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The Six Nations and Crime in Ontario


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Why can't you accept that some of our soldiers acted badly? Do we need to bring up Somalia to prove to you what they are capable of?

I don't think you want to bring up Somalia. I was there at that time. The person who tortured and murdered Shidane Arone was called Clayton Matchee, a native from New Brunswick. He later attempted to kill himself in jail but failed. He now exists in a vegetative state.

Somalia is a bad example to bring up when espousing Native causes since it was a Native who committed this terrible crime and disgraced his fellow comrades.

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I don't think you want to bring up Somalia. I was there at that time. The person who tortured and murdered Shidane Arone was called Clayton Matchee, a native from New Brunswick. He later attempted to kill himself in jail but failed. He now exists in a vegetative state.

Somalia is a bad example to bring up when espousing Native causes since it was a Native who committed this terrible crime and disgraced his fellow comrades.

Soldiers are trained to kill and that's exactly what they did.

How convenient that you would leave out the other perpetrators involved in the death of Shidane Arone...

Pte Brown was charged with second degree murder and torture.

Sgt Gresty was acquitted on both counts of negligent performance of duty for his role in the death of Shidane Arone.

MCpl Matchee was found mentally unfit to stand trial on charges of second degree murder and torture.

Sgt Boland pleaded guilty to the charge of negligent performance of duty for his role in the death of Shidane Arone and not guilty to torture. The court martial panel convicted him of negligent performance of duty and stayed the torture charge.

Maj Seward was charged with unlawfully causing bodily harm and negligent performance of a military duty.

Pte Brocklebank was charged with torture and negligent performance of duty.

Capt Sox was charged with unlawfully causing bodily harm, negligent performance of duty, and an act to the prejudice of good order and discipline for his role in the death of Shidane Arone.

Capt Rainville, the officer leading the CARBG Reconnaissance Platoon in Somalia, was charged with unlawfully causing bodily harm and negligent performance of duty in connection with the March 4, 1993 incident in which one Somali national was killed and a second was wounded.

LCol Mathieu was charged, in connection with the March 4th incident, with negligent performance of duty as a result of orders allegedly given on the use of deadly force, contrary to the ROE.

MCpl Smith was charged with criminal negligence causing death and negligent performance of duty as a result of accidentally discharging his rifle and fatally wounding Cpl Abel on May 3, 1993 in Somalia.

THE SOMALIA MISSION:POST-DEPLOYMENT

THE COURTS MARTIAL

Investigations and Charges

There was more than "one" native that killed the boy. Oh look I found their names for you.....

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Thats nice.

Matchee killed the boy. The others named and charged did not kill him. Some of them participated in roughing the boy up when he was initially captured. Others were charged by failure to act when Kyle Brown reported what was happening in the bunker. Others, the officers were charged because they were responsible for the actions of the men, some also attempted to conceal the truth of the matter.

It was Matchee who voluntered to take the watch for the relief that night. He ordered Brown to remain with him in the bunker. He proceeded to beat and torture the boy for hours through the night. He further ordered Brown to take pictures of him with his "trophy". Brown actually left the bunker and tried to inform his superiors of what Matchee was doing. after the fact Matchee walked around boasting and proud of himself. Until he was arrested, that is.

It is generally accepted that Brown was scapegoated by the Liberals for what happened, they couldn't use Matchee for several reasons, the most important being that he'd turned himself into a vegetable. Hence the reason why they shut down the inquiry in such a hurry when the truth started to come too close to highly placed men. Be that as it may, it was still Matchee who tortured the boy and killed him. It doesn't matter how much of an apologist you are you can not change that most salient fact.

Nice try at deflection though. It still doesn't change that inarguable fact, Matchee killed the boy, no one else, just him.

Of course, I believe it was you who said one time that if you believe a different reality then reality will change. Wasn't it? Sorry, you can believe whatever the hell you want, it wont change the fact that Matchee tortured and killed Arone.

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Thats nice.

Matchee killed the boy. The others named and charged did not kill him. Some of them participated in roughing the boy up when he was initially captured. Others were charged by failure to act when Kyle Brown reported what was happening in the bunker. Others, the officers were charged because they were responsible for the actions of the men, some also attempted to conceal the truth of the matter.

