion paid to the natives over the years is payment enough.

    No it isn't. We take billion$ in resources from their land PER DAY, EVERY DAY

    Canada would not exist without stolen resources: Our economy is ENTIRELY dependent on them.

    ************************

    I am copying this anonymous book review here about the same book this thread is about. I believe the authors intent has been misinterpreted here, and this review gives another perspective (bold added):

    Dances with Dependency

    Indigenous Success through Self-Reliance

    by Calvin Darrell Helin

    http://www.spiritorca.com/home.shtml

    If this is out of line or I'm not qualified to comment, then please delete this.

    I've not always been the most sympathetic towards the native community because I saw them as dependants on the system, always looking for what the government could do for them.

    I knew that they suffered great misfortune, and still do, and I dismissed this as a toxic fixation on the past, and ignored the effect on the people and the community. I didn't realize how damaging and divisive this was to the native community.

    This book made me see that the indigenous peoples had a strong, organized, and religious community, before we arrived. I mocked that before but I now correct that. It also made clear that the evil and paternal nature of trying to absorb natives into Canadian culture is wrong. To put it in the proper perspective, Canadians are part of native culture.

    The gyst of the book is that that natives have huge economic potential, a rising population an need for a solid industry that keeps the money that they get from the feds in their community, more that any casino or rental condominium ever could. Native communities stand to succeed a great deal by recognizing this potential, educating and using their people. By recognizing the problems and moving to their own solutions, natives can break the cycle of dependency and take control of their future in a positive, dominant way.

    just fyi.

  17. First Nations governance, governments and laws are all subordinate to Canadian government, governance and Criminal Code.

    If violence and extortion are occurring, the Ontario government has a duty to end any that occurs in their jurisdiction. If they can't or won't, the feds should step in and end it. The rule of law is hierarchal and the basis of our mutual safety in this country. We will not be ruled by hooded thugs.

    if some people think otherwise, they can challenge it from prison.

    fellowtraveller, you are under the same mistaken impression as many Canadians, including perhaps our governments, that the Band Councils actually represent all of the Indigenous people, but they don't. In fact, only about 5% ... that's right 5% of Indigenous people across Canada support Band Councils.

    You see, Band Councils were imposed by force, at gunpoint in some cases, and traditional governments and spiritual practices were outlawed in Canada: People were thrown in jail for singing, dancing, drumming, praying. At Six Nations, for example, in 1924, Chiefs and Clanmothers were removed from the Council House by the RCMP with force, at gunpoint. The Council House and private residences were searched (trashed) and the wampum belts signifying Six Nations treaties with Canada were STOLEN. (What does that tell you?)

    If 1924 seems a long time ago, think about this: The first person I spoke to at Six Nations told me emotionally that his grandfather was removed from the Council House with a gun to his head. It is not ancient history.

    People don't forget what an aggressive colonizing oppressive country like Canada has done to them, and continues to do. They want nothing to do with our governments. They have their own traditional government as they have had for thousands of years.

    Canadians who still believe our governments are benevolent toward Indigenous people are pulling the wool over their own eyes intentionally: Our economy is entirely dependent on resources from their land. They are, effectively, a captured, oppressed population and their land and resources is being continually stolen from them. If not for these stolen resources, Canada would not exist.

    The first step to resolution of these issues is education and recognition by Canadians that our governments mislead us: Canada has no authority over them except by force. What does that make us?

  18. No, I don't think you're reading what I wrote properly. I am a historian, and if I would have bothered to study history only in relation to a narrowly defined topic like First Nations, I would be able to derive the thruth of the matter, rather than approach it with an agenda like she does. She can't be relied on to present an accurate history of this issue because of the agenda she has. My concern with this issue has always been the distortion and fabrication of history that is being done primarily by members of the Six Nations for political reasons. I know nothing that I argue can make you understand this because you yourself have demonstrated that your only means of understanding this issue is from a subjective, pro-Six Nations perspective; and whatever ideological basis you have (communistic, anarchistic...). Your own lack of knowledge on this subject, not to mention historiography in general, is demonstrated by the manner in which you flippantly dismiss my arguments. Needless to say, I doubt you can present any credentials that makes your opinion on any historical issue worthy of consideration.

    woulda-coulda-shoulda ... who friggen cares! :P

  19. This land claim fiasco is ridiculous.

    The government can call whatever it did expropriation, and if the natives want land they can buy it like the rest of us.

    If they get their land claims, then I should get my mineral rights.

    When the government expropriates land they pay for it. What if they never did?

    The land goes back, that's what.

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