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Uh....you did it again.

by reforming the absurd structures that frequently stand in the way of First Nations developing their own lands and resources to become more economically independent;

This will help. It will help also if the government gets off its butt and settles the land claim debts, so they have access to their own money and land for development.

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Dunn care bout the byline

Link please?

loosening Ottawa's grip on reserve-land holdings so that First Nations are free to develop, exploit and borrow against one of the few assets they have;

The author has identified the real issue: Give them back their land.

Edited by joan
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This land claim fiasco is ridiculous.

The government can call whatever it did expropriation, and if the natives want land they can buy it like the rest of us.

If they get their land claims, then I should get my mineral rights.

When the government expropriates land they pay for it. What if they never did?

The land goes back, that's what.

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Nope, the gov't can pay any price it wants. The 100 billion paid to the natives over the years is payment enough.

No it isn't. We take billion$ in resources from their land PER DAY, EVERY DAY

Canada would not exist without stolen resources: Our economy is ENTIRELY dependent on them.

************************

I am copying this anonymous book review here about the same book this thread is about. I believe the authors intent has been misinterpreted here, and this review gives another perspective (bold added):

Dances with Dependency

Indigenous Success through Self-Reliance

by Calvin Darrell Helin

http://www.spiritorca.com/home.shtml

If this is out of line or I'm not qualified to comment, then please delete this.

I've not always been the most sympathetic towards the native community because I saw them as dependants on the system, always looking for what the government could do for them.

I knew that they suffered great misfortune, and still do, and I dismissed this as a toxic fixation on the past, and ignored the effect on the people and the community. I didn't realize how damaging and divisive this was to the native community.

This book made me see that the indigenous peoples had a strong, organized, and religious community, before we arrived. I mocked that before but I now correct that. It also made clear that the evil and paternal nature of trying to absorb natives into Canadian culture is wrong. To put it in the proper perspective, Canadians are part of native culture.

The gyst of the book is that that natives have huge economic potential, a rising population an need for a solid industry that keeps the money that they get from the feds in their community, more that any casino or rental condominium ever could. Native communities stand to succeed a great deal by recognizing this potential, educating and using their people. By recognizing the problems and moving to their own solutions, natives can break the cycle of dependency and take control of their future in a positive, dominant way.

just fyi.

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Link please?

loosening Ottawa's grip on reserve-land holdings so that First Nations are free to develop, exploit and borrow against one of the few assets they have;

The author has identified the real issue: Give them back their land.

Land doesn't change anything. The thing that is lacking is the ability to function properly in the modern world because they are hung up on certain issues and perceived historical wrongs. There are people in this country who have gone through hell and back, whose ancestors were persecuted and never have or ever will receive any compensation for it, who don't allow this from participating fully and functionally in Canadian society, contributing to it rather than trying to destroy it. I have no sympathy for people who refuse to succeed because they perceive everything around them, all knowledge and education, to be the product of "the white man".

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No it isn't. We take billion$ in resources from their land PER DAY, EVERY DAY

Canada would not exist without stolen resources: Our economy is ENTIRELY dependent on them.

Who is the "they" in "their land"? Before Europeans came to North America, the First Nations fought amongst themselves and one band would take land and property as the spoils of war from another; what you would describe as "stealing." Given the ratio of pre-colonial population to land mass, most of our resources come from land that never "belonged" to anyone.

The oppression of the natives by the greedy white man is mostly the creation of guilt ridden cultural cringers too politically correct in mindset to state the honest truth.

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Who is the "they" in "their land"? Before Europeans came to North America, the First Nations fought amongst themselves and one band would take land and property as the spoils of war from another; what you would describe as "stealing." Given the ratio of pre-colonial population to land mass, most of our resources come from land that never "belonged" to anyone.

The oppression of the natives by the greedy white man is mostly the creation of guilt ridden cultural cringers too politically correct in mindset to state the honest truth.

Wrong. Don't believe your governments. They lie to you.

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Land doesn't change anything. The thing that is lacking is the ability to function properly in the modern world because they are hung up on certain issues and perceived historical wrongs. There are people in this country who have gone through hell and back, whose ancestors were persecuted and never have or ever will receive any compensation for it, who don't allow this from participating fully and functionally in Canadian society, contributing to it rather than trying to destroy it. I have no sympathy for people who refuse to succeed because they perceive everything around them, all knowledge and education, to be the product of "the white man".

If land doesn't change anything, then you have no problem recognizing their land rights, correct?

Land changes everything because it makes them no longer dependent on Canada. It has value that can be turned into self-sufficiency, and opportunity for population and economic development. Leasing it back to us provides income, for example.

Land is the key.

You don't know anything about them. You never even spoke to a native person to truly find out their perspective. Of course, they won't speak to you anyway. Why would they? !! <_<

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The oppression of the natives by the greedy white man is mostly the creation of guilt ridden cultural cringers too politically correct in mindset to state the honest truth.

Whatever one's take on the current state of native affairs and the way forward for Canada's aboriginals, is there anything to be gained by denying history? That North America's native population was oppressed by the European colonists is the honest truth.

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Who is the "they" in "their land"? Before Europeans came to North America, the First Nations fought amongst themselves and one band would take land and property as the spoils of war from another; what you would describe as "stealing." Given the ratio of pre-colonial population to land mass, most of our resources come from land that never "belonged" to anyone.

The oppression of the natives by the greedy white man is mostly the creation of guilt ridden cultural cringers too politically correct in mindset to state the honest truth.

