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Israel attack on Iran "unavoidable"


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Since when do you believe anything a US of A president says?

What makes you believe that Iran is a threat? That good ol USA intelligence that worked so well to get the US into a never ending war?

We can look at intelligence failures regarding Iraq, and now we can see much bullsh!t when it comes to what the US thinks of Iran.

Fool me twice ... shame on ... durrrrr.

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Agreed....and that is why a new generation of bunker buster was developed to replace the "small" 5,000 lb GBU-28. The Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP) [30,000 lbs], is currently undergoing evaluation.

The problem with a bomb of this size is "what is going to carry it" The MOAB bomb is alittle smaller but is droped out of the back of a herc C-130, normally this bomb is used to clear trees from a forward operating base, still in our lines....

It sounds like a one way mission to me, even after they knock out the air defenses, from the border until the target, the size of that operation would involve "ALOT of planes"....Flying a herc tactically , close to the ground is like trying to ride a bull, it can be done, but it's going to hurt....and it's going to be slow....

Be alot easier to strap on a few tac nuks to an F-15E or F-22 atleast give them half a chance...

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What makes you believe that Iran is a threat? That good ol USA intelligence that worked so well to get the US into a never ending war?

I don't care if Iran is a threat or not. The US is definitely a threat to Iran...since 1979! :lol:

We can look at intelligence failures regarding Iraq, and now we can see much bullsh!t when it comes to what the US thinks of Iran.

Don't confuse "intelligence failures" with foreign policy objectives. Fooling you is the least of American concerns.

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The problem with a bomb of this size is "what is going to carry it" The MOAB bomb is alittle smaller but is droped out of the back of a herc C-130, normally this bomb is used to clear trees from a forward operating base, still in our lines....

It sounds like a one way mission to me, even after they knock out the air defenses, from the border until the target, the size of that operation would involve "ALOT of planes"....Flying a herc tactically , close to the ground is like trying to ride a bull, it can be done, but it's going to hurt....and it's going to be slow....

Be alot easier to strap on a few tac nuks to an F-15E or F-22 atleast give them half a chance...

I'm curious about the Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP) [30,000 lbs]. Is it an American bomb or Israeli? If American, I would think the Iranians would be pretty pissed off that the Americans gave some hardware to the effort. Which in turn would be pretty funny what with all of the hardware they are giving in the effort to keep Iraq a war zone.

Edit: I wikied it and the design is indeed American. Here's some info from the page:

Northrop Grumman have announced the $2.5 million stealth-bomber refit contract on September 19th, 2007. An undisclosed number of the US Air Force's 20 B-2's will each be able to carry two 15 metric ton MOPs.
Edited by sharkman
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Edit: I wikied it and the design is indeed American. Here's some info from the page:

Right....it is an American program to address the observed limitations of the GBU-28 in Iraq. Bomb damage assessments determined that wel engineered bunkers would only be partially damaged. Since the use of a nuclear warhead penetrator has serious international repercussions, a larger bunker buster is being developed to be compatible with existing delivery systems (B-2, B-52, etc.).

This is consistent with ordnance development during WW2 when large conventional bombs were developed for hardened targets (e.g. submarine pens). The British developed a large dambusting "Grand Slam" bomb.

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The British developed a large dambusting "Grand Slam" bomb.

Which by weight (not explosive power) is still the biggest bomb ever....

Yes....it was very large at 22,000 lbs. Put a modern JDAM guidance kit on one and you can do some seriously accurate damage.

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The British developed a large dambusting "Grand Slam" bomb.

Which by weight (not explosive power) is still the biggest bomb ever....

Nah...several thermonuclear weapons of the 50s and early 60s had the Tall Boy and Grand Slam beat. The so-called Tsar-Bomb of the Soviets took all the horse-power an Tu-95 had to muster just to get it into the air and on target...the crew were nearly killed trying to escape the 57 megatonne blast.

