Jump to content
Political Discussion Forums

The Coward of Caledonia?


Recommended Posts

The protest of the 41 agreement has nothing to do with lots not being paid at all. You'd better take a refresher course. The issues are distinct.

The land was surrendered to the management of the government on condition that they arrange sales and leases and put that money into Six Nations Trust fund. If a mortgage or lease was in default, that land reverted to Six Nations. Almost all went into default, and reverted to Six Nations ownership long ago.

The surrender is irrelevant because it was voided by the government's noncompliance with the terms - failure to lease and sell the lots and collect the money for the benefit of Six Nations.

Now, I don't know about you but if I contracted with a property management company and they failed to account for the money, I would be certainly be entitled to void the agreement!

Edited by joan
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 402
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Maybe you should check out Osgoode Hall. They have a replica of the Two Row Wampum - a recognition of the Confederacy sovereignty - affixed on the wall of their Great Hall. Lawyers are bottom feeders for the most part. I'm not sure becoming a Great Bottom Feeder is something to get excited about.

Ouch. :lol: I wasn't smart enough to be a dentist or doctor. Stand up comedy I am not so bad with.

Link to post
Share on other sites
The land was surrendered to the management of the government on condition that they arrange sales and leases and put that money into Six Nations Trust fund. If a mortgage or lease was in default, that land reverted to Six Nations. Almost all went into default, and reverted to Six Nations ownership long ago.

The surrender is irrelevant because it was voided by the government's noncompliance with the terms - failure to lease and sell the lots and collect the money for the benefit of Six Nations.

Now, I don't know about you but if I contracted with a property management company and they failed to account for the money, I would be certainly be entitled to void the agreement!

The Supreme Court of Canada agrees with you so I would say the only issue now is how do we create a solution that properly acknpowledges and provides restitution for the breaches and enables a relationship in the future that is mutually beneficial. I think certain nations have in fact demonstrated they have been able to come up with some very progressive resolutions that fairly compensate and recognize aboriginal rights but allow aboriginals and non aboriginals to work in joint ventures.

I think this is possible. I think as well because so much of Canada is about mineral rights and we have been so careless in selling those rights away to China and Japan and the US and been ridiculously short sighted on the environmental damage our extracting processes have caused-we have to understand the aboriginal component is not just about assuring aboriginal rights-it helps us assure we engage in practices that are harmonious with the rules of nature.

Those mineral companies working with aboriginals in mutually beneficial agreements have not had their profit harmed in engaging in environmentally safe practices the aboriginal peoples were able to teach them how to incorporate into their extracting activities.

The knowledge aboriginals have as to harmonious environmental practices are invaluable and ironically unlike some of the posters on this forum, these companies are deliberately turning to aboriginals for their knowledge.

That to me is the way of the future.

This is why I keep stating aboriginals whether some believe it or not represent the future not just the past.

Link to post
Share on other sites
This is why I keep stating aboriginals whether some believe it or not represent the future not just the past.

Sort of a cliche' statement...no offence.

Well, they'd better hit the books because the drop-out rate is somewhere in the 70% range if I'm not mistaken...and that's with all yea olde leg-up social programs.

Birth control, as well, would be a bit of a blessing for the natives as they are an incredibly young population...27 yrs or something amazing like that. Seeing 15-16 year old native girls pushing a pram with one more kid on foot behind can't be a great way to get ahead in this world...unless you count multiple child tax credit cheques as getting ahead.

------------------------------------------------

Circumstances are beyond human control, but our conduct is within our own power.

---Benjamin Disraeli

Link to post
Share on other sites
The Supreme Court of Canada agrees with you so I would say the only issue now is how do we create a solution that properly acknpowledges and provides restitution for the breaches and enables a relationship in the future that is mutually beneficial. I think certain nations have in fact demonstrated they have been able to come up with some very progressive resolutions that fairly compensate and recognize aboriginal rights but allow aboriginals and non aboriginals to work in joint ventures.

I think this is possible. I think as well because so much of Canada is about mineral rights and we have been so careless in selling those rights away to China and Japan and the US and been ridiculously short sighted on the environmental damage our extracting processes have caused-we have to understand the aboriginal component is not just about assuring aboriginal rights-it helps us assure we engage in practices that are harmonious with the rules of nature.

Those mineral companies working with aboriginals in mutually beneficial agreements have not had their profit harmed in engaging in environmentally safe practices the aboriginal peoples were able to teach them how to incorporate into their extracting activities.

The knowledge aboriginals have as to harmonious environmental practices are invaluable and ironically unlike some of the posters on this forum, these companies are deliberately turning to aboriginals for their knowledge.

That to me is the way of the future.

