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Toronto School Board eyes "Afro-centric" school


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Dah guyser if you were co-existing together just FINE then Black only schools would not be an issue. Deny, deny no matter how you stack it Toronto SUCKS.

So , you feel that since "some" trustees run with this idea for a bit , it means that blacks dont get along with the rest of torontonians.

Hey, no matter how wrong you are entitled to say what you want.

When they were discussing this in your province did it equate to bad racial harmony?

Lets see, where were the first race riots?

TO is just fine thanks. Sucks so bad tons of people move here. Even people from your area. You know jobs and opportunities and all that.....

Besides, it is now a dead issue in TO. We have moved on, but dont stop your little mistruths from being posted.

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But, prior to that level, there's no need for such a thing, not in this country; there should be one history taught predominantly in our public schools, and that's the history of Canada.
Tell me about it.

In 2005 or 2006 I went to a Great Big Sea concert in New York City, met two Peterborough, Ontario schoolteachers, and wound up teaching them who Montcalm and Wolfe were and what the significance of the Plains of Abraham was. This was revolting, given that they are teaching Canadian children, I am certainly not Canadian, and I have an extremely limited knowledge of Canada.

I was at a blue rodeo concert more recently in NYC. I met a 27ish woman from of all places Winnipeg who did not know who Louis Riel (apparently a Manitoba NDP and Francophone hero, though a rank traitor) was.

Apparently, a not very bright Yank can know more Canadian history than Canadian teachers. I think G Bambino has a point.

But, prior to that level, there's no need for such a thing, not in this country; there should be one history taught predominantly in our public schools, and that's the history of Canada.
I'm thinking that often the problem with racism or nationalism tends to stem from this very thing. I wish they would teach more world history in order for children to see just how integrated we are in many respects. I think the kids would love it actually. It would broaden there horizons and prick there curiosity toward the political realm.
Bullfeathers.

I do not need my children being taught that "indigenous" people, often violent, dangerous and not contributing much to mankind, are the moral equivalents of the English-speaking people.

Edited by jbg
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Absolutely! That is, not teaching world history results in racism. I guess that because I'm european i think it is possible since we had to learn about europes development from an early age. So it is only natural that I would be concerned that a majority Canadian curicculum could result in kids believing that their country is the 'best of all possible worlds' so to speak. . . .and that other cultures throughout the world are strange as opposed to simply different.

I think that it is more then possible to compare effects of major historical events For example the industrial revolution and the differing repercussions of it internationally; or the effects of the cold war, Vietnam, two world wars and so on.

Apparently, your spelling instruction was even more deificient than your knowledge of history, if that is possible. How do you define "world history"? The topic is so broad that to do equal justice to all lands would be well-nigh impossible, with competing topics such as math, English (or Franglish, or Canadian). Do we start with Gononwanaland (sp) or with the Great Rift Valley?

Or, as I suspect, is this a hatefest/guilt trip so that people can feel really good about themselves by saying "Pakistan/bin Laden, Janjaweed/I'm A Dinner Jacket (Iran's President) good, Israel/Bush/US/Harper/Canada/Britain/Australia bad? Did the World Health Organization invent penicillin, or the polio vaccine? Did UNICEF create the Green Revolution?

Or would these inconvenient facts have to be massaged before the final chorus of Kumbaya echos through a classroom where no one learned anything?

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Moot to you, but here in NS we are proud of our Black Community and it's roots in our Culture. Unlike Toronto we co-exist living together peacefully. Perhaps Toronto could learn from our Diversity (oh god did I use the D word) and our abilty to intergrate with each other.

See that's the difference between you and I. I see those people as Canadians. I don't lump them into some creed or culture or group. They're one of us.

To bad you, and your blacks don't feel the same way I do. Maybe if both of you took up my attitude, the blacks would be doing better in Nova Scotia rather then being black 'Natives' sitting on welfare and doing nothing.

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The observation is that failing cultures such as the black culture seem to creep up silently upon us and become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Yes, like we expect blacks to fail and hello, they are failing. No surprises there.

Blacks are poor for the most part anywhere in the world.

That is not a racist statement, it's a factual statement.

We should not be letting the whole world into Canada. It's illogical.