------------------------------------------------------

If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting.

---General Curtis Lemay

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I'm curious about the Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP) [30,000 lbs]. Is it an American bomb or Israeli? If American, I would think the Iranians would be pretty pissed off that the Americans gave some hardware to the effort. Which in turn would be pretty funny what with all of the hardware they are giving in the effort to keep Iraq a war zone.

Edit: I wikied it and the design is indeed American. Here's some info from the page:

American not Israeli. Israel's expertise is not in that area but in testing and modifying computer and electric systems and security and surveillance and counter-intelligence information technology. artificial intelligence systems, not munitions like this big bertha bomb.

I personally suspect a lot of the Iran talk is trying to distract people from Olmert's domestic political problems.

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Nah...several thermonuclear weapons of the 50s and early 60s had the Tall Boy and Grand Slam beat. The so-called Tsar-Bomb of the Soviets took all the horse-power an Tu-95 had to muster just to get it into the air and on target...the crew were nearly killed trying to escape the 57 megatonne blast.

------------------------------------------------------

If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting.

---General Curtis Lemay

Read again...weight, not explosive power....

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To me it doesn't seem too realistic that the Israelis could bomb various hardened underground sites in Iran with the bombs and planes they have. It also doesn't seem realistic that they would borrow suitably equipped jets and bombs from the US or have the US do the bombing for them.

Therefore, perhaps this musing by an Israeli minister is just that.

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To me it doesn't seem too realistic that the Israelis could bomb various hardened underground sites in Iran with the bombs and planes they have. It also doesn't seem realistic that they would borrow suitably equipped jets and bombs from the US or have the US do the bombing for them.

Therefore, perhaps this musing by an Israeli minister is just that.

No worries, they will just have Daddy US do it for them... afterall isn't that what the Americans are for?? 3 Billion a year, more cluster bombs when needed, lots of military equipment...

Heck, when Israel says jump the Yanks ask 'how high'!!

Recall what Sharon said wrt the US... or do YOU even have a clue?

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Read again...weight, not explosive power....

I am refering to weight...as well as explosive power. The Tsar Bomb weighed in at a hefty 27 tons!! The Tu-95 is about the size of 3 Lancasters. Much like the modified bomb bays that carried the Tall Boys and Grand Slams, the Tsar Bomb hung under the turbo-jet bomber more or less exposed. YouTube has a few good vids on it. As mentioned, early thermonuclear weapons (Hydrogen Bombs) weighed a lot. The first hydrogen bomb, Ivy Mike, was so large there was no way to weaponize it.

----------------------------------------------

Bombs do not choose. They will hit everything.

---Nikita Khrushchev

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No worries, they will just have Daddy US do it for them... afterall isn't that what the Americans are for?? 3 Billion a year, more cluster bombs when needed, lots of military equipment...

Heck, when Israel says jump the Yanks ask 'how high'!!

Recall what Sharon said wrt the US... or do YOU even have a clue?

You know nothing.

-----------------

Like a sad hallucination,

When I opened up my eyes,

The train had passed the station,

And you were trapped inside...

Yet I never wonder where you went,

I only wonder why,

I wonder why...

---Concrete Blonde

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No worries, they will just have Daddy US do it for them... afterall isn't that what the Americans are for?? 3 Billion a year, more cluster bombs when needed, lots of military equipment...

Heck, when Israel says jump the Yanks ask 'how high'!!

Recall what Sharon said wrt the US... or do YOU even have a clue?

Yes, normally that would be reassuring but this case is different. I just don't see the US bombing Iran because Israel asks them to. Too many repercussions. any other ideas?

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Nah...several thermonuclear weapons of the 50s and early 60s had the Tall Boy and Grand Slam beat. The so-called Tsar-Bomb of the Soviets took all the horse-power an Tu-95 had to muster just to get it into the air and on target...the crew were nearly killed trying to escape the 57 megatonne blast.