It was Matchee who voluntered to take the watch for the relief that night. He ordered Brown to remain with him in the bunker. He proceeded to beat and torture the boy for hours through the night. He further ordered Brown to take pictures of him with his "trophy". Brown actually left the bunker and tried to inform his superiors of what Matchee was doing. after the fact Matchee walked around boasting and proud of himself. Until he was arrested, that is.

It is generally accepted that Brown was scapegoated by the Liberals for what happened, they couldn't use Matchee for several reasons, the most important being that he'd turned himself into a vegetable. Hence the reason why they shut down the inquiry in such a hurry when the truth started to come too close to highly placed men. Be that as it may, it was still Matchee who tortured the boy and killed him. It doesn't matter how much of an apologist you are you can not change that most salient fact.

Nice try at deflection though. It still doesn't change that inarguable fact, Matchee killed the boy, no one else, just him.

Of course, I believe it was you who said one time that if you believe a different reality then reality will change. Wasn't it? Sorry, you can believe whatever the hell you want, it wont change the fact that Matchee tortured and killed Arone.

Bull. They were all complicit and Kyle Brown was found guilty of murder. He did it and it was a game the army played with an innocent boy. Those who were charged with unlawful bodily harm each took their shots at the boy.

The point is the army was full of society misfits then, and is still full of society misfits today. They are a murderous, unlawful bunch who would just as easily stick a 14 year old with a bayonet as they would cut the testicles off a 16 year old boy.

I'm still waiting for your retration BTW that the army doesn;t use bayonets. That bull, like this that you are trying to pass off just doesn't cut it around here.

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There were no criminals and hoodlums there. Like the Six Nations occupation of the DCE lands, there were mothers, grandmothers children and old men that took over the site. The Warriors showed up when the Army did, as a counter response to the aggression.

Really....so when the QPP raided the camp and the bullets flew in both directions.....who was firing on behalf of the hoodlums and thugs?

As I said above, a contemporay account would be more helpful than a whitewash propagnada story

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Complicit is not the same as committing murder. Clayton Matchee was a killer, a murderer, will you try to deny that now? Of course you will, you were actually there when it went down, right?

As for bayonets, it is not policy to use bayonets, way too inneficient, just because one commander gave the order does not make it policy, are you unaware of that? That is if your cherry picked sources are to be believed. Of course you can now claim that no journalist has ever slanted a report in order to favour a cause they support.

As for the "peacefull" natives, well all the footage of them slinging rocks, bottles and whatever else they could get their hands on must have been faked, just like the lunar landings, right?

That bull, like this that you are trying to pass off just doesn't cut it around here.

Well when it comes to bull I'll defer to your superior knowledge and skill, it appears from what you post that you are a grand master of the technique.

The point is the army was full of society misfits then, and is still full of society misfits today.

Hmmm, what a crock of sh*t that statement is. The truth of the matter is that the vast majority of serving Canadians are very fine people. It appears you are not fit to stand within their shadow, never mind consider your self their equal. Why do you revert to false blanket statements that villify entire groups or races? I've mentioned before that your overt racism is a little disturbing. It appears you know no bounds when it comes to racist statements, even going so far as to fabricate reality in order to support your irrational prejudices. You really should try to get that under control.

Edited by AngusThermopyle
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Complicit is not the same as committing murder. Clayton Matchee was a killer, a murderer, will you try to deny that now? Of course you will, you were actually there when it went down, right?

As for bayonets, it is not policy to use bayonets, way too inneficient, just because one commander gave the order does not make it policy, are you unaware of that? That is if your cherry picked sources are to be believed. Of course you can now claim that no journalist has ever slanted a report in order to favour a cause they support.

As for the "peacefull" natives, well all the footage of them slinging rocks, bottles and whatever else they could get their hands on must have been faked, just like the lunar landings, right?

Well when it comes to bull I'll defer to your superior knowledge and skill, it appears from what you post that you are a grand master of the technique.

Hmmm, what a crock of sh*t that statement is. The truth of the matter is that the vast majority of serving Canadians are very fine people. It appears you are not fit to stand within their shadow, never mind consider your self their equal. Why do you revert to false blanket statements that villify entire groups or races? I've mentioned before that your overt racism is a little disturbing. It appears you know no bounds when it comes to racist statements, even going so far as to fabricate reality in order to support your irrational prejudices. You really should try to get that under control.