The US created their black problem indirectly.

Canada is now creating our own black problem through lax immigration policy.

Black crime is not tied to rap, it's tied to poverty.

Blacks coming to Canada are coming here to have kids, and live in poverty.

... and vote Liberal.

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This idea is the pinnacle of the multiculturalist dream.

God help us.

Actually it is the antithesis of the multicultural dream. But that you think it is bad shows that multiculturalism has become a part of how we think, even in anti-social types.

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Toronto blacks are immigrant groups. Not hisorical blacks.
What is a historical black, as opposed to an immigrant? Would Martin Luther King been, in the US? a historical black?
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Blacks are poor for the most part anywhere in the world. That is not a racist statement, it's a factual statement.

Unless you can substantiate your statements such as "We should not be letting the whole world into Canada" "black crime is not tied to rap” black is tied to poverty" "Blacks are coming to Canada to have kids" "blacks vote liberal" etc. with some logical arguments and give some reference, it is simply self-fulfilling prophecy, presumptuous (I wanted to use imprudent, but doubt that you are researching problems with blacks on what might or is happening to them today, tomorrow, next year …. and can later explain why it didn’t happen). I have been known be incorrect though.

Edited by RB
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What is a historical black, as opposed to an immigrant? Would Martin Luther King been, in the US? a historical black?

From the recent post from mikedavid00 I gather that immigrant blacks are those recent immigrants of black race. They are probably 1st generation black immigrants currently having kids. From the post I am also gathering that the current "black" problem is different from the black problem of a decade ago. Someone correct me.

This is strange because I find that the black problem of today, or long ago is deeply rooted in their race, attitudes, conotations of color stereotype, their culture, our systemic discriminatory polices etc.

It is the same black problem whatever name you decide to call it.

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Canadian educational initiatives to both 'integrate' people (in theory) and yet in practice to 'seperate' off has failed. We need only look ar residential schools. Perhaps it should be a lesson. . . . in PRINCIPLE as follows:.Of course this is not a direct parallel but its something to learn from.

Once ordained, Egerton started The Christian Guardian, Canada’s most-read newspaper. It was published by Ryerson Publishing press, which still exists today. In 1833, he went to England to fight the Anglican Church’s bid to become the official church of Canada. When he returned, he became principal of Methodist academy Victoria College.

There, he eliminated the coed program, sending the girls away, and cut all vacations except Christmas and New Year’s. Then in 1843, Egerton helped elect an advisory council friendly to the governor general and in return, he was appointed school superintendent. He worked for Upper Canada for more than 30 years, introducing free primary and secondary education.

Instead of focusing on the three R’s, Egerton believed students should study science and the arts. It was during these years that he established the Normal School to train the colony’s teachers and earned the reputation as the godfather of Canada’s education system.

And this is likely the only way Egerton would be remembered if he hadn’t been a supporter of residential schools. There is no single event that is accepted as the genesis of residential schools, but the Bagot Commission Report, named after the governor in 1842, became a seminal document in the establishment of labour schools for native boys. Egerton supported the Bagot Commission. He believed, in complete faith, that separate schools run by the government were the best way to improve native quality of life.

It was a belief formed on the Credit River with Chief Jones. Egerton wanted to emphasize religious and language teachings, while also instructing farming and mechanical labour to make the school self-sufficient. He did not want the natives to learn specific trades, arguing that they would do best as “working farmers and agricultural labourers.”

Egerton apparently elaborated on these thoughts in the 1847 report, though there isn’t a lot of available research on the actual text itself. For the most part, it’s cited on timelines of residential schools.

For instance, one from cbc.ca reads: “1847 — Egerton Ryerson produces a study of native education at the request of the assistant superintendent general of Indian affairs. His findings become the model for future native residential schools. Ryerson recommends that domestic education and religious instruction is the best model for the Indian population. The recommended focus is on agricultural training; and government funding will be awarded through inspections and reports.”

Egerton was a man of his times and his peers would not have seen him as a rabid, or even radical, racist. In fact, from what is available, it appears Egerton was convinced that his plan of federally funded separate schools was the only choice to ensure the well-being of aboriginals. In reality, the opposite turned out to be true. As J.R. Miller, a history professor at the University of Saskatchewan and residential school expert, says, “Nobody yet knew what the horrors of the residential school would bring.”

