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How can we trust the police?


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If you check you will find it happens quite often in our legal system, rarely in cases where police officers are the ones charged. Justice delayed is justice denied. Drives cops nuts as well when they have a case thrown out for the same reason.

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... when other cops or the Prosecution routinely delay submission of papers so that officers charged for corruption routinely get off!!???!!!

Well, let's just get rid of them. Yeah...that'll work.

--------------------------------------------

His daughter Rachel was continually phoning his cell phone to hear his voice.

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BC stats show that about 250 citizens have died in their control since about 2003 until 2007 or there abouts. You are far more likely to be killed by a cop than a terrorist.

Horse crap.

Some 267 people have died in police custody or in police-involved deaths in B.C. from 1992 to 2007, with 53 involving Vancouver police, according to the B.C. Coroners Service.

The detailed spreadsheet, called "B.C. Coroners Service Statistics, 1992-2007, B.C. custody/police-involved deaths," lists deaths by gender, age and classification by coroner as accident, homicide, natural, suicide or undetermined.

The cause of the police-related deaths is broken down into categories of "police custody -- cell/lockup, police shooting, police auto pursuit, and police 'other,'" for every municipality from Abbotsford to Yahk.

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If you check you will find it happens quite often in our legal system, rarely in cases where police officers are the ones charged. Justice delayed is justice denied. Drives cops nuts as well when they have a case thrown out for the same reason.

Thanks for staying on topic. I am sick and tired of hearing this excuse for cops not going to trial.

These cops in particular ... that drug squad ... has a long reputation for corruption, were in the news a lot when they were charged, but then it just gets buried ... NO TRIAL no nothing.

Disgusting. Why should we trust our police when they are not subject to the same system of justice as us?

I think the cops better get their act together and realize that their credibility is in the toilet and that might just be related to increases in crime.

Edited by joan
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You can read into it what you want. My point was that this doesn't just happen in cases where police officers are charged, it happens quite often in other cases as well. Our legal system has become so cumbersome that is doesn't seem able to do much of anything in less than a year.

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You can read into it what you want. My point was that this doesn't just happen in cases where police officers are charged, it happens quite often in other cases as well. Our legal system has become so cumbersome that is doesn't seem able to do much of anything in less than a year.

Sorry Wilbur ... I don't agree. I think it is selectively applied to cops.

They just don't think they should have to answer to the public and I think that stinks.

Clearly the prosecution is in collusion on this, paying off favours to cops no doubt.

Why should the cops not be accountable for crimes?

Why do they so strenuously avoid civilian oversight?

What are they hiding?

There is something very wrong in our policing system, imo.

This is sick.

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September 25, 2007

And They Usually Get Away With It

A Pandemic of Police Brutality

By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

Bush's "war on terror" quickly became Bush's war on Iraqi civilians. So far over one million Iraqi civilians have lost their lives because of Bush's invasion, and four million have been displaced. Iraq's infrastructure is in ruins. Disease is rampart. Normal life has disappeared.

DELETED by moderator

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts09252007.html

No matter how gratuitous and violent the police brutality, a "free" American citizen can defend himself only at the expense, if not of his life, of a long stay in prison. Osama bin Laden must wish that he had such power over Americans.

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. He is coauthor of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.He can be reached at: [email protected]

Edited by Charles Anthony
re-copied article deleted
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I don't know about this particular case but do some research. You will find it is not uncommon for this to happen in all sorts of cases.

But why the complacency? WTF is wrong with our society? Have we really become so apathetic (emphasis on the "pathetic") that we just shrug our shoulders when we see 6 years of delay leading to a stay of proceedings on charges of cops obstructing justice, extorting, perjuring and assaulting?

Citizens rioted in the streets when Rocket Richard got suspended from a hockey game...but we all sit back in our SUV's drinking cappucino and thinking about our next chiropractic visit when we see this kind of story today.

What in the hell ever happened to accountability...and the citizenry demanding it of our public officials?