I think we're talking non-nuclear here, lest we start WW3. The Tsar Bomba weighed 27 tonnes....but was militarily superfluous. As you know...blast, heat, radiation....with blast effect being inversely proportional to distance squared.

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I think we're talking non-nuclear here, lest we start WW3. The Tsar Bomba weighed 27 tonnes....but was militarily superfluous. As you know...blast, heat, radiation....with blast effect being inversely proportional to distance squared.

Yup mentioned that...crew nearly killed. Apparently it was one of the few times that thermal radiation actually caused severe damage to the aircraft.

M.Dancer mentioned actual weight...several thermonuclear weapons of the 50s and 60s did weigh more. What's der problem...lol?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_17_nuclear_bomb

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_24_nuclear_bomb

If you want me to say it ain't so...I'll try...lol.

------------------------------------

Is that all there is? Is that all there is?

If that's all there is my friend,

Let's keep dancing...

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Yup mentioned that...crew nearly killed. Apparently it was one of the few times that thermal radiation actually caused severe damage to the aircraft.

....If you want me to say it ain't so...I'll try...lol.

It's all good...the US had a T-12 monster at the end of WW2 that weighed 44,000 lbs.

http://members.aol.com/nukeinfo2/#10.%20%2...,000-lb,%20T-12

For me, the point of all this penis measuring is to just point out that when faced with similar military challenges in the past, we simply developed bigger "solutions". :lol:

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It's all good...the US had a T-12 monster at the end of WW2 that weighed 44,000 lbs.

http://members.aol.com/nukeinfo2/#10.%20%2...,000-lb,%20T-12

For me, the point of all this penis measuring is to just point out that when faced with similar military challenges in the past, we simply developed bigger "solutions". :lol:

Speaking of penis... Bush sr. put his arm around GW and said" Son, you made the same mistake with Iraq as I did with your mother, we DIDN`T pull out soon enough!! So true!

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It's all good...the US had a T-12 monster at the end of WW2 that weighed 44,000 lbs.

http://members.aol.com/nukeinfo2/#10.%20%2...,000-lb,%20T-12

For me, the point of all this penis measuring is to just point out that when faced with similar military challenges in the past, we simply developed bigger "solutions". :lol:

Seems like a Grand Slam-like weapon...penetrate...explode...bye, bye. Only...lol...'only'...22,000 lbs, though.

Like the American manufactured Tallboy, the American version of the Grand Slam was produced in cast and welded versions. The Bomb, General Purpose (GP), 22,000-lb, M110 (T14) as the American Grand Slam was called, was 150 “ in length, 46” in diameter, filled with 9,600 lb of Tritonal (41.6% of total) and weighed 22,850 lb. Early production examples were filled with 9,200 lb (41% of total weight) of Torpex with a 1” layer of TNT across the rear of the casing weighing 22,113 lb fully assembled. An armor piercing plug was fitted to the nose of the cast casings.

----------------------------------

Who's on first?

---Abbott & Costello

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  • 2 weeks later...

In a new development that adds weight to the previous comments by the Israeli transport minister, Israel carried out a major military exercise involving over 100 fighter jets said to simulate long range strikes this week.

I am concerned about this, but I don't think Israel has much choice, they have to deal with the dirty work because no one else will.

Edited by sharkman
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And now the tricky part. Who do you fly over to get to Iran? Syria, Jordon or Saudi Arabia? Iraq shouldn't be a problem. In fact they'll no doubt be refueling over Iraq more than once. So you got to figure the US is probably going to provide some sort of logistical support. They'll have a hard time getting the element of surprise, so I imagine they'll be going in en masse. Probably layered (hi-med-lo). Probably way more fighters than bombers. Heavy on the ECM.

--------------------------------------------

It is better that one's customers come to one's shop than to have to look for them abroad.

---Manfred Von Richthofen (it's better to dogfight over home turf)

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