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The Six Nations and Crime in Ontario


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Rue, it would be wise not to take this story at face value. It has been kicked around this board for a while and no one yet has provided any real proof.

It started off with a claim that "Girl pushed off a bridge! Here's the video!" Then when you watched the LOONNG video you realize that you never actually see a girl falling, or injured, or anything but but a protester shouting to the camera.

Then when someone asks why they never heard this story in the media we're told that "It's a coverup!"

Seems like mere propaganda to me.

Anyhow, you're welcome to make up your own mind, of course.

Wild Bill, you need to do some research on 'systemic racism'.

W NEVER hear the truth about our government's actions against Indigenous Peoples. If you want the truth, you have to go looking for it. The government won't tell the truth. The police won't tell the truth. The media won't tell the truth.

We all know that we have a lot to lose to their legitimate land claims. Is debt to another jurisdiction a good excuse for a sustained campaign of racist propaganda? Or should we perhaps be trying to work things out amicably since we all have to live here?

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While Joan and Charter I deserve the wet blanket I still believe this does not reflect on the military. Idiots come in all shapes and sizes. Now I will shaddup I am just making matters worse when I am trying to assure a genuine soldier he has nothing but respect from me just as I respect you and Charter.

I think you are all honourable. These things you talk of are not. The depraved hyena who giggles at you over it is another story.

No I do not believe it reflects on the military. However, their lack of response to it does say something.

I am not anti-army or police. I support the troops, the police, etc., most of whom do their jobs well. When they don't, though, it is a travesty. However, it is the response (or lack of) from higher ups that I question.

I don't know if any of you watched the Senate hearings about RCMP Commissioner Zacardelli, but I'll tell you it was both extremely distressing and disheartening, and encouraging at the same time. Zacardelli lied his face off, twisted words, told partial truths, etc. His next in command called his bluff, called him a liar, and all the officers in the crowd guffawed in agreement. It is a case of "the front line is ok but the management SUCKS".

However, I believe that kind of corruption does filter down to the 'line' and gets imitated there.

The soldiers at Oka were far out of line. We were told nothing about it. I wonder if the girls had died ... would we have been told that either? I doubt it.

It is not the people, it is the systems that are ingrown and corrupt, and all still carrying on the same way they did in the 20's 30's and 40's when Canada's ethnic cleansing campaign was in full swing.

Only the OPP have had a wakeup call.

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The documentary film is called 'Rocks at Whiskey Trench' Rue. It is available free online. Make sure you see part one and two.

No I do not believe it reflects on the military. However, their lack of response to it does say something.

I am not anti-army or police. I support the troops, the police, etc., most of whom do their jobs well. When they don't, though, it is a travesty. However, it is the response (or lack of) from higher ups that I question.

I don't know if any of you watched the Senate hearings about RCMP Commissioner Zacardelli, but I'll tell you it was both extremely distressing and disheartening, and encouraging at the same time. Zacardelli lied his face off, twisted words, told partial truths, etc. His next in command called his bluff, called him a liar, and all the officers in the crowd guffawed in agreement. It is a case of "the front line is ok but the management SUCKS".

However, I believe that kind of corruption does filter down to the 'line' and gets imitated there.

The soldiers at Oka were far out of line. We were told nothing about it. I wonder if the girls had died ... would we have been told that either? I doubt it.

It is not the people, it is the systems that are ingrown and corrupt, and all still carrying on the same way they did in the 20's 30's and 40's when Canada's ethnic cleansing campaign was in full swing.

Only the OPP have had a wakeup call.

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Rue, it would be wise not to take this story at face value. It has been kicked around this board for a while and no one yet has provided any real proof.

It started off with a claim that "Girl pushed off a bridge! Here's the video!" Then when you watched the LOONNG video you realize that you never actually see a girl falling, or injured, or anything but but a protester shouting to the camera.

Then when someone asks why they never heard this story in the media we're told that "It's a coverup!"

