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Posts posted by kactus

  1. 17 hours ago, Rue said:

    Your response is disjointed.

    My folks were scattered and had no nation like China. We were not the majority population on the planet, did not use a centralized government to create trade imbalances or sell contaminated meat. We were however like Chinese people today  visibly different. Our virus was  the collective guilt of the murder of Jesus. Their cross to bare is covid 19. 

    China's government  has made its citizens a world target for hatred unless and until it demonstrates openly a willingness to apologize and clean up its markets. 

    If it does not mount a pr apology offensive and make acreal effort to crack down on wet market practices China may alienate the very people it needs to have goodwill with to sell to.


    Out of every 4 person on earth one speaks and looks Chinese. You cannot undermine China nor the influence they have demonstrated in the sphere of buying large companies and setting investments in all western countries. They have the buying power as they have demonstrated time and time again. A large economy like china which exports literally everything to other countries on earth does not have to apologise for anything.  What do you want to happen putting sanctions on them post Covid.19? It ain't happening. We are dependent on their goods.

    Btw this is not a reflection of my view on China or the way it treats its own citizens. It’s just expressing the fact that an economy twice the size of Japan with such big population cannot be dictated with rhetorics nor stopped...

  2. 35 minutes ago, Rue said:

    Yes and no to your comments. Stopping spread does not mean it ends the virus unless the reason for stopping it is because of an immunity wall not a physical distance wall...which is why you need exposure through a vaccine if you do not allow it to naturally transmit. Stopping a virus by isolation is like damming water but the water continues to build up. You have to release the water or it bursts out from accumulated pressure. I disagree with the type and amount of isolation not its purpose. I get your points though.

    By the way the worse a virus is the less likely it spreads, the less serious it is, the faster it spreads, so its mutating like sars did  while it did make it harder to treat also made it easier to stop since it became very hard to spread.  Either way we die.

    That is what happens with viruses.

    I think we are trying to resist inevitable rules of natural evolution of diseases through transmission just as we ignore and have grown out of touch with many other concepts of nature. We are obsessed  with trying to prevent natural movement or progression of life processes instead of learning to let them travel through us not around us.

    Our approach to medicine is often one of trying to postpone transmission  rather than let it pass through us because we think we can send basic rules of nature.

    I contend we do this based on our fear of death and wanting to postpone death rather than accept it.

    Pathologists and immunologists as well as oncologists have a different approach to viruses but they all know you can not hold back any virus it will go where it's destined to go until it finds its natural course of mutated resolution no different than you and I live, evolve, then die.

    The reason for this postponement is because for years governments have invested in nuclear arms forgoing investment in medical research and NHS. That fear is deeply rooted in the knowledge that even the best NHS system cannot cope with the vast spread of the virus across the whole population inevitably resulting in higher mortality rate. Especially, where limited testing is still being carried out in many countries. That’s why there are the strict measures on social distancing...

  3. 1 hour ago, Rue said:

    But the problem with vaccines is that "it takes so long to go from the potential vaccine to the animal model to the types of clinical trials [needed], and there's only so many steps you can cut out without jeopardizing safety," Cioe-Peña said. And so a vaccine isn't going to help with the spread of the virus in epicenters right now, he added. "

    For new vaccines, scientists need to assess the potential side effects of the drug and weigh the risks on the sample of people tried, which is what makes it time consuming....

    • Like 1
  4. 1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

    Apparently, even with all the locking things down, refugees are continuing to just walk into Canada at the Quebec border as we speak, lol

    On another note though, I find it quite surprising that the level of spread of this virus is quite low in war zone areas like Syria with refugee problems. You would expect the magnitude of the spread in those regions showing a much higher proportion of people catching C.19. 

  5. 20 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

    Why are you listening to this idiot ?  The US is not nationalizing industry - there's no evidence of that.  They bought GM and sold it - at a profit - for awhile.  

    Why are you listening to this no-name rando ?  Did you lack a father figure growing up by any chance ?

    There's a lot of fake news around capitalising on this god damn virus....

    • Thanks 1
  6. 10 hours ago, Rue said:

    Argus the KNOWN cases get reported. This means many more have not been. If anything this means the fatality rate is lower than what it appears to be because of that. Deaths will show up healthy recoveries don't, they don't even get reported.

    I do not think that's the way they calculate the mortality rate during an outbreak.