Among law enforcers. Oka is known as the pivotal time when they found out that "The Indians would shoot back." It was a huge wakeup call for governments that their plundering of native land was going to be challenged, and it has been challenged ever since.

I expect the army was under orders not to shoot, so they used bayonets instead, so as not to frighten the neighbours, I suppose. But now they have tasers so they can shoot as many as they want, apparently, and as many times. One teenager was recently tasered 3 times to take him down, and three more times when he was on the ground, which was totally out of line. The jolt of electricity makes a person's body jump, and watching the vid, it seemed to me that the final tasers were directed at him because his body was moving from the jolts. 6 times? The cops still manage to get their 'jollies'.

HOWEVER, I want to go on record here to say clearly: The systemic racism and misplaced aggression against Indigenous People among our cops and soldiers is only symptom of the systemic racism and aggression of our governments. I do not fault the troops nor the cops on the line, but the attitudes and directions that come from government. At both Oka and Ipperwash, politicians were up to their eyeballs in giving 'direction' to the cops. Local politicians were in it at Caledonia too, prior to April 20, 2006 and the raid on that day was politically motivated too, effectively ordering OPP officers to violate their Oath of Office (Loyalty to the Queen, uphold the Constitution).

I am very proud of the way the OPP have taken back control from the politicians and now uphold Constitutional rights of all involved, and respect the Queen's treaties. This is the law.

Canada's position right now is that "existing Aboriginal and Treaty rights" under Canada's Constitution could bankrupt the country and leave us with no land mass of our own, and thus no country. This is the real issue for the politicians ... that and the fact that they can hardly wage an all out war of aggression against them as still happens in some countries. Lily white Canada would not want to be seen doing that!

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I do not fault the troops nor the cops on the line, but the attitudes and directions that come from government.

I disagree, joan. That was an excuse used at Nuremberg too, but the court found that soldiers following orders must question those orders when it means the killing of innocent people. And until these police and soldiers have enough of a conscience to question before they act, they are equally responsible. Just as in the case in the death Shidane Arone, soldiers following orders does not make it right.

BTW I heard today that Larry Hay the former Police Chief of Tyendinaga was officially fired today. If you remember he was the one that was quoted by Loyalist College newspaper as having said the OPP and RCMP are racist organizations. When I last spoke with Mr. Hay he was expecting this action. Certainly it will bolster his claims of wrongful dismissal against the OPP when it goes to court later this year. I suspect that we will see a settlement in the millions. That would be expected from Fantino, rather than admitting that in fact they are a racist organization. Here is one example where a commanding officer refused to follow orders because they were racially motivated. It is also expected that Fantino will be handed his walking papers pretty soon....or so says the little mouse.....

Edited by charter.rights
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I disagree, joan. That was an excuse used at Nuremberg too, but the court found that soldiers following orders must question those orders when it means the killing of innocent people. And until these police and soldiers have enough of a conscience to question before they act, they are equally responsible. Just as in the case in the death Shidane Arone, soldiers following orders does not make it right.

BTW I heard today that Larry Hay the former Police Chief of Tyendinaga was officially fired today. If you remember he was the one that was quoted by Loyalist College newspaper as having said the OPP and RCMP are racist organizations. When I last spoke with Mr. Hay he was expecting this action. Certainly it will bolster his claims of wrongful dismissal against the OPP when it goes to court later this year. I suspect that we will see a settlement in the millions. That would be expected from Fantino, rather than admitting that in fact they are a racist organization. Here is one example where a commanding officer refused to follow orders because they were racially motivated. It is also expected that Fantino will be handed his walking papers pretty soon....or so says the little mouse.....

Wow! Thanks for the update. I am glad he is suing. This will be interesting, since Justice Linden said the same thing about the OPP in the Ipperwash Report. :lol:

Hay was basically repeating what the report said, and related it to his own experience in the OPP and RCMP.

About questioning orders ... absolutely, you're right. They are responsible for such actions for sure, although the presence of threat has to be considered too.

And that is why I am glad the OPP made a decision to keep things clear for themselves and uphold their Oath, regardless of political pressures. Unfortunately, the RCMP's only Oath is to follow orders and instructions.

However, our government needs to be held accountable for exercising political pressures on police, and for misleading all of us about the law too.

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