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Dion should support income-splitting


Pat Coghlan

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What a thread. I feel thoroughly misunderstood.

msj, I think everyone should pay taxes the way you, as a self-employed person, do. Would this mean more government bureaucrats? Maybe. But it would also make it far more difficult for politicians and bureaucrats to get our money.

Withholding taxes make it too easy for people to have access to other people's money. msj, you have to think of life and the world differently.

That's just it, I do think of the world differently.

This means thinking from the governments' POV too.

Why would the government want to reduce its primarily monthly source deduction receipts?

They get businesses to collect the taxes and send it to them every month (although large employers do it more often and smaller employers do it less often).

It also has the added benefit of reducing collection costs while also allowing the government to collect money and use that money during the year until it pays out a tax refund upon the filing of tax returns.

The government is not run by idiots. It just looks that way.

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In your mind, a "significant" number of them is "financially incompetent". If that were true Riverwind, how do you explain all the advanced benefits North Americans enjoy?
I don't see financial competence as a precondition for material success. There are families making 6 figures are living pay check to pay check and there others earning 40K managing to save a little for retirement. The recent period of economic growth was driven by consumer spending which, in many cases, means people spending more than they should. The sub-prime loan problems would not exist if you did not have people willing to take on mortgages that they could not afford. In short, I don't think you can't argue that the material success in North America is a result of wide spread financial competence amoung the citizens. Edited by Riverwind
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Huh?

This is what I hate about Leftists in general - they think ordinary people are stupid, disorganized and need the help of the State. Riverwind, most ordinary people pay their bills on time. North America would not be the rich, civilized place it is if ordinary people were not like this. Only the State takes money from us without sending us an invoice or bill.

The question of just who thinks "ordinary" people are stupid is implied in your preference to have people pay tax directly rather than through payroll withholdings.

I think it is you who think ordinary people are stupid since the premise of having people pay tax directly rather than through withholding is because you assume that people are too stupid to keep track of how much they pay in tax since they only see their net cheque and don't bother to do the math back to the gross wages.

Indeed, you also think ordinary people are disorganized in that you think that they need to have the government send them an invoice in order to pay their taxes on time.

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What a thread. I feel thoroughly misunderstood.

Pat, you have entirely, utterly missed the point of the maid example and the child support aspect.

I consider myself a patient person but in your case, I don't have the patience to explain properly. I'll try sexist quick. First) Maids pay income tax. (House)wives don't. Both offer the same service/effort to humanity. Second) To assess child support/alimony, only one person's income is examined - not the family. You want to change the basis of income tax assessment. Why not the basis of child support/alimony too?

Coghlan, if you want to wander into the minefield of tax policy, at least bring a sharp critical sense with you.

Am I so unclear? Gee whiz.

You're unclear because the example is utterly ridiculous. Should the spouse who works outside the home be taxed when she gets home and cleans *her* house? After all, that's untaxed labour as well, isn't it? Or, do you just want to go after the at-home spouse because she's (usually it's a she) chosen the *job* of being an at-home spouse. The at-home spouse doesn't do anything most people/have to do to maintain their homes. Some choose to employ someone to do it, and someone *else* will only do it if they're paid.

If you can show me a government in the entire world that levies a tax on someone doing their own laundry or looking after their own kids, maybe we can start to have a debate.

Can I assume that you're not married (and perhaps vote NDP)? I can't think of any other explanation for the view that someone would equate doing household domestic work with paid maid service.

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I don't think society places the same value on sports cars and children. Do you?

It should not be society that places value on either sports cars nor children. That should be left to individuals to value. Some will value a car more than children, other will value the reverse. Government should not incent the choice in either direction through taxation policy.

The government can't talk out of both sides of its mouth on this issue. Either we want to encourage larger families (to sustain our economy, create some mild inflation etc.) or we don't. If we don't, then scrap subsidies for things like daycare etc. At least people will know the government's position and can oblige them.

