Jump to content
Political Discussion Forums

Liberals In Trouble


Recommended Posts

For the first time since they got elected in 1993, I believe the Liberals are in political trouble with this erupting scandal.

Will they still go to the polls right away, or will they wait hoping that things will blow over?

If they wait they allow time for the new CPC to gell.

I still think they will go right away, but I do not believe they will get a majority government.

The CBC went out and visited 3 ridings today including PM Martin's riding in the Montreal area.

Judging by the comments of the folks that live there, PM Martin might be in trouble in his own riding.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 115
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Well the Liberal civil war has started and the gloves came off today.

We've had anonymous Martin sources blaming Chretien.

We've had threats of lawsiuts in retaliation.

And we've had a senator threaten Martin if he tries to blame Chretien.

I wonder what the other parties are up to.

Oh yea, Belinda is in Quebec practicing her French. ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

someone please sum up all these numbers for me....

so we got that goveners generals visit

planned 1M

actual 5.3M

gun registry

planned 2M

actual 2B??????

sponsorship?

how much money are we talking about? how much was lost vs redistributed via corruption. i havnt seen any numbers

sirriff

Link to post
Share on other sites
Well the Liberal civil war has started and the gloves came off today.

We've had anonymous Martin sources blaming Chretien.

We've had threats of lawsiuts in retaliation.

And we've had a senator threaten Martin if he tries to blame Chretien........

This could get really messy for the Grits if they decide to air all their dirty laundry in public view.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This 'scandal' is genuinely interesting. Let's see how it plays out because at this point, it's as unpredictable as a 'roll of the die'.

Some various and conflicting thoughts:

Paul Martin doesn't have the deft Liberal touch. Compare what happened to Rock and Copps. Copps is a partisan Liberal's Liberal.

Chretien always said 'I must be doing something right because I'm at 60 in the polls'. The guy had it - more than Trudeau even. Paul Martin doesn't. I don't know what 'it' is. Liberals are ambitious and slick and a majority of Canadians accept this. The Tories and NDP are amateurs. There's something about Paul Martin that's not right. He wears his ambition and slickness wrong.

There's no alternative. In 1984, Mulroney was an unknown but an alternative. He really played hard in Quebec and as a result, got Ontario on board as a National Leader.

What gives with the Quebec angle on this scandal? Heck, it's like Diefenbaker, Sevigny or something. Tainted meat. In PC Canada, everyone seems to tiptoe around this.

Am I the only one to get the impression Paul Martin is doing the Nixon "Operation Candor", "widest FBI investigation in history", "get to the bottom of this", "punish the guilty" etc. Are we going into the "what did he know and when did he know it" mode?

Is there not something pathetic about a country that requires a government bureaucrat to create a political scandal through a press conference about an audit? (Most boring headline: "Canada Proposes Policy") I mean this is not 'news'. The G+M has followed it. But nobody seemed to pay attention. Then, scandal and response? Our PM PM goes on State Radio like Putin. In other words, this whole thing also reads like an Ottawa bureaucratic memo war.

It could blow over but it has potential to do something. Liberal Arrogance and so on. Mackay got it right in the House in my opinion. But most Canadians will accept a lot from Liberals before saying enough is enough.

Link to post
Share on other sites

When I look ahead to the upcoming election, I am almost filled with despair. Are these the only choices we have?

Possibly the most corrupt government this country has ever seen on one side, and a leaderless amalgamation that even members of the former parties aren't happy with. Then we've got the separtists. And the NDP, who I wouldn't ever trust to rule this country for fear that a well organized gang of chimpanzees could overwhelm the NDP's idea of a military.

Not that we're not almost there already. Thanks, LPOC.

But seriously, I can't decide whether we're going to, once again, set a new record for lowest voter turnout in political history.... or just maybe ... hopefully, unite in our disgust for the unbelievably gross and possibly criminal mismanagement of taxpayer's money.

If Canada decides that there is in fact no alternative, no better alternative, to the Liberals, we could be in for another 4 years of French extortion, where they take our money in return for their continued presence on our maps.

I can't honestly say that I believe the CPC will win this election. They won't. Even if they get the right leader. Even if the Liberals and all the other parties mess up. The Conservatives cannot win this election. I don't even believe it will be a minority government. There will be a reduction of Liberal seats, there is no doubt of that. But Canada will, once again, choose the devil it knows.

We can argue about where this election will be fought, debate the number of seats, and discuss policy and leadership til the cows come home, but nothing will change the fact that the Liberals will once more reign over this weak and sometimes pathetically conservative nation.

To quote the Arrogant Worms, it seems as though this country has lost it's will to live.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...

What is Tequila Sheila onto with this? Most of the Ontario voters I know have a disdain for Copps. To them, she's the Louise Harel of federal politics. They are happy to see her suffer.

But read this article, about her attempts to appeal her loss, and see this face:

Copps in the Toronto Star

Canadians like an underdog. PM PM's dad always defended the underdog. Half our population is Catholic (while the Americans are at most 20% Catholic). In Canada, the Catholics are conquered French or conquered Irish. They root for the fighter. I think PM PM is making a mistake his dad would never have made.

The Liberal Party indeed is in trouble.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The latest scandal could help the legs on the liberal demise.

National Defense/HP contracts

Possibly $350 Million paid through HP to subcontractors that may not have done anything.

