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joan

How can we trust the police?

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BC stats show that about 250 citizens have died in their control since about 2003 until 2007 or there abouts. You are far more likely to be killed by a cop than a terrorist.

Would you care to show us these stats? I'm going to assume they include all in custody, including in prison, and that you're blaming cops for the deaths of prisoners who kill each other, or for that matter, who die of heart attacks of cancer while in custody.

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We can't they seem to be populated by sadist's who enjoy Tasering people.

Generally speaking, if you don't act like a dick, the police won't have to taser you.

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But why the complacency? WTF is wrong with our society? Have we really become so apathetic (emphasis on the "pathetic") that we just shrug our shoulders when we see 6 years of delay leading to a stay of proceedings on charges of cops obstructing justice, extorting, perjuring and assaulting?

Citizens rioted in the streets when Rocket Richard got suspended from a hockey game...but we all sit back in our SUV's drinking cappucino and thinking about our next chiropractic visit when we see this kind of story today.

What in the hell ever happened to accountability...and the citizenry demanding it of our public officials?

FTA

There isn't much we can do with a system built by lawyers. Ask the lawyers to change it? Riiiight. And the Supreme Court - populated by lawyers - will say no. This system is a mish-mash of legislation - some of it badly written - and a wild assortment of often contradictory precedents set by glory-hungry lawyers and arrogant judges. No one knows what the law even is any more, including the judges, and there are so many avenues of appeals that virtually any lawyer can drag virtually any case on for years if he feels that's more profitable to him.

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There isn't much we can do with a system built by lawyers. Ask the lawyers to change it? Riiiight. And the Supreme Court - populated by lawyers - will say no. This system is a mish-mash of legislation - some of it badly written - and a wild assortment of often contradictory precedents set by glory-hungry lawyers and arrogant judges. No one knows what the law even is any more, including the judges, and there are so many avenues of appeals that virtually any lawyer can drag virtually any case on for years if he feels that's more profitable to him.

For someone who expects rbacon to provide stats to back up his seemingly improper "blaming of cops" for in custody deaths, you seem to very thoroughly spaz about evil profiteering lawyers being the root of all problems without any stats or other objective information (as opposed to hyperbolic opinion).

Bravo on such well-considered intellectual debate.

FTA

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Dear Argus,

Generally speaking, if you don't act like a dick, the police won't have to taser you.
I have to agree here. My wife and our manager were assaulted a couple of weeks ago by a drugged-out waste case (female) on the steps of our business. The police and an ambulance were called out. It took 3 cops to subdue her (even though my wife and our manager, both Guardian Angels, had restrained her until the cops arrived). They loaded her into the ambulance for about 15 min...then she was taken out of the back with a cloth bag over her head and loaded into the back of the paddy wagon. Evidently she was continually spitting at the EMS guys. Not a tasering offence, but they have to do what they can to protect themselves.

The taser, though imperfect, is meant to be a help to the violent criminal, as a substitute to the baton or the gun. If someone is attacking a police officer, especially when they have gone off their rocker (due to drugs or mental instability), the previous 'last resorts' were to beat them unconscious or to shoot them.

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For someone who expects rbacon to provide stats to back up his seemingly improper "blaming of cops" for in custody deaths, you seem to very thoroughly spaz about evil profiteering lawyers being the root of all problems without any stats or other objective information (as opposed to hyperbolic opinion).

Bravo on such well-considered intellectual debate.

FTA

A typical arrogant, sarcastic reply from FTA, one the supposedly good guy's, that is is at the root of a dysfunctional and often corrupt legal system.

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A typical arrogant, sarcastic reply from FTA, one the supposedly good guy's, that is is at the root of a dysfunctional and often corrupt legal system.

Gold Jerry Gold !

The hits just keep on coming.

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A typical arrogant, sarcastic reply from FTA, one the supposedly good guy's, that is is at the root of a dysfunctional and often corrupt legal system.

Well, here's my problem. I am an insider in the system, I attempt to open debate about why people are apathetic about the short-comings of the system, in light of what I view as a particularly brutal example that has been put up in the original post, and I am met with comments that really amount to "lawyers suck and its all their fault...oh and lawyers suck...sucky lawyers...and they make money while they suck..."