Seems like mere propaganda to me.

Anyhow, you're welcome to make up your own mind, of course.

You obviously didn't watch the movie. They took the woman out of the water with a broken hip where she was slammed into the abutment after being thrown in their by a soldier. During Oka Waneek-Horn Miller (16 years old) was also stabbed by a soldier's bayonet. We're talking about two clear cases where soldiers exercised force against women who were absolutely no threat to them.

Nah, it was just the lunatic actions of a bunch of army misfits doing what they are trained to do...beat up defenseless women.

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You obviously didn't watch the movie. They took the woman out of the water with a broken hip where she was slammed into the abutment after being thrown in their by a soldier. During Oka Waneek-Horn Miller (16 years old) was also stabbed by a soldier's bayonet. We're talking about two clear cases where soldiers exercised force against women who were absolutely no threat to them.

Nah, it was just the lunatic actions of a bunch of army misfits doing what they are trained to do...beat up defenseless women.

Sorry, but excessive force being used by soldiers at times in these kinds of situations is commonplace, so your constant bleating about this is really not going to stir much sympathy who are not as naive as you. The fact that this is all that happened (I doubt the story about the 14 year-old girl(s)) does speak to the resolve of the soldiers, as it was a tense situation where things easily could have gotten out of hand. And let's not deny the fact that the Indians were trying to push the situation to the brink; that's how it always is--they're always trying to work the situation so that they can make themselves out to look like the victim. I'm not sure what difference it makes what gender the stabbing victim was; I seem to recall the women making a big deal about how they were defenders of the land and were deeply involved in all of the posturing. So one of them gets injured and suddenly it's "violence against women" oh, the poor, frail, helpless woman has been victimzed by men yet again? Give me a break.

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Sorry, but excessive force being used by soldiers at times in these kinds of situations is commonplace, so your constant bleating about this is really not going to stir much sympathy who are not as naive as you. The fact that this is all that happened (I doubt the story about the 14 year-old girl(s)) does speak to the resolve of the soldiers, as it was a tense situation where things easily could have gotten out of hand. And let's not deny the fact that the Indians were trying to push the situation to the brink; that's how it always is--they're always trying to work the situation so that they can make themselves out to look like the victim. I'm not sure what difference it makes what gender the stabbing victim was; I seem to recall the women making a big deal about how they were defenders of the land and were deeply involved in all of the posturing. So one of them gets injured and suddenly it's "violence against women" oh, the poor, frail, helpless woman has been victimzed by men yet again? Give me a break.

They were 14 year old girls.

Go back in your hole, eh? :rolleyes:

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I support neither the troops or the OPP when they use guerrilla tactics against women and children. But I guess that what happens when you put guns in the hands of outcast misfits soldiers and psychotic and racist paramilitary police forces.

This strikes me as a bit over the top, charter.

just saying ... :blink:

It's about bridges, not guns.

holitoot! :unsure:

chilax! B)

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You obviously didn't watch the movie. They took the woman out of the water with a broken hip where she was slammed into the abutment after being thrown in their by a soldier. During Oka Waneek-Horn Miller (16 years old) was also stabbed by a soldier's bayonet. We're talking about two clear cases where soldiers exercised force against women who were absolutely no threat to them.

Nah, it was just the lunatic actions of a bunch of army misfits doing what they are trained to do...beat up defenseless women.

Hmm ... a bit harsh, perhaps, but a point well taken that there certainly is a problem with that.

I hope the public and police (OPP2006) reaction is changing that ... Nobody wants that,

except maybe sicko predator types, of whom even one alive is one f*predator too many, imo. ;)

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Rue, it would be wise not to take this story at face value. It has been kicked around this board for a while and no one yet has provided any real proof.

It started off with a claim that "Girl pushed off a bridge! Here's the video!" Then when you watched the LOONNG video you realize that you never actually see a girl falling, or injured, or anything but but a protester shouting to the camera.