    The mortality rate is based on the number of cases reported and does not take into account unreported cases.

    Although this may not be an accurate representation (as in the case of Italy) where mortality rate is far higher suggesting there are many more asymptomatic cases unreported.   

  7. 15 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

    Should be noted that it's not just old people in the hospitals on ventilators

    What is happening in Italy is that they are having to triage now, taking the ventilator away from the oldest, in order to try to save the younger

    So the old people are being disconnected first, that's why they are dying first, but those ventilators are being used on younger persons to keep them alive

    Given the numbers and the lack of the proactiveness from the italian government I am not actually surprised. Italy is a lesson for other western government not to repeat the same mistake. Fortunately with the WHO emphasis on "test" "test" "test" The UK and other western governments have stepped up the gear discussing with manufacturers to increase production of ventilators. Macron announced 300bn euro injection into the economy. Delay phase strategy has already started.

  8. 19 hours ago, Rue said:

    No they will not. Try use common  sense. Old people and immune compromised people do not automatically die when you catch a cold or flu. Immune defficient people and the elderly live daily with the reality of catching an infection from far more than the Corona virus. Think just once.

    This virus has not changed a damn thing. It is just another. It is not special. The best way to deal with a  virus if it's not serious which this one is not is in fact to let people catch it and get over it.

    One of the things known about this virus is that elderlies with weaker immune system can die from this disease. It affects their lungs and the whole body can shut down. It is not the best way for this group of people to catch the virus and “get over it” as many countries now including UK advocates elderlies to stay at home. Covid.19 is not a cold or a flu and old people with existing condition have died from the disease. Infact, the data on mortality rates amongst 70+ is much higher worldwide, which does make this group vulnerable.

  9. Panic+ignorance is a combination that has caused mayhem for the government.

    Well, when you have a government that states we have the worst health crisis for generation and you are going to lose families and loved ones and on the same statement mention and by the way we are not banning school closures and mass gatherings do not get surprised when football bosses make their own decisions to postpone/ cancel  matches. People get panicked and swamp supermarkets stockpile on staple food, toilet papers to the point of rationing.

  10. 25 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

    Yes - this is not a 'flatten the curve' approach. Flattening the curve means preventing it from spreading in the near term.

    Thanks for clarifying. Still not sure how flattening the curve can be achieved when mass gatherings is not yet banned by the government in England. Surely that will not prevent it from spreading.

  11. 3 hours ago, Rue said:

    No no and no and try educate yourself on what a virus is.



    I never claimed I was an expert in the area. That's why I put a question mark in my post if you had paid attention as I am really interested to learn more.


    To start with all a vaccine is, is the virus. How the hell do you think it works. They give you a mild exposure to the virus to build up immunities in your system to fight it. The only way to have your body deal with a virus is to build up its immunity system so it can beat the virus.

    I never said anything to contradict this.



    Most viruses, the vast majority, we have a natural ability to fight. When we do not have clear stats on the actual amount of people with the virus, the fatality rate will always seem higher and that is because hundreds and thousands have the virus and never report it because they never get sick from it.


    That may be the case with Italy as we know that many people had the virus for some time but did not report it. But we know the symptoms for Covid.19 Coughs, Fever, difficulty breathing, etc?  



    Next there is no such thing as "herd immunity". That is your twisted and incorrect misunderstanding of what a vaccine is or what exposing people to a virus that is not dangerous means.

    Here's the definition of herd immunity. It is a formal term. 


    1. the resistance to the spread of a contagious disease within a population that results if a sufficiently high proportion of individuals are immune to the disease, especially through vaccination.
      "the level of vaccination needed to achieve herd immunity varies by disease"


    My point of contention was that there is no vaccination for C.19 virus so exposing people to a virus that mutates can potentially be dangerous. This was the case with the second wave of Spanish flu when the virus mutation resulted in more deaths. There are a lot that is unknown about C.19.



    You are panicked thinking this virus will kill you. You are hyped up from over amplification on your cell phone and internet of the subject matter and your lack of awareness and understanding of what a virus is.


    I never said I am panicking....I said older people with pre existing conditions catching this virus to build immunity are more predisposed to die from it.


    To repeat again, this virus will not kill you. It is only of concern for people with compromised immunities and even then it of course does not and will not kill  ALL people with compromised immunities. No statistic is showing that. You have no clue when people die why they have died. Certain bacteria piggy back on a human when we are sick and have no immunities. You have no idea whether the human who is sick would have been exposed to those bacteria and died of them whether they had the virus or not. Many times the piggy backing on makes the bacteria show up faster but it does not mean the bacteria would not have shown up anyways virus or no virus, something you clearly can not conceive.