In 1907, Dr. Peter Bryce, medical inspector for the Department of Indian Affairs, found that nearly 50 per cent of all western residential school students died from disease. His report, entitled “A Story of a National Crime,” came to light in 1922.

Unfortunately, two years earlier, the government had amended the Indian Act to force all native children ages 7 to 15 to attend residential schools, now called boarding schools, which churches of various denominations ran with government funding. Parents could go to jail if they didn’t send their children to a place where teachers banished aboriginal languages. And once there, the schools acted as assimilation camps where a host of human rights abuses —sexual assault, corporal punishment and forced labour — occurred.

The abuse continued until the government started closing boarding schools in the 1990s when public awareness of the abuse grew. The last residential school closed in Saskatchewan in 1996. And in April 2006, the Conservative government completed a $1.9-billion compensation deal with the Assembly of First Nations that had first been negotiated with the Liberal government.

Undermining the financial relief, Indian Affairs Minister Jim Prentice said the government wouldn’t apologize on behalf of Canada. Native leaders were outraged that today, 170 years after Egerton advocated for schools to teach native children European culture, the government could not say: “We’re sorry.”

. . . . Of course the Toronto board is NOT TODAY speaking of putting the kids into residential schools. But the PRINCIPLES are exactly the same. What could come of this? I do not think the rationale has changed much from then to now by the sounds of you guys.

Edited by maxsyno
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Canadian educational initiatives to both 'integrate' people (in theory) and yet in practice to 'seperate' off has failed. We need only look ar residential schools. Perhaps it should be a lesson. . . .as follows:

Once ordained, Egerton started The Christian Guardian, Canada’s most-read newspaper. It was published by Ryerson Publishing press, which still exists today. In 1833, he went to England to fight the Anglican Church’s bid to become the official church of Canada. When he returned, he became principal of Methodist academy Victoria College.

There, he eliminated the coed program, sending the girls away, and cut all vacations except Christmas and New Year’s. Then in 1843, Egerton helped elect an advisory council friendly to the governor general and in return, he was appointed school superintendent. He worked for Upper Canada for more than 30 years, introducing free primary and secondary education.

Instead of focusing on the three R’s, Egerton believed students should study science and the arts. It was during these years that he established the Normal School to train the colony’s teachers and earned the reputation as the godfather of Canada’s education system.

And this is likely the only way Egerton would be remembered if he hadn’t been a supporter of residential schools. There is no single event that is accepted as the genesis of residential schools, but the Bagot Commission Report, named after the governor in 1842, became a seminal document in the establishment of labour schools for native boys. Egerton supported the Bagot Commission. He believed, in complete faith, that separate schools run by the government were the best way to improve native quality of life.

It was a belief formed on the Credit River with Chief Jones. Egerton wanted to emphasize religious and language teachings, while also instructing farming and mechanical labour to make the school self-sufficient. He did not want the natives to learn specific trades, arguing that they would do best as “working farmers and agricultural labourers.”

Egerton apparently elaborated on these thoughts in the 1847 report, though there isn’t a lot of available research on the actual text itself. For the most part, it’s cited on timelines of residential schools.

For instance, one from cbc.ca reads: “1847 — Egerton Ryerson produces a study of native education at the request of the assistant superintendent general of Indian affairs. His findings become the model for future native residential schools. Ryerson recommends that domestic education and religious instruction is the best model for the Indian population. The recommended focus is on agricultural training; and government funding will be awarded through inspections and reports.”

Egerton was a man of his times and his peers would not have seen him as a rabid, or even radical, racist. In fact, from what is available, it appears Egerton was convinced that his plan of federally funded separate schools was the only choice to ensure the well-being of aboriginals. In reality, the opposite turned out to be true. As J.R. Miller, a history professor at the University of Saskatchewan and residential school expert, says, “Nobody yet knew what the horrors of the residential school would bring.”

In 1907, Dr. Peter Bryce, medical inspector for the Department of Indian Affairs, found that nearly 50 per cent of all western residential school students died from disease. His report, entitled “A Story of a National Crime,” came to light in 1922.