Then when someone asks why they never heard this story in the media we're told that "It's a coverup!"

Seems like mere propaganda to me.

Anyhow, you're welcome to make up your own mind, of course.

I appreciate your comment W-Bill. I appreciate to some of you I sound very naive. Problem is I know quite a few warriors and I know they are honourable people and respect the military and they do what they do based on what they feel is a moral obligation and they do not disrespect Canadian soldiers or the military code and many of them served in the US military and Canadian military and their link to these militaries is well known.

Now as for the particular story I will just shaddup W-Bill. I know many people have their own agendas. Its just I do know some honourable people on both sides of the equation and they are both getting equally as screwed by the feds on this iz all I am saying.

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It is an interesting little story Rue, but just a story.

One point the Zealots miss is in reference to bayonets. We don't use them. Bayonets are issued for ceremonial purposes, parades and such, not for actual operational purposes. Especially not within the confines of Canada.

http://www.rrj.ca/issue/1991/summer/125/

From behind the tarpaulin, Mohawks-and a band of renegade journalists who have ignored army pressure to clear out-watch the shadows of soldiers fixing their bayonets for the first time since they replaced the Surete du Quebec (the provincial police) 17 days ago. Major Alain Tremblay, commander of C Company of the Royal 22nd Regiment, yells, "I'm not going to fuck around here. I have a military job to do, and I'm going to do it," and orders his men to "lock and load," a euphemism for "prepare to fire." Harry Oakes, an Akwesasne Mohawk known as Beekeeper, orders the Warriors to do the same. Then, as quickly as it starts, the confrontation stops. Robert Skidders, a 53-year-old American Mohawk known as Mad Jap, tells the Warriors to cool it. And they do.

This incident erupted less than 24 hours after the retreat-on orders from the: army-of a couple of dozen reporters, photographers and camera operators to a vantage point behind a shoulder-high wall of sandbags half a kilometre from the firing line. Lieutenant-Colonel Pierre Daigle explained that journalists "were simply getting in the way." But the journalists behind the wire stayed there in defiance both of the army and the example set by their more compliant colleagues. They were determined to provide an independent version of events in the Mohawk camp. Without them, as it turns out, the Canadian public would never have known what really happened the night the Oka standoff nearly became a shooting war-the time that came to be called the Night of the Bayonets.

Edited by joan
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It is an interesting little story Rue, but just a story.

One point the Zealots miss is in reference to bayonets. We don't use them. Bayonets are issued for ceremonial purposes, parades and such, not for actual operational purposes. Especially not within the confines of Canada.

I call bullshit.

Journal of Military and Strategic Studies, Winter 2008, Vol. 10, Issue 2.

CARRYING THE BURDEN OF PEACE: THE MOHAWKS, THE CANADIAN FORCES, AND THE OKA CRISIS

P. Whitney Lackenbauer, Ph.D.1,

"The Oka Crisis was replete with images of the military with fixed bayonets being pushed and punched, with numerous efforts from the hostile crowd to wrestle rifles from the soldiers' grasp. However, short of the use of force by rifle or bayonet, the military was hard pressed to effectively prevent attacks on its formations or individual soldiers." Major (now Colonel) Bernd Horn

7 September Tempers flare at Kanesatake following a breach in the wire created by the Warriors, and rock throwing by the Mohawks. The CO orders the troops to fix bayonets until the situation is brought under control. The following people remain in the T.C.: 24 Warriors, 5 patients, 9 women, 11 children, 6 negotiators, and 23 journalists.

The Armed Forces used their bayonets. One stuck Waneek Horn-Miller, a 14 year old girl.

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It is an interesting little story Rue, but just a story.

One point the Zealots miss is in reference to bayonets. We don't use them. Bayonets are issued for ceremonial purposes, parades and such, not for actual operational purposes. Especially not within the confines of Canada.