    Again I use the example of the virus in Spanish flu once mutated resulted in more deadly wave. We don't know if C.19 will mutate but I merely asked the question in my original post. So don't shoot the messenger....






    Flattening that curve will mean compromising the health of elderlies or people with pre existing conditions that will inevitably put a strain on NHS as you suggested.

    4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

    I think it means the opposite.


    How so? Isn't it the case that the elderly's immune system with pre existing condition is already compromised and they are more vulnerable to die from the virus? The British government has explicitly said in a statement that UK has entered a delay phase to help ease the strain on NHS until summer. In doing so, he wants people to catch to virus and become immune to the virus. The elderlies are vulnerable and will die in the process. My point is that whilst the objective is to flatten the curve a lot of of elderly people will lose their lives. 



  13. On one hand you have panic 

    9 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

    It's all about flattening the curve of cases so that the healthcare system isn't overwhelmed.  If people having flu-like symptoms stay home and contact their regional health authority or Telehealth, they can receive direction as to whether testing is necessary, how to get it, and how to proceed with treatment.  New testing centres are setting up shop and in some cases testers are visiting homes.  I'm sure there will be many situations where people feel symptoms, stay home, and make a complete recovery without setting foot in a hospital.  In some cases these people might not get around to the testing until they have recovered, which is okay if they are staying completely isolated at home and others are bringing in the essentials until recovery. 

    The initial worry as we adjust to these measures puts some pressure on the system as people call in.  The wisest move for everyone who hasn't felt symptoms of C-19 is to avoid large gatherings; maintain social distancing (approx. 2 meters); hand wash frequently, especially after touching public surfaces; and keep hands away from your eyes, nose and mouth.  If the vast majority of people abide by these measures, including 14-day self-isolation for those returning from international travel, we will see the numbers settle down, even if there is an initial surge in cases as testing ramps up and we become better able to identify cases.  Seeing the numbers settle down means the system can respond to the needs.  We will see more online communications in a number of areas.  Eventually people will return to the public sphere, including schools and public transit, but with much more careful health hygiene and social distancing. 

    The opportunity:  For those who interpret C-19 as symptomatic of a more crowded and unhealthy world with mismanaged problems, such as climate change and wage inequality, this may be the time to consider major policy initiatives.  Some people feel that our society has been too hard to sustain, not just environmentally but in our workplaces and lifestyles.  Maybe big growth shouldn't be the focus.  We need to manage the economy better.  Perhaps a universal basic income will be necessary, as long as there's still incentive to work and standards of living don't significantly drop.  I think we can have good social policy and a greener economy, but that will take expert, data-based policy.  Politicians have to give more air time to the technocrats, share the facts, ensure the public is well informed, and let everyone weigh in.  We can have a more direct democracy and more responsive government/services through technology and better policy.  We can build more complete communities, provide greater equality, improve the workplace and the environment, and improve overall health and wellness.  

    Flattening that curve will mean compromising the health of elderlies or people with pre existing conditions that will inevitably put a strain on NHS as you suggested.

    I am actually wondering as to whether the ‘herd immunity’ idea will immunise antibody and save lives for those affected? But what if the virus further mutates? Given that there is no vaccination available for C.19 this would be quite concerning...

  14. 51 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:


    Medieval Europeans and Asians had been living in squalor for centuries before the Black Death appeared. Why in 1346?

    I am not condoning the behaviour. Just pointing out if there is a validity in linking eating bats or (mosquitos as rue has pointed) with Coronavirus. I cannot answer that as I have no appetite on feasting on these scavenges but those that do have apparently done it for years and I question if the argument is valid

  15. 25 minutes ago, Rue said:

    True. Its probably a false rumour like everything else all kidding aside.

    I am just a bit pead off rue....It frustrates me with our own government so relaxed about this pandemic and do as politicians do by shifting the blame on somebody else. Trump has proved time and time again that he dies not have the ability to remain truthful and changes his stance whichever way the wind blows...

    I am really curious to understand from fellow Americans on this forum how Trump plans to support small businesses in the face of this pandemic.  

    No country including the US can sustain their economy by closing their border to other countries.

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