This is why I keep stating aboriginals whether some believe it or not represent the future not just the past.

You are right about all of that. Traditional knowledge is something we have not paid enough attention to, and we can benefit greatly from that.

In the Haldimand Tract, this issue is not mining or logging (though it is elsewhere), but development. The process the Haudenosaunee Confederacy has put in place involves reviewing all development proposals in comparison to their own population expansion and economic development needs, as well as environmental issues. They will approve, change or halt developments to be consistent with their plans. They also negotiate a share of revenues, or a flat rate for revenue sharing.

Revenue sharing is a huge issue right across the country, as Indigenous Peoples get no share of the resources taken from their land. The government is not negotiating these revenue sharing agreements in good faith, just refusing to consult, or dragging things out and hindering them in any way they can.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Sort of a cliche' statement...no offence.

Well, they'd better hit the books because the drop-out rate is somewhere in the 70% range if I'm not mistaken...and that's with all yea olde leg-up social programs.

Birth control, as well, would be a bit of a blessing for the natives as they are an incredibly young population...27 yrs or something amazing like that. Seeing 15-16 year old native girls pushing a pram with one more kid on foot behind can't be a great way to get ahead in this world...unless you count multiple child tax credit cheques as getting ahead.

------------------------------------------------

Circumstances are beyond human control, but our conduct is within our own power.

---Benjamin Disraeli

Dropout rates are down to 50% and dropping fast, postsecondary rates of enrolment and success are up greatly. Half of the population in our colleges are mature students with families, both Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal. Having kids young is no deterrent to education. The population is young because the Elders died young as a result of abuse and trauma in the residential schools. They are rebuilding their population and will continue to do so.

Your ignorant and stereotyped comments only show you know nothing of the topic, and have nothing intelligent to say, so why bother? <_<

Link to post
Share on other sites
Dropout rates are down to 50% and dropping fast, postsecondary rates of enrolment and success are up greatly. Half of the population in our colleges are mature students with families, both Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal. Having kids young is no deterrent to education. The population is young because the Elders died young as a result of abuse and trauma in the residential schools. They are rebuilding their population and will continue to do so.

Your ignorant and stereotyped comments only show you know nothing of the topic, and have nothing intelligent to say, so why bother? <_<

My mistake...75% drop-out rate in rural areas...50% in the urban areas. Great record.

Having kids young is no deterrent to education. The population is young because the Elders died young as a result of abuse and trauma in the residential schools.

Oh, spare me...I work in property management. I'm well aware of the 'native situation' in my area. The very same girl is spotted turning tricks for the Independant Warriors or some other loser gang. Of course getting knocked-up at 14 is a deterrent to education. Do your people a favor...never run for office.

Your ignorant and stereotyped comments only show you know nothing of the topic, and have nothing intelligent to say, so why bother?

Gee...I was just thinking the same thing re: you.

:lol:

-------------------------------------------------

Crosses are being burnt on the lawns of Prince George as we speak!

---Hedy Fry

Link to post
Share on other sites
They are rebuilding their population and will continue to do so.

On my dime. apparently.

-----------------------------------------------

A misery is not to be measured from the nature of the evil, but from the temper of the sufferer.

---Joseph Addison

Link to post
Share on other sites
On my dime. apparently.

-----------------------------------------------

A misery is not to be measured from the nature of the evil, but from the temper of the sufferer.

---Joseph Addison

Actually, no, we live on their 'dime': Canada's economy is ENTIRELY dependent on resources from Indigenous land, from which they get NOTHING. We have been nothing but thieves and parasites since we landed here five hundred years ago.

You are mistaken.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Actually, no, we live on their 'dime': Canada's economy is ENTIRELY dependent on resources from Indigenous land, from which they get NOTHING. We have been nothing but thieves and parasites since we landed here five hundred years ago.

You are mistaken.

In your brain I'm mistaken...in reality, my taxes pay for both welfare and child tax credits...both of which the natives make great use of. At least that's the ticket in my neck-o'-the woods. Maybe in your area natives enjoy 100% employment...but I truely doubt it.

We have been nothing but thieves and parasites since we landed here five hundred years ago.

Heavy white-man's guilt? Well don't be too upset. Without "ol' whitey" there'd be no riches for the natives either. This would be just another 3rd World country. Probably with Chinese masters...lol.

:)

----------------------------------------------------

A gem is not polished without rubbing, nor a man perfected without trials.

---Chinese Proverb

Link to post
Share on other sites
Heavy white-man's guilt? Well don't be too upset. Without "ol' whitey" there'd be no riches for the natives either. This would be just another 3rd World country. Probably with Chinese masters...lol.

:)

----------------------------------------------------

A gem is not polished without rubbing, nor a man perfected without trials.