Unfortunately, two years earlier, the government had amended the Indian Act to force all native children ages 7 to 15 to attend residential schools, now called boarding schools, which churches of various denominations ran with government funding. Parents could go to jail if they didn’t send their children to a place where teachers banished aboriginal languages. And once there, the schools acted as assimilation camps where a host of human rights abuses —sexual assault, corporal punishment and forced labour — occurred.

The abuse continued until the government started closing boarding schools in the 1990s when public awareness of the abuse grew. The last residential school closed in Saskatchewan in 1996. And in April 2006, the Conservative government completed a $1.9-billion compensation deal with the Assembly of First Nations that had first been negotiated with the Liberal government.

Undermining the financial relief, Indian Affairs Minister Jim Prentice said the government wouldn’t apologize on behalf of Canada. Native leaders were outraged that today, 170 years after Egerton advocated for schools to teach native children European culture, the government could not say: “We’re sorry.”

. . . . Of course the Toronto board is NOT TODAY speaking of putting the kids into residential schools. But the PRINCIPLES are exactly the same. What could come of this? I do not think the rationale has changed much from then to now by the sounds of you guys.

Black radical leaders want to go back to Africa and recapture the golden days prior colonialism. Do we need more ghettos? Sure - I love to go back to when I was king of Russia - but you can't go back...the average black kid wants to be white and the only thing as far as lost and fussy heritage that they want to keep is their skin- Let the kids decide without the proding of eccentric guys wearing french hats and little grey beards..

.Like I said - The kids don't want more African studies..if they do - it's only to fulfill the criteria neccesary to get a grant or a student loan...Black kids that are smart will paly the liberal system - but they really don't want to be moving on up to the deluxe apartment in the sky" - they want a fair shake...just to work and be respected and allowed to advance on talent - not on skin or and affirmative artifical pandering action.

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This idea is the pinnacle of the multiculturalist dream.

God help us.

LOL a leftard think tank in the US did a study on Multiculturalism, well they were rather surprised to learn that it segregates, marginalises and creates ethnic enclaves. Instead of us all living and working amongst each other Multiculture has seperated us based on race, skin color and religion. It's another myth that has been debunked, we have the left to blame for another failed social experiment. Now we the 'Taxpayer" have been left to clean up gettos, and enclaves from gangs and other social problems. I for one am tired of paying for leftwing propaganda AKA "Social Experiments".

One school system for all students, skin color is not an issue. One's IQ isn't applicable to ones skin color, or is it? That's the message I'm getting from TO school board, blacks can only learn in the presense of other blacks. Ouch, reverse racism yet again.

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What is a historical black, as opposed to an immigrant? Would Martin Luther King been, in the US? a historical black?

Well an Italian in Canada running for political office in Italy (yes for real) called American Italians historic Italians, but not real Italians and said that Canada had the most real Italians in the world outside of Rome. I heard that on the radio so figured it was fitting.

Those blacks as well as the blacks in the US are part of our countries history and are Canadians and Americans. We all decended from somewhere, but lets not delve too deep in ideoligy.

People immigating in our moder day and age from the Carribean to Canada, and, who do not consider themselves Canadians are just immigrant groups seeking out political power.

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with some logical arguments and give some reference

Are you denying that Blacks all over the world, regardless of country, don't host the highest murder rates and have unusual amounts of poverty?

Come on.

Stop the Univeristy idealism.

We can't fix Islam, we can't fix 'black problems', we can't fix all the wolds problems.

You are't God. Get used to that.

The best we can do is protect our own interest as a country from outside threats to our society and democracy. Right now, we aren't doing that.

Why not take a look at this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=peFQWuk4nuo

"You have to live like your in a state within a state"

But no, you can't handle the truth. You don't want to know what goes on behind closed doors. You want to view Canada as you wish to view it. Not the reality of what is happening to our country.

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Are you denying that Blacks all over the world, regardless of country, don't host the highest murder rates and have unusual amounts of poverty?

Come on.

Stop the Univeristy idealism.

We can't fix Islam, we can't fix 'black problems', we can't fix all the wolds problems.

You are't God. Get used to that.