I beg to differ:

The land theft deal referred to in this film (below) occurred in the 1990's. The deaths of children in that school were and are denied by the United Church to this day, but they happened as they did in every residential school. And it was and is all about the land and the resources that we steal from their land every day: billion$ ... every day ... and they get nothing. "The oppression of the natives by the greedy whiteman" is not only true in history, it is still true today ... every day.

http://www.hiddenfromhistory.org/#LiveContent[thevid]

Edited by joan
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When the government expropriates land they pay for it. What if they never did?

The land goes back, that's what.

It always seems to be those who have no land and pay no taxes who are so weepy and nobly willing to sacrifice on behalf of the poor aborigines.

The land goes back. What an idiotic simplification of a hideously complex issue. Are you willing to give the natives a few hundred billion dollars, impoverishing the rest of us in order to assuage your bleeding heart? I'm not. I didn't take any land. I bought what I own. Any native that wants it can come and try and take it the way our ancestors took it from theirs.

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It always seems to be those who have no land and pay no taxes who are so weepy and nobly willing to sacrifice on behalf of the poor aborigines.

The land goes back. What an idiotic simplification of a hideously complex issue. Are you willing to give the natives a few hundred billion dollars, impoverishing the rest of us in order to assuage your bleeding heart? I'm not. I didn't take any land. I bought what I own. Any native that wants it can come and try and take it the way our ancestors took it from theirs.

Buyer beware! There is a lien on your property that the government didn't tell you about! :lol:

All Canadians know we live on native land. It is no surprise to anyone without their head in the sand.

I own property. I know it is theirs. If they want it (which isn't likely), I will sue the government to recover my investment. It is the government that broke the law by selling land it had no title to.

It truly is as simple as that: If you default on payment for your property, you lose it. Same goes for Canada: If it is proven the land was improperly obtained, or was not paid for, ownership reverts to Six Nations.

I expect they will be generous with us, though, if we are nice to them, but the govs keep being nasty, which is pretty stupid!

- There also is a Supreme Court ruling that says settlements will "balance" the interests of both parties.

- Alternate land can be substituted.

- Willing seller/willing buyer

It is quite doable, and it will be wonderful to have things finally made right, imo.

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Wrong. Don't believe your governments. They lie to you.

Well, I learned long ago that our governments lie to us. What I haven't learned is why I should believe Six Nations!

Just because one side is bad does not automatically mean the other is good. They can both be bad.

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Well, I learned long ago that our governments lie to us. What I haven't learned is why I should believe Six Nations!

Just because one side is bad does not automatically mean the other is good. They can both be bad.

You don't have to believe Six Nations. You just have to learn about Canadian law: Treaty law, Constitutional law and Common law, in that order of precedence.

Regarding current issues, this is the critical part of Constitutional law (Sec 35):

http://www.lawsonlundell.com/resources/TheCrownsDuty.pdf

Recent case law from the Supreme Court of Canada (Haida and Taku) has confirmed

that the Crown has a duty to consult, and if necessary, accommodate Aboriginal interests

when it has knowledge, real or constructive, of the potential existence of an Aboriginal right or title

and contemplates conduct that might adversely affect it.

If you read it carefully, it is clear that the Crown (in this case the province, which is also responsible for the municipalities) must address Six Nations concerns PRIOR TO permitting any development on the disputed land. That has not happened. Ontario is evading the law.

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And WE ARE NOT ALONE ...

Assertion of rights on traditional Indigenous lands is a worldwide issue:

http://www.dominionpaper.ca/articles/1616

Indigenous Rights and the Mayan Victory in Belize

Implications for Indigenous Title Rights in Canada

http://americas.irc-online.org/am/4907

Energy Development Threatens Native Lands (U.S.)

http://www.1-1-2008.com/wiki/index.php?tit...ndence_movement

Independence movement: Republic of Lakotah (U.S.)

On December 20, 2007, Indian activists announced the withdrawal of their group of Lakota Sioux from all treaties with the United States government.

http://upsidedownworld.org/main/content/view/1099/68/

Chile-Argentina: Pascua Lama Mining Project on Hold

Written by Daniela Estrada*

Tuesday, 22 January 2008

(Tierramérica) - Nearly two years after winning environmental approval from the Chilean government, the controversial Pascua Lama gold mining project of the transnational Barrick Gold Corporation remains without a launch date.

And elsewhere in Ontario ...

SHABOT FIRST NATION CHIEF ENCOURAGED BY URANIUM MINE TALKS

Chief Doreen Davis, of the Shabot Obaadjiwan First Nation indicated yesterday that she is pleased by the progress of mediated discussions that have been taking place between the Government of Ontario and her Community since December 2007. The mediation is with regard to a dispute over proposed uranium mining exploration near Sharbot Lake, Ontario on traditional First Nation lands that are the subject of on going land claims negotiations.

Quite simply, imo, the 21st century is the century of Indigenous Peoples ... and the environment.

Edited by joan
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No problem if you have the documents, go for it! :lol:

The point has flew past you entirely. I don't give a f--ckin damn bout ancestrial land. If we went by that we'd be too tangled up in legal matters of land that never belonged to us.

If i screw a native and we have a kid does he have land claims then?

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The point has flew past you entirely. I don't give a f--ckin damn bout ancestrial land. If we went by that we'd be too tangled up in legal matters of land that never belonged to us.

If i screw a native and we have a kid does he have land claims then?

No the point was you want your family's land back, and for that you have just as much right as Aboriginal people, IF you have lawful evidence of ownership, as they have.

I am not sure what the rules are for membership in Indigenous Nations. You might want to check it out before you make a hasty decision to go that route. :lol:

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