---Chinese Proverb

Wrong. The Iroquois Confederacy among others have been trading up and down and across the Americas long before Columbus ever set sail. How else do you think Hernando de Soto knew there were vast deposits of gold here? You must remember too that the earliest record of human habitation of the Americas predates the occupation of Europe by at least 10,000 years. And had the Europeans not evolved to be the thieves they are it is likely they wouldn't have the technology, or the food resource to have even traveled here.

In the scheme of things, whitey is a late comer and not smart enough to invent much.

Link to post
Share on other sites
In your brain I'm mistaken...in reality, my taxes pay for both welfare and child tax credits...both of which the natives make great use of. At least that's the ticket in my neck-o'-the woods. Maybe in your area natives enjoy 100% employment...but I truely doubt it.

Heavy white-man's guilt? Well don't be too upset. Without "ol' whitey" there'd be no riches for the natives either. This would be just another 3rd World country. Probably with Chinese masters...lol.

:)

----------------------------------------------------

A gem is not polished without rubbing, nor a man perfected without trials.

---Chinese Proverb

Did you even read what I wrote?

We don't pay them anywhere near what we owe them. Get a grip and save your whining for when we have to pay what we truly owe them. <_<:lol:

No guilt here ... when you acknowledge the truth, the guilt goes away. It is only those who try to keep themselves in denial who feel 'guilt' because they know they are wrong but won't admit it to themselves.

The truth will set you free! :lol: :lol:

Link to post
Share on other sites
We don't pay them anywhere near what we owe them.

We owe them nothing...well, you can give them your money...how's that for compromise?

The truth will set you free!

Then what's your problem?

:lol:

------------------------------------------

...bed goes up...bed goes down...bed goes up...bed goes down...

---Homer Simpson

Link to post
Share on other sites
You must remember too that the earliest record of human habitation of the Americas predates the occupation of Europe by at least 10,000 years. And had the Europeans not evolved to be the thieves they are it is likely they wouldn't have the technology, or the food resource to have even traveled here.

In the scheme of things, whitey is a late comer and not smart enough to invent much.

That is, of course, complete BS...especially the bits re: Europe/NA inhabitation and not being smart enough.

:lol:

Try watching James Burke's "Connections" and "The Day The Universe Changed" if you wish to find out the layman's 'hows and whys' of the rise of Western Civilization. I'm sure there are others here that can vouch for Mr Burke.

:)

------------------------------------------------

You ain't heard nothing yet, folks!

---Al Jolson

Link to post
Share on other sites
That is, of course, complete BS...especially the bits re: Europe/NA inhabitation and not being smart enough.

:lol:

Try watching James Burke's "Connections" and "The Day The Universe Changed" if you wish to find out the layman's 'hows and whys' of the rise of Western Civilization. I'm sure there are others here that can vouch for Mr Burke.

:)

------------------------------------------------

You ain't heard nothing yet, folks!

---Al Jolson

Of course the rise of the Western Civilization was the result of theft of ideas and technology from other civilizations.....If western civilization is such a grand concept, how is it that it is not self contained? I mean it requires constant expansion into other territories and markets just in order to sustain what it currently has. The problem is that using theft as a means of profiting eventually will lead to its end...oh wait...it is already collapsing... The first signal to collapse of the Roman Empire was the failure of its institutions and low and behold our institutions are failing all over the place - including our governments.

Yet theft is still going on. That's not inventive, innovative or unique. And even though Genghis Kon might have been proud, theft is still a dirty corporate secret.

Link to post
Share on other sites
In your brain I'm mistaken...in reality, my taxes pay for both welfare and child tax credits...both of which the natives make great use of.

Ain't that a great reason to try and improve the status of Natives?

Without "ol' whitey" there'd be no riches for the natives either. This would be just another 3rd World country. Probably with Chinese masters...lol.

And how could you possibly know that?

Link to post
Share on other sites
If a mortgage or lease was in default, that land reverted to Six Nations. Almost all went into default, and reverted to Six Nations ownership long ago.

I highly doubt you can provide a link that shows this condition of the sale, but please try.

Now, I don't know about you but if I contracted with a property management company and they failed to account for the money, I would be certainly be entitled to void the agreement!

I think there would be reason for a claim for damages. Based on what was accepted it would be the principal amount, valued at the highest price for land at the time, plus 5,000 pounds per annum (the were told to expect 3,000 - 5,000 pounds). Done! Next claim please!

http://www.citizensofcaledonia.ca/PDFDocum...mand_County.pdf

Link to post
Share on other sites
Ain't that a great reason to try and improve the status of Natives?