If you won't even try to effect positive change with someone who could bring about such change (maybe a bit idealistic...but I'm not yet ready to just give up) through a meaningful discussion, then well, I guess I'll just have to go on being a sucky lawyer in a sucky system...that I caused personally in the 5 years that I've been a lawyer.

FTA

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I guess I'll just have to go on being a sucky lawyer in a sucky system...that I caused personally in the 5 years that I've been a lawyer.

FTA

Sucks to be you eh? Sorry, but I couldn't resist.

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How many of the following things has the New Canadian State been guilty of doing to it's citizens..........................................................Invoking an external and internal threat

Establishing secret prisons

Developing a paramilitary force

Surveiling ordinary citizens

Infiltrating citizens' groups

Arbitrarily detaining and releasing citizens

Targeting key individuals

Restricting the press

Casting criticism as "espionage" and dissent as "treason"

Subverting the rule of law

I would say all of them......

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How many of the following things has the New Canadian State been guilty of doing to it's citizens..........................................................Invoking an external and internal threat

Establishing secret prisons

Developing a paramilitary force

Surveiling ordinary citizens

Infiltrating citizens' groups

Arbitrarily detaining and releasing citizens

Targeting key individuals

Restricting the press

Casting criticism as "espionage" and dissent as "treason"

Subverting the rule of law

I would say all of them......

I would say none and I believe I am correct.

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I find it interesting that some here have already assumed these cops are guilty when they were CHARGED, not CONVICTED. That means they are innocent. Innocent until proven guilty. Or does that only apply to the dirt bags that the dirt bag defence lawyers represent?

I have the utmost respect for the men and women that put their lives on the line and provide the citizens with the measure of safety that they so righteously spit on.

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The facts are more Canadian's have died at the hands of Police than have been killed by terrorists in Canada.

Yes and it also is true that more Canadians died at the hands of unemployed people then terrorists as well. Whats your point? Shut up, get down, and don't attack. Keeps you from feeling lead.

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The police are the ultimate power. They are our standing army. Most enter the force to serve because they believe in maintaining order and goodness. It is not the police that are corrupt. If you get to know them you will find that most are frustrated and disillusioned with the judicary..once the trust and confidence of the police lost because of a cowardly and corrupt judicary - all power is lost. A politician or buisness leader can declare all the laws they want and they do not mean squat...for without the man and woman in blue who carry an instrument of deadly force on their hips...the political has no power what so ever - the power comes from the cops gun.

..Our leaders could pass a million laws and without the cops we would just laugh in their face..what are they going to do - bodily beat us up if we do not comply? I adore the cops and stand by them..they are the only ones who truely understand the sewer that is society at the high and low end - cops are tops and are not corrupt - it's the jerks who attempt to control the cops that are creepy...so in the short run...I for one support these fine men and women if full - for they are the only ones with real power - the rest are just rats who coerce lie and cheat to get their way and expect the cops to do their dirty work.

Couldnt agree more.

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Generally speaking, if you don't act like a dick, the police won't have to taser you.

Exactly. Police don't just go pulling innocent people off the streets and tasering them. Idiots.

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Most of the guys I work with (including my boss's boss) were all cops. RCMP, city, K-division, etc. Our lead for investigations and security was drug squad.

Were they corrupt? Don't think so.

Were they weird? Absolutely.

The "attitude adjustments" by the pink bunny prove that. (The boys on night shift used to give the odd asshole in the cells a thumping while wearing a pink bunny suit. What's the guy gonna say? "Yer honor, a huge pink bunny beat the **** out of me!") It didn't happen very often, but when it did, apparently it was funny as hell.

Cops are big on protecting cops. They call it the "blue wall". You think you got a cop nailed to the wall, but mysteriously no one saw anything. Thirty officers in the room, and no one saw anything. Can you blame them? Police get the ultimate double standard held up to them. They can't so much as use foul language against some scumbag that tries to shoot them.

Dirty cops are a fact of life. Just like dirty politicians. Just like doctors that accept $500.00 per patient from the WCB for looking at a worker and saying "you're fine". The system exists, and you can't do a damn thing about it so quit whining. Are most cops good at heart? Of course.

Remember, dirty or not...some crack-head tries to break into your house at 3am and you call 911..you'll be glad that that "dirty cop" shot the son of a bitch in the head.

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The facts are more Canadian's have died at the hands of Police than have been killed by terrorists in Canada.