FTA

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But why the complacency? WTF is wrong with our society? Have we really become so apathetic (emphasis on the "pathetic") that we just shrug our shoulders when we see 6 years of delay leading to a stay of proceedings on charges of cops obstructing justice, extorting, perjuring and assaulting?

Citizens rioted in the streets when Rocket Richard got suspended from a hockey game...but we all sit back in our SUV's drinking cappucino and thinking about our next chiropractic visit when we see this kind of story today.

What in the hell ever happened to accountability...and the citizenry demanding it of our public officials?

FTA

C'mon FTA. You of anyone should know that the Justice system is only accountable to the Crown! It is always in the best interest of the Crown to hide these things away from public sight. Any hint that there might be corruption in the justice system would lose the trust of the commoner. And if that happened, you would likely be out of a job.

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Sorry Wilbur ... I don't agree. I think it is selectively applied to cops.

They just don't think they should have to answer to the public and I think that stinks.

Clearly the prosecution is in collusion on this, paying off favours to cops no doubt.

Why should the cops not be accountable for crimes?

Why do they so strenuously avoid civilian oversight?

What are they hiding?

There is something very wrong in our policing system, imo.

This is sick.

As a lawyer I find this very worrisome. To start with the delay lends to the appearance it was deliberate so that the police could get off. Whether that is true or not we do not know but the appearance is there.

Secondly, there is just too much periphreal evidence, not specific to any one police officer but still indicating serious systemic issues in accountability.

All your questions or the cynicism expressed by the other posters is the necessary and inevitable reaction of the public.

The police have a special fiduciary duty to honour the very laws they are sworn to uphold and quite frankly this looks very bad.

No I will not smeer or slur police officers and suggest they are all corupt, ignorant, sadistic, etc. That is ignorance. That stereotypes and assigns negative generalizations to an entire group because of the putrid actions of a few.

On the other hand, this needs to be cleaned up and for that to happen an outside investigation needs to be conducted.

What I suspect is there are many levels of alleged coruption. One is just outright coruption with the police officer on the take-pure and simple. How prevalent that is no one knows because of the very nature of the blue curtain and how hard it is to penetrate and the price a police officer would pay to go undercover and try expose it.

Then there is another kind of coruption. In this one, the police officer breaks the law to enforce it. He sells drugs to make money to pay informants to go after big fish. The cop makes his money off off heroin addicts who will rob people anyways and this way they are kept controlled and serve as low level informants.

I do not doubt their is planting of evidence to frame certain people who would otherwise get off.

There is a very grey area of police enforcement where police will do what they have to do to get someone off the street but its usually with someone known to them and a repeat offender not a first timer.

I am not sure what to say to the public. On the one hand its wrong to break the law for any reason and if we break it enforcing it, we become the very criminals we are sworn to protect society from. But there is this twilight zone this grey area where theory and reality do not meet and where obeying the law in fact enables it to be broken. It renders the moral landscape very confused and many a good cop gets caught trying to navigate their way through it.

Me personally I believe methadone clinics should be instituted to give heroin addicts an alternative. I am a strong believer in therapeutic jurisprudence where non violent offenders are pulled from the main criminal system on their consent and agree to rehabilitation and alternative measures such as work projects and house arrest because they are treated for what they are drug addicts who resort to petty crime.

The big time crime syndicates, well who is kidding who. They can afford the best lawyers, the best accountants and the best politicians and banks as their cover. They run entire countries and their political connections traverse the world and all governments.

In this case, there is the obvious appearance of coruption and it will only get worse unless its lanced and drained and to do that there needs to be an inquiry and very thorough outside investigation not limited by special interest groups and politicians.

Edited by Rue
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But why the complacency? WTF is wrong with our society? Have we really become so apathetic (emphasis on the "pathetic") that we just shrug our shoulders when we see 6 years of delay leading to a stay of proceedings on charges of cops obstructing justice, extorting, perjuring and assaulting?

Citizens rioted in the streets when Rocket Richard got suspended from a hockey game...but we all sit back in our SUV's drinking cappucino and thinking about our next chiropractic visit when we see this kind of story today.