I don't care about their policy or what they are going to do about this mess.

I JUST WANT MY WALLET BACK!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

this is BILLIONS the liberals have made dissapear when you total it. They are dead. No election in the spring of 04, the Liberals will freefall in the polls, and will do horribly in the spring 05 eleciton... how horribly? ever heard of Kim Campbell?

We will see a Conservative Majority government, with an NDP official opposition. Expect the Bloc to end up with north of 60 seats

again, these are prelim numbers (I only heard about this new scandal 5 minutes ago) but ya never know

Link to post
Share on other sites

Front page of the Globe:

DND HP Scandal

This one is truly strange. 160 million goes missing because of "confidentiality"? Who was Minister, Collenette? McCallum? Is this just bureaucratic fraud? One guy?

I can imagine a debate with Martin, Harper and Layton in which all this stuff is just listed out, finger by finger. And the Liberals have the gall to run on "professional competency"?

If this were a corporation, it would be ripe for takeover.

Link to post
Share on other sites
its a trust issue

do you trust $250,000,000 theifs?

do you trust Larry Spencer?

do you trust Svend Robinson?

I think when faced with these choices, that they'll pick the $250,000,000

A massive fraud?

A bigot?

A decent guy in a long-term relationship who happens to be gay?

I'd go with the 3rd, thank you very much.

Link to post
Share on other sites
its a trust issue

do you trust $250,000,000 theifs?

do you trust Larry Spencer?

do you trust Svend Robinson?

I think when faced with these choices, that they'll pick the $250,000,000

A massive fraud?

A bigot?

A decent guy in a long-term relationship who happens to be gay?

I'd go with the 3rd, thank you very much.

Most canadians are not as reasonable as you and I :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
The Prime Minister was evasive when asked whether he offered Ms. Bradshaw something to clear the riding for Mr. McKenna.

"I talk to all MPs about their future," he said at a news conference in London, Ont. "But let me tell you: We're not in the business of suggesting to MPs or pushing MPs. MPs have to make their own decisions.

"I meet with Claudette Bradshaw. I had supper with her, and we've obviously talked. But I will talk to all MPs about their future."

G and M article

Did Martin offer the same in Hamilton? Why not? When Martin says he talks to all MPs about their future, he's playing politics and he knows it. No harm there.

But he's wrong to blame others. By doing so, no one will volunteer to help him in the future. "Look what Martin does to loyal Liberals."

Link to post
Share on other sites

Another one.

CBC Flags BC Braverman

This was raised by the BQ in the House today, and reported on French CBC. The Quebec angle is the flag business. That's touchy. Landry changed the names of every institution in Quebec to "National". So, we no longer have the "Museum of Quebec". We have the "National Museum of Quebec", and so on.

The flag deal is part of this saga.

The Radio-Canada report was different from the link above. The issue was that Martin approved funds, in the budget, for sponsorship activities knowing fully that they were "off-budget". The Radio-Canada report implicitly tied Martin to the scandal through the BQ questions.

Most scandals die through boredom. Maybe this one will too. But I don't think so.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Landry's a wack-job to the point that I was longing for Bouchard, though I probably have more in common ideologically with Landry than I do with Bouchard. Bouchard didn't seem to go out of his to piss me and other non-sovereigntists off the way Landry and Parizeau did.

I can't wait for Suzanne Tremblay to leave the Bloc and go provincial: It's easier for us all if all the sane separatists are in one party and all the wackos are in another.

Link to post
Share on other sites

BDC's Vennat was a foregone conclusion. Here's the Globe article:

G&M BDC Vennat Firing

But what I didn't know was his connection to Mitch Sharp. A smart journalist would go and see Mr. Sharp - 90 something, very ill - and ask him what he thinks about all this Martin stuff. Maybe he'd tell the truth.

Sharp's life was Canada and the Liberal Party. It was a critical decision in Canadian history in 1968 when Sharp dropped out of the Liberal leadership race and supported Trudeau. No question, Sharp made Trudeau PM.

Mr. Vennat and Mr. Chrétien go back to the 1960s and 1970s, when Mr. Vennat worked in the offices of former foreign affairs minister Mitchell Sharp and former prime minister Pierre Trudeau.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Weird.

The article is here:

G&M Lapierre Bloc

I don't think this irony is lost on anyone. And it seems we may well be in for a fall election. This throws the Liberal strategy all out but better that than minority government.

BTW, Lapierre's idea is that the Old Boy's Network will go, and it will be replaced by a new political type of Ontario Liberals/Quebec federalists.

Link to post
Share on other sites

for the record

Lucien Bouchard was a tory cabinet minister

Jean Lapierre was a Liberal MP

Gilles Duceppe was elected as an independent who was pro-seperation

the 3 came togethor and created the Bloc Quebecois. 5 other MP's (all from the tories) joined the Bloc. One more was elected in a by-election.

Of the original 9, only Duceppe remains.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Lucien Bouchard was a tory cabinet minister

The idea that Bouchard would now go back to a federalist party is vaguely amusing. (And BTW, he left the Tories in precise circumstances.)

Lapierre is going back to the Liberals. Why? And why did he leave the Liberals? Even Tobin has more scruples.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Announcements




  • Tell a friend

    Love Political Discussion Forums? Tell a friend!
×
×
  • Create New...