In your condemnation of the police in general, have you taken into consideration the 280 Canadians that were killed by terrorists in the Air India bombing? Sure they were in an airplane off the coast of Ireland when they were murdered, but they were Canadians and the plot was hatched in Canada. Kinda screws your factual presumption.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/backgrounde...s_sabotage.html

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Canadian Police are corrupt. Just like the famous PeaceKeeper's. Look at how the famous Peace Keeper's have been raping children in Africa and getting away with it, because Canadians worship the UN. The Air India Bombing did not happen in Canada. Did you not understand what I wrote. I said more people have died at the hands of Canadian Police, who are starting to look kind of sadistic the way they herd human beings like Gestapo with animal prods. Than have died at the hands of terrorists in Canada. Fear the Police they have become sadistic and brutal.

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The Air India Bombing did not happen in Canada.

Both bombs were originally put on CP Air aircraft in Vancouver by Sikh extremists in living in BC. One was transfered onto an Air India aircraft in Toronto and the other blew up in Tokyo killing two baggage handlers before being transferred onto an Air India aircraft. Capricorn is right.

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Blaming lawyers or FTA for coruption in the legal system makes as much sense as making a blanket statement that all cops are corupt. Generalizations. All they do is look for quick scapegoats to blame.

The same people who shit on FTA for being a lawyer would be the same people screaming for a lawyer if they were arrested.

Here is the point. Coruption like any human behaviour is complex. Its not a matter of blaming someone who wants to be a cop or lawyer and make a difference.

In every profession there are good people and bad people. I know damn good lawyers and damn bad ones and every variation in between. I could say the same about cops, teachers, doctors, dentists, and hey now posters on this forum.

Y'all got a problem with the legal system look in the mirror and stop trying to scapegoat someone you do not know and what he stands for.

The legal system is what it is because we are what we are-willing to accept things without questioning and looking the other way.

You want the system cleaned up start with your own back yard. How many of you pointing fingers do not break the law? Who me speed? Who me not pay my taxes? Who me? Who me make a fake claim? Nah.

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Dear Argus,

I have to agree here. My wife and our manager were assaulted a couple of weeks ago by a drugged-out waste case (female) on the steps of our business. The police and an ambulance were called out. It took 3 cops to subdue her (even though my wife and our manager, both Guardian Angels, had restrained her until the cops arrived). They loaded her into the ambulance for about 15 min...then she was taken out of the back with a cloth bag over her head and loaded into the back of the paddy wagon. Evidently she was continually spitting at the EMS guys. Not a tasering offence, but they have to do what they can to protect themselves.

The taser, though imperfect, is meant to be a help to the violent criminal, as a substitute to the baton or the gun. If someone is attacking a police officer, especially when they have gone off their rocker (due to drugs or mental instability), the previous 'last resorts' were to beat them unconscious or to shoot them.

I think every "guardian angel" deserves a good shitkicking. If some holier than thou douchebag in a red beret came over and tried to citizen's arrest me for anything, I'd make them sorry they tried to play "cop". If you think you have the right to play vigilante with people who you "deem" to be criminals, then I say they have just as much right to go vigilante right back on your ass for violating their right to not be hassled by redeck dumbshits. I'm really seriously not sorry for any trouble that being a red beret wearing asshole with a superiority complex may bring you.

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Well, here's my problem. I am an insider in the system, I attempt to open debate about why people are apathetic about the short-comings of the system, in light of what I view as a particularly brutal example that has been put up in the original post, and I am met with comments that really amount to "lawyers suck and its all their fault...oh and lawyers suck...sucky lawyers...and they make money while they suck..."

If you won't even try to effect positive change with someone who could bring about such change (maybe a bit idealistic...but I'm not yet ready to just give up) through a meaningful discussion, then well, I guess I'll just have to go on being a sucky lawyer in a sucky system...that I caused personally in the 5 years that I've been a lawyer.

FTA

I am with you. Lawyers are the ones who keep drawing our attantion to this crap. Some of them pay a big price for it. Look at what happened to Rocco Galati!

I don't know what happened with this case, but the police are one of the guardians of the justice system (the Ministries, judges and lawyers are the others) and it seems to me that any case involving them should be expedited as a bulwark to the entegrity of the system and that a delay like this should be scrutinized.

There are a lot of damned fine lawyers out there and damned fine cops too. But no system should be left to its own devices.

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