The best we can do is protect our own interest as a country from outside threats to our society and democracy. Right now, we aren't doing that.

Why not take a look at this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=peFQWuk4nuo

"You have to live like your in a state within a state"

But no, you can't handle the truth. You don't want to know what goes on behind closed doors. You want to view Canada as you wish to view it. Not the reality of what is happening to our country.

Multi-culturalism is a farce. So is black eccentric learning. May as well face it in this land of incrimental assimulation. The multi-cultural experience in the long term is not the conservation of wonderful and familiar internal colour of all sorts but just a ruse that by design is meant to destroy all culture. The creation of a grey corporate soviet style utilitarianism is what it's about. To further segregate and seperate from the main stream, black youth will have the effect of further destroying the race. Why is it that black on black crime is encouraged?

African studies and womans studies for that matter have had a soul destroying effect. Ask and most woman will tell you that state sponsored feminism has made them poor and lonely. Ask any intelligent older black if between Oprah and the removal of fathers from the black community via a welfare system that ensured that fatherlessness would further kill the spirit and natural happiness in the black community.....ask if the white controlers with all their programs were really their friends and they will say no.

What took place 30 years ago was simple - "You wanna come here from the islands and settle..fine but we will not tolerate your lazy husbands who like to dance and drink and lounge on the beach..if the father of the children does not go to work for one of our companies for minimum wage and like it - There will be no check in the mail for you and the children.." So because the buisness elite that were and are to this day in control of "charity" - drove the black males off - and fatherlessness became institutionalized. Those creating policy as far as social welfare did not equate fatherhood with fatherhood - but fatherhood with provider and worker - slave - Those black men that ran back to the islands or layed low simply did not want to submit and conform to working jobs that were slavish. That was the begining and end of your problem at Jane and Finch - prejudice and colonial style oppression and now society at large pay for the bright ideas of some older elite now dead and gone.

Blacks should continue to be mixed in to acedemic life - not ghettoized. Seperate schools would further cause harm. A plan should be put in place where fathers are re-patriated with there wifes and children...paid if neccessary to do their natural duty not so much as providers but protectors and advisors. Jamiaca was abandoned by the conlonialist once the wealth was finalized and the need of the people as workers was over. Canada and other originally anglo settlements...owe these people a debt...and seperating them into seprated schools is akin to the origninal abandonment of the slaves to fend for themselves....either bring them in as full citizens or send them to Etheopia to continue where they left of as noblemen and kings.

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What is a historical black, as opposed to an immigrant? Would Martin Luther King been, in the US? a historical black?

More simply, what is meant by "black culture"? That experienced by B B King or Bob Marley? The cultures are VERY different! To group them together solely on the basis of shared skin colour to me makes about as much sense as equating Frenchmen and Inuit 'cuz they're both white!

Being a new comer I read this entire thread. Harking back to the opening post, I'm reminded of a classic Doonesbury cartoon, where the college dean is looking out his window at a black student protest. It's the late 80's, as this was the second Doonesbury run, and the dean is remarking to his assistant:

"You know, when I was younger I marched with Dr. King to support his 'rainbow coalition'. I took a few hits from the cops' night sticks but thought it was worth it to achieve racial equality in America.

Now it seems they want their OWN drinking fountains!"

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More simply, what is meant by "black culture"? That experienced by B B King or Bob Marley? The cultures are VERY different! To group them together solely on the basis of shared skin colour to me makes about as much sense as equating Frenchmen and Inuit 'cuz they're both white!

Being a new comer I read this entire thread. Harking back to the opening post, I'm reminded of a classic Doonesbury cartoon, where the college dean is looking out his window at a black student protest. It's the late 80's, as this was the second Doonesbury run, and the dean is remarking to his assistant:

"You know, when I was younger I marched with Dr. King to support his 'rainbow coalition'. I took a few hits from the cops' night sticks but thought it was worth it to achieve racial equality in America.

Now it seems they want their OWN drinking fountains!"

