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DogOnPorch

Your Favorite Aircraft

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I've tried the water in a glass trick my self...but I didn't try pouring it.

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Due to the large number of huge forest fires in the area, it feels a little like WW2 with all these heavily ladened water-bombers passing low over the city.

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Short Sandringham "Southern Cross"


Posted before, I'm sure...Martin Mars. Very impressive up close. Got SOAKED by one fighting fires way back.

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Something like that could work on Mars if the solar cells could put out enough juice. But I suppose that's the pickle...

This is in the works, let's hope...lol.

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was that a replica or the real thing? was this flimed in that rinebeck airdrome or whatever it's called?

I imagine it's a replica...yes indeed re: Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome in New York state.

Edited by DogOnPorch

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I imagine it's a relica...yes indeed re: Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome in New York state.

those original pilots were either extremely brave or extremely stupid...

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those original pilots were either extremely brave or extremely stupid...

Brave...especially during WW1 with the no parachute rule for pilots/crew...it might impair their 'nerve' was the British reason. Can't have pilots abandoning government property...crashing or not. Balloon observers were given parachutes, mind you...

:lol:

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Brave...especially during WW1 with the no parachute rule for pilots/crew...it might impair their 'nerve' was the British reason. Can't have pilots abandoning government property...crashing or not. Balloon observers were given parachutes, mind you...

:lol:

I would think somewhat stupid as well... like young men everywhere many think they're indestructible, the Jackass movies confirm that...I can recall some stupid stunts when I was young as well...was I brave? maybe, stupid? absolutely...

somewhere on the web there are pictures of body imprints of WW1 German balloonists/zeppelin in the wet ground, they choose to jump to their deaths rather than burn...

Edited by wyly

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Something like that could work on Mars if the solar cells could put out enough juice. But I suppose that's the pickle...

This is in the works, let's hope...lol.

Yeah, besides the solar cells putting out less power due to the greater distance from the Sun, the other big problem is that the atmosphere is much less dense, so you would need an absolutely humongous wing (or be going really really fast) to generate significant lift. Mars' atmosphere is 1% the density of Earth, and gravity is 0.38 of Earth gravity. A solar powered plane that could fly on Earth would need a wing that is 38 times larger (without adding any mass) to fly on Mars, or alternately would need to be flying 6 times faster. Needing to fly faster takes a lot more power (power required to fly at a certain speed rises with velocity cubed while lift only increases with velocity squared), compounding the problem of reduced power available due to less sunlight, and also makes landing and takeoff much more difficult.

Most of the solar powered aircraft proposals I have seen for Mars have made quite unrealistic engineering assumptions to attempt to address these issues. That's not to say it's impossible, but I don't think it's the way we'll end up going.

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Yeah, besides the solar cells putting out less power due to the greater distance from the Sun, the other big problem is that the atmosphere is much less dense, so you would need an absolutely humongous wing (or be going really really fast) to generate significant lift. Mars' atmosphere is 1% the density of Earth, and gravity is 0.38 of Earth gravity. A solar powered plane that could fly on Earth would need a wing that is 38 times larger (without adding any mass) to fly on Mars, or alternately would need to be flying 6 times faster. Needing to fly faster takes a lot more power (power required to fly at a certain speed rises with velocity cubed while lift only increases with velocity squared), compounding the problem of reduced power available due to less sunlight, and also makes landing and takeoff much more difficult.

Most of the solar powered aircraft proposals I have seen for Mars have made quite unrealistic engineering assumptions to attempt to address these issues. That's not to say it's impossible, but I don't think it's the way we'll end up going.

Huge winds on Mars during certain seasons as well.

The Ares looks like a possibility. But who knows when or if will go up. Heard anything about it? Must use hydrazine/nitrogen tetroxide or similar hypergolic fuels.

Edited by DogOnPorch

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I would think somewhat stupid as well... like young men everywhere many think they're indestructible, the Jackass movies confirm that...I can recall some stupid stunts when I was young as well...was I brave? maybe, stupid? absolutely...

somewhere on the web there are pictures of body imprints of WW1 German balloonists/zeppelin in the wet ground, they choose to jump to their deaths rather than burn...

Yes I recall the photo as well. A zeppelin captain if I recall.

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Huge winds on Mars during certain seasons as well.

The Ares looks like a posibility. But who knows when or if will go up. Heard anything about it? Must use hydrazine/nitrogen tetroxide or similar hypergolic fuels.

Reading about it some more, it talks about using a rocket engine, not solar powered propellers. With a rocket, you can of course fly through Mars' atmosphere, as rockets have no shortage of power density and can easily propel this thing at high speeds and generate the necessary lift. Of course, once you burn through the fuel you're done. The advantage of a solar powered plane, if it could be done, is that it could essentially fly forever (at least until the mechanical systems start to break down).

Of course my opinion is that the best flying vehicle propulsion system for a place like Mars would be a nuclear powered ramjet. For example, similar to the one that was worked on in project Pluto. The advantage of a nuclear powered aircraft is that it can fly for months or even years on a modest amount of nuclear fuel.

Edited by Bonam

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Reading about it some more, it talks about using a rocket engine, not solar powered propellers. With a rocket, you can of course fly through Mars' atmosphere, as rockets have no shortage of power density and can easily propel this thing at high speeds and generate the necessary lift. Of course, once you burn through the fuel you're done. The advantage of a solar powered plane, if it could be done, is that it could essentially fly forever (at least until the mechanical systems start to break down).

Yes...that's what caught my eye. I figured the wings would have to be massive but perhaps it is possible to produce better solar cells in the future that could grab some more Martian 'rays'. I suppose an electric engine + big propellor with a (smaller the better) nuclear power source, might run a craft for a long time, as well.

Of course my opinion is that the best flying vehicle propulsion system for a place like Mars would be a nuclear powered ramjet. For example, similar to the one that was worked on in project Pluto. The advantage of a nuclear powered aircraft is that it can fly for months or even years on a modest amount of nuclear fuel.

That's pretty darn cool, alright. Much like NERVA it looks like it was almost ready for some flight tests.

Edited by DogOnPorch

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That's pretty darn cool, alright. Much like NERVA it looks like it was almost ready for some flight tests.

Yep, and then there was the more recent attempt at nuclear space propulsion: Project Prometheus. Unfortunately that pretty much got scrapped too.

NASA needs to get off its ass and do something besides test firing a rocket that is getting axed anyway soon as the next budget gets approved in congress.

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Yep, and then there was the more recent attempt at nuclear space propulsion: Project Prometheus. Unfortunately that pretty much got scrapped too.

NASA needs to get off its ass and do something besides test firing a rocket that is getting axed anyway soon as the next budget gets approved in congress.

Yes I was quite disappointed about Project Ares I-X/Orion's cancellation. It was huge...powerful...and very simple. They could have had a row of those things waiting lift-off to the Moon at the same time. But since the beastie didn't look like the Millenium Falcon, it had few friends outside of NASA/JPL (and ilk) it seems.

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