I did bayonet drill. My cousin during bayonet drill poked the CSM, who in a moment of bravado encouraged himto put more into his effort. He went awol for a few days but his father, who he feaered more than the CSM convinced him to go back.

He got punished for the awol and forgiven for putting more effort in his drill.

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Me too.

Citation please

http://www.rrj.ca/issue/1991/summer/125/

This incident erupted less than 24 hours after the retreat-on orders from the: army-of a couple of dozen reporters, photographers and camera operators to a vantage point behind a shoulder-high wall of sandbags half a kilometre from the firing line. Lieutenant-Colonel Pierre Daigle explained that journalists "were simply getting in the way." But the journalists behind the wire stayed there in defiance both of the army and the example set by their more compliant colleagues. They were determined to provide an independent version of events in the Mohawk camp. Without them, as it turns out, the Canadian public would never have known what really happened the night the Oka standoff nearly became a shooting war-the time that came to be called the Night of the Bayonets.

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Me too.

Citation please

But life for Waneek has not just been a series of sporting competitions. She first made headlines when she was involved, at age 14, in the Oka crisis in the summer of 1990. She was stabbed in the chest by a soldier’s bayonet. The wound was mitigated because the bayonet blade was deflected off her sternum but a serious scar remains.

Waneek Horn-Miller

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But life for Waneek has not just been a series of sporting competitions. She first made headlines when she was involved, at age 14, in the Oka crisis in the summer of 1990. She was stabbed in the chest by a soldier’s bayonet. The wound was mitigated because the bayonet blade was deflected off her sternum but a serious scar remains.

Waneek Horn-Miller

So she's a candidate for a Darwin award...using her sibling as a shield.

...morons

Edited by M.Dancer
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She didn't do such a thing. She got caught in a push by the Armed Forces and some yahoo gutted her.

I have read 3 different accounts now. She was certainly on the wrong siode of the line and all accounts have her carrying her baby brother. This is just plain stupidity.

A contemporary report would be needed to throw better light on an alledged event 18 years old.

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I have read 3 different accounts now. She was certainly on the wrong siode of the line and all accounts have her carrying her baby brother. This is just plain stupidity.

A contemporary report would be needed to throw better light on an alledged event 18 years old.

Right. Blame the victim. That tells me a lot about where you are coming from.

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Right. Blame the victim. That tells me a lot about where you are coming from.

I don't know if I would blame a 14 year old.....her mother is certainly certifiable allowing her daughter and baby to be in the midst of criminals and hoodlums.

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I don't know if I would blame a 14 year old.....her mother is certainly certifiable allowing her daughter and baby to be in the midst of criminals and hoodlums.

There were no criminals and hoodlums there. Like the Six Nations occupation of the DCE lands, there were mothers, grandmothers children and old men that took over the site. The Warriors showed up when the Army did, as a counter response to the aggression.

During this particular melee when Horn-Miller was injured, the women with small children were being evacuated and the Army was attempting to push them back. It was the Army that got out of hand.

Why can't you accept that some of our soldiers acted badly? Do we need to bring up Somalia to prove to you what they are capable of?

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Interesting backtracking going on here!

"You are lying. It didn't happen. We don't use bayonets."

(Yes it did)

"Well then she must have been in the wrong place."

"She shouldn't have been carrying her infant brother."

Ya right, and that is why she was bayoneted, to teach her a lesson for carrying her infant brother. Sure. yay soldier!"

I am curious what other flimsy excuses people can come up with. <_<

Fact is ... our governments have been only too willing to use brutal force against elders, women and children if they are Indigenous people and they dare to challenge Canada's oppression and theft and fraud. It is our governments who order force, our governments who are desperately trying to cover their criminal tracks.

AND despite your lies and made up excuses, YOU ALL KNOW IT'S TRUE!

You also know that they can bankrupt us, and obviously we are all concerned about that.

However, the appropriate way to deal with it is to be truthful and humble.

But our governments choose to continue their arrogant and criminal charade.

Edited by joan
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