I'm their support mechanism? They should get jobs and keep their kids in school themselves. That's what I do as a Canadian. No free money for me or my family...no free truck.

And how could you possibly know that?

I use the 3rd World after the British left as my guide...Kenya...how's that little chunk of real-estate doing these days? Or Pakistan?...lol.

But, no...I'm sure the natives here would all be building universities...given the chance. That damn white-man keepin' them down...

:lol:

Meanwhile...in my small city...two native gangs battle over the drug and prostitution 'trades'. One more shooting outside a resturaunt last Thursday. Only one dead this time...not bad...could have been much worse. But I find myself fondly missing the Hell's Angels as they tended to run the crime-biz quietly and without the high levels of violence I'm seeing now. At least that's the story in this part o' Canada.

------------------------------------------------

Excess of grief for the dead is madness; for it is an injury to the living, and the dead know it not.

---Xenophon

Link to post
Share on other sites
Sort of a cliche' statement...no offence.

Well, they'd better hit the books because the drop-out rate is somewhere in the 70% range if I'm not mistaken...and that's with all yea olde leg-up social programs.

Birth control, as well, would be a bit of a blessing for the natives as they are an incredibly young population...27 yrs or something amazing like that. Seeing 15-16 year old native girls pushing a pram with one more kid on foot behind can't be a great way to get ahead in this world...unless you count multiple child tax credit cheques as getting ahead.

Lol I am cliche but your welfare stereotype? What'z that?

I am dead serious. When you get a chance why don't you check out some of the joint ventures between mining companies and aboriginals where aboriginal rights are being properly recognized and honoured and incorporated into the project activities. There is nothing cliche about protecting the environment and engaging in sustainable activities and fairly compensating people.

By the way your stereotype applies equally to non aboriginals so the point?

You suggesting only aboriginals have babies outside marriage? The last time I looked there were a lot of bastards running around in Canada but I am not so sure they are aboriginal.

Edited by Rue
Link to post
Share on other sites
I highly doubt you can provide a link that shows this condition of the sale, but please try.

I think there would be reason for a claim for damages. Based on what was accepted it would be the principal amount, valued at the highest price for land at the time, plus 5,000 pounds per annum (the were told to expect 3,000 - 5,000 pounds). Done! Next claim please!

http://www.citizensofcaledonia.ca/PDFDocum...mand_County.pdf

You miss the point, noahbody: They never gave up ownership of the land to the government: The government only acted as property manager. The land was and is theirs.

No I don't think the leases and mortgages are available online as they are part of the negotiations. However, it is a pretty standard clause that the property reverts to the seller if the buyer defaults (and they virtually all did.) Six Nations is currently conducting an information campaign up and down the Grand to inform people that the land belongs to them. I don't see anyone even trying to stop them. The government knows the truth. They just don't have the guts to tell us.

Edited by joan
Link to post
Share on other sites
Lol I am cliche but your welfare stereotype? What'z that?

I don't know where you live, Rue...but where I live that stereotype equals reality.

---------------------------------------------

USA Today has come out with a new survey...apparently, three out of every four people make up 75% of the population.

---David Letterman

Link to post
Share on other sites
Here's the link:

http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=248281

Isn't this just typical of these clowns? The only good think about this situation is that the injustice to the Caledonia citizens is now getting attention in a national newspaper and not just the local Hamilton Spectator.

I wonder what Dalton would do if the natives claimed the land under Queen's Park? Wouldn't surprise me if he caved then as well.

Just how far is this situation going to go before someone gets hurt?

I agree, we've become too appeasement oriented. Maybe Wounded Knee was a bit extreme, but we've come too far the other way. The FN's are committing acts of war that take them outside of the normal protections of a civilized society.
Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree, we've become too appeasement oriented. Maybe Wounded Knee was a bit extreme, but we've come too far the other way. The FN's are committing acts of war that take them outside of the normal protections of a civilized society.

You are missing the point: They are correcting our injustices against them.

And our law supports them, because injustices were done. It is as simple as that.

Only problem is our governments won't admit it, won't tell us.

But somebody has to tell us, because they are not waiting for our governments anymore. ;)

Acknowledgment of their jurisdiction, a say in development and a share in revenues. Could be as simple as that too, all across the country, but our governments have other agendas than settling any of these claims, imo, like preserving the billion$ dollar 'land claims industry' and covering their own a$$e$. <_<

Link to post
Share on other sites
You are missing the point: They are correcting our injustices against them.

And our law supports them, because injustices were done. It is as simple as that.

The matter is far simpler; the FN's of Caledonia are at war with the people of Ontario. McGuinty should act accordingly.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Announcements




  • Tell a friend

    Love Political Discussion Forums? Tell a friend!
×
×
  • Create New...