Finally we agree. Government has no business in the bedrooms of people. It should leave choices like whether to have kids up to the parents and not incent them either direcly nor indirectly.

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Hey, I just checked their website and you're right!

I'll do some more checking, but if I like what I see I will give them my vote, just because of their view on tax reform.

Thought you might be interested. It might not not amount to much this election given no one is expecting Greens to form government but if the idea catches on, expect other parties to adopt it as policy.

I still have my doubts it will. As I've said, my personal preference is to reduce income taxes in general for business and individual.

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I surely do wish that this election was about taxes. God knows we all pay too much tax.

I certainly wish that the Liberals had taken a much more aggressive stance on tax cuts. I have no problem with the carbon tax. I don't think it should have been revenue neutral. I believe the tax cuts should have been 2 to 1 and accompanied by spending cuts. I think it would have been hard to combat the idea of paying much less tax. The Tories would have had to go on the defence and say it would result in deficit. That is a losing argument, not a winning one.

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I certainly wish that the Liberals had taken a much more aggressive stance on tax cuts. I have no problem with the carbon tax. I don't think it should have been revenue neutral. I believe the tax cuts should have been 2 to 1 and accompanied by spending cuts. I think it would have been hard to combat the idea of paying much less tax. The Tories would have had to go on the defence and say it would result in deficit. That is a losing argument, not a winning one.

The only thing the Liberals are more aggressive on is getting elected at any cost: http://www.thestar.com/FederalElection/article/498945

Families are living on home equity and debt to survive. I think that needs to take centre stage in the election. As we are speaking, yet another money centre bank (Lehman Bros.) is on the ropes and poised to fail. Things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.

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The only thing the Liberals are more aggressive on is getting elected at any cost: http://www.thestar.com/FederalElection/article/498945

Families are living on home equity and debt to survive. I think that needs to take centre stage in the election. As we are speaking, yet another money centre bank (Lehman Bros.) is on the ropes and poised to fail. Things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.

Immigration does have a backlog and it has been getting bigger under the Tories. Times to clear it out.

You don't think the Tories are saying anything to get elected such as the timeline in Afghanistan?

As far as Lehman goes, it has to do with American market forces in sub-prime. Canada didn't have a sub-prime market.

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As far as Lehman goes, it has to do with American market forces in sub-prime. Canada didn't have a sub-prime market.

There was not as *much* exposure to sub-prime property, but the Canadian banks are exposed to some degree...to the extent that they invested in the bonds of those failed banks or purchased CDOs (collateralized debt obligations), which are backed by mortgages on the US sub-prime properties.

Anyway, the Liberals are a complete write off, but I do like what I read re: the Green Party plan to support income splitting (actually, just a joint tax return would do fine...complete splitting isn't required to make things fair).

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There was not as *much* exposure to sub-prime property, but the Canadian banks are exposed to some degree...to the extent that they invested in the bonds of those failed banks or purchased CDOs (collateralized debt obligations), which are backed by mortgages on the US sub-prime properties.

The most recent data shows Canadian financial institution are in no danger of collapsing.

Anyway, the Liberals are a complete write off, but I do like what I read re: the Green Party plan to support income splitting (actually, just a joint tax return would do fine...complete splitting isn't required to make things fair).

Figured you would like their plan.

The Liberals are done as a party pretty much after this election. I doubt very much they will survive in a meaningful way.

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The most recent data shows Canadian financial institution are in no danger of collapsing.

Figured you would like their plan.

The Liberals are done as a party pretty much after this election. I doubt very much they will survive in a meaningful way.

Well, promising meaningful tax reform along the lines of a joint return or income splitting might have provided a lifeline, but I'm happy to watch them go down.

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Well, promising meaningful tax reform along the lines of a joint return or income splitting might have provided a lifeline, but I'm happy to watch them go down.

That wouldn't help them at all. At this point, the Liberal party is finished in national politics.

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