What in the hell ever happened to accountability...and the citizenry demanding it of our public officials?

FTA

Possibly because we have become accustomed to having cases take years getting to trial and often more years until appeals are exhausted. It now seems to be the norm rather than the exception. The process has become more important than the result. I don't know whether these guys are guilty or not but both they and society deserved their day in court. Society has questions unanswered and they are left with a public presumption of guilt. Not good at any time for anyone, let alone cops or public officials.

If you could get a case dismissed because it took too long to get your client to trial, would you consider justice served? Would you consider that person to have been held accountable. Would you consider that a win?

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Possibly because we have become accustomed to having cases take years getting to trial and often more years until appeals are exhausted. It now seems to be the norm rather than the exception. The process has become more important than the result. I don't know whether these guys are guilty or not but both they and society deserved their day in court. Society has questions unanswered and they are left with a public presumption of guilt. Not good at any time for anyone, let alone cops or public officials.

If you could get a case dismissed because it took too long to get your client to trial, would you consider justice served? Would you consider that person to have been held accountable. Would you consider that a win?

I have had cases dismissed because of delay in the police / prosecution providing disclosure of the case against my client.

R. v. Moore

R. v. Gateway Collections

As an advocate for my client...absolutely these are wins. As a citizen weighing the balance of whether justice has been served, interestingly, that is the overriding factor for a judge in making a decision on this type of an application. Ultimately, the court is asked to decide which will tend to bring the administration of justice into more disrepute...the tossing of the charges, or the forcing of an accused to undergo an unfair trial process.

The problem as I see it, is that the general public doesn't give a damn. Oh sure, people spout off about the "injustice system" etc., but if asked to put tax dollars into it, or to stand up and get involved in trying to fix things...everyone is simply too busy.

FTA

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The problem as I see it, is that the general public doesn't give a damn. Oh sure, people spout off about the "injustice system" etc., but if asked to put tax dollars into it, or to stand up and get involved in trying to fix things...everyone is simply too busy.

There may be some truth to that but I think the biggest reason the public has become so apathetic is because they believe that the system has become too unwieldy. Any solutions involve somehow making the system more responsive and efficient, something that is not going to happen internally and continues to be exacerbated by its own decisions concerning the Charter. Something that can't be changed by merely throwing more money at it.

In short, a legal system that is so wrapped up in its own processes, it's own unbelievably complex set of rules whereby any misstep can result in an acquittal, that much of the public believes their interests are seen as secondary. Many have just given up on it when it comes to a likelihood the result will somehow resemble their concept of justice.

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There may be some truth to that but I think the biggest reason the public has become so apathetic is because they believe that the system has become too unwieldy. Any solutions involve somehow making the system more responsive and efficient, something that is not going to happen internally and continues to be exacerbated by its own decisions concerning the Charter. Something that can't be changed by merely throwing more money at it.

In short, a legal system that is so wrapped up in its own processes, it's own unbelievably complex set of rules whereby any misstep can result in an acquittal, that much of the public believes their interests are seen as secondary. Many have just given up on it when it comes to a likelihood the result will somehow resemble their concept of justice.

The police are the ultimate power. They are our standing army. Most enter the force to serve because they believe in maintaining order and goodness. It is not the police that are corrupt. If you get to know them you will find that most are frustrated and disillusioned with the judicary..once the trust and confidence of the police lost because of a cowardly and corrupt judicary - all power is lost. A politician or buisness leader can declare all the laws they want and they do not mean squat...for without the man and woman in blue who carry an instrument of deadly force on their hips...the political has no power what so ever - the power comes from the cops gun.

..Our leaders could pass a million laws and without the cops we would just laugh in their face..what are they going to do - bodily beat us up if we do not comply? I adore the cops and stand by them..they are the only ones who truely understand the sewer that is society at the high and low end - cops are tops and are not corrupt - it's the jerks who attempt to control the cops that are creepy...so in the short run...I for one support these fine men and women if full - for they are the only ones with real power - the rest are just rats who coerce lie and cheat to get their way and expect the cops to do their dirty work.

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