East side Chicago blues of old? Or - Jamican gang banging gun culture - or Ras Tafari royalism - they have lots to choose from...maybe Lincoln Alexander the white black guy has an idea - is that old geaser still alive? I enjoy the black men on my street - one is a white black guy..the other is an older black king of a man - and on occassion a bad boy will come by that they sent to the school of last resort at the end of the street - I looked at the kid the wrong way and he spit on the neighbours fence and threatened my for being cicil and kind to him...they come in all shapes and sizes - the youth with the bitter chip on their shoulder - I am warey off...I remember being told by this old black lady " My grand children will become your worst nightmare" Jeeez...I never had slaves..nor did my grandfather - well actually he did - white ones.

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East side Chicago blues of old? Or - Jamican gang banging gun culture - or Ras Tafari royalism - they have lots to choose from...maybe Lincoln Alexander the white black guy has an idea - is that old geaser still alive? I enjoy the black men on my street - one is a white black guy..the other is an older black king of a man - and on occassion a bad boy will come by that they sent to the school of last resort at the end of the street - I looked at the kid the wrong way and he spit on the neighbours fence and threatened my for being cicil and kind to him...they come in all shapes and sizes - the youth with the bitter chip on their shoulder - I am warey off...I remember being told by this old black lady " My grand children will become your worst nightmare" Jeeez...I never had slaves..nor did my grandfather - well actually he did - white ones.

Oh, Linc is still alive! He's one of Hamilton's icons. He lost his wife to Alzheimer's a couple of years ago. I sympathize with his loss. He's a fine old gentleman.

Still, I must confess that he wouldn't be my first choice to hang out with on a summer evening pub crawl. I'd get more of a kick if I could spend some time chatting with Jackie Washington. There's an old guy who's had his share of hard knocks and racial changes! Yet he's a sweetheart to people of any colour or persuasion, although there's a rumour he was a bit cold to the lead singer of an ABBA tribute band. :P

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Oh, Linc is still alive! He's one of Hamilton's icons. He lost his wife to Alzheimer's a couple of years ago. I sympathize with his loss. He's a fine old gentleman.

Still, I must confess that he wouldn't be my first choice to hang out with on a summer evening pub crawl. I'd get more of a kick if I could spend some time chatting with Jackie Washington. There's an old guy who's had his share of hard knocks and racial changes! Yet he's a sweetheart to people of any colour or persuasion, although there's a rumour he was a bit cold to the lead singer of an ABBA tribute band. :P

Yah he would be a bit to proper to hang with.. There is this techno exec..that just bought the house next door..and he is renoing it plus installing a little music studio...I am still interested in going back to playing and recording - anyway he's a very bright black kid...and he has taken his aging father who is about 6 foor 6 and huge - and put him into a suite on the second floor..the old guy is a charmer - his mistress is 30 and he's pushing 70.

.we instantly adored each other and mostly talk about woman...He trusted me very quickly and he is a person that has seen it all - what he saw in me was that I love people...and that I have had my hard knocks also...we would be a holy terror if we went out on the town...so I will just leave that alone.. I have seen the best and the worst...and I can be cut throat and loyal..but at my age loyality is a must...I have a friend..

My youngest son was laughing at me because when the old black dude was carrying a box out to the back.... I imagined that ---"hey this guy is ticklish....so my 17 year old laughed...they said what's dad doing..he said - he's out in the alley tickling that huge old black man" - well it was funny...I am going to enjoy him as a neighbour...and I can tell - we will be protectors of each other...after all - I am no spring chicken and us old guys have to stick together - call it exclusionary ageism..but we have something in common - we have both lived. Plus we are both in the care of our adult children - I am a well preserved and happy 57 year old...don't tell anyone.

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  • 1 month later...

Anyone catch these people on TVO Thursday night? I haven't followed the discussion here, but I found the discussion on tv quite interesting. These people aren't congenial, well-intentioned educators who want to provide a better environment for students "of colour," rather are black-power, "de-colonialist" radicals who want to indoctrinate black children with their divisive, hateful beliefs. These people clearly have no intention of educating these children to be good Canadians, rather they want to instill in them a sense of black nationalism and a virulent anti-white/anti-Canada mentality. I'm wonder just what kinds of jobs these kids expect to get later in life with that kind of school on their resume?

I wouldn't be surprised if this is the kind of guy that inspires them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai0-6mWZivk

Edited by kengs333
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