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theloniusfleabag

Liberals looking for new leader

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http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/National/2008/10/20/7146386.html

I actually like Bob Rae, though he is pretty far left. The only other 'centre-lefty' I would suggest as leader for the liberals would be me.

I don't think Mr. Rae will lead the Liberals to Victory.

IMO the best person to lead the Liberal party would be John Manly.

I would even consider voting Liberal if he were leading it and able to turn it around.

I like Manly a lot and believe he is a man of integrity , common sense, well spoken, a prudent and skilled orator.

If the Liberals are smart they'll steer clear of Mr. Rae.

I've been wrong before...once.

Edited by Mr.Canada

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I don't think Mr. Rae will lead the Liberals to Victory.

IMO the best person to lead the Liberal party would be John Manly.

I would even consider voting Liberal if he were leading it and able to turn it around.

I like Manly a lot and believe he is a man of integrity , common sense, well spoken, a prudent and skilled orator.

If the Liberals are smart they'll steer clear of Mr. Rae.

I've been wrong before...once.

Mr Rae has been a Priemier, a professor of Law, and is a very well spoken person, what about him do you think would be bad in a leader?

Although I really think the liberals should have more than one leader - and go for a co prime ministership. or council of prime ministers. and leave it to the govenor general and the queen, or cheif of defence staff to solve any military issues,... when was the last time a PM has had military training or grade?

the last one was PET

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canad...ilitary_service

Edited by William Ashley

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The only problem with Bob Rae is that it gives the conservatives a lot of ammunition to use against the Liberal party. A former NDP premier now the leader of the Liberal party? Then again the Liberal's always claim NDP-like policies during elections then convert to a more conservative governing style. So overall it seems to be a toss up. Still I think it's best to go with a safer choice than Bob Rae.

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Mr Rae has been a Priemier, a professor of Law, and is a very well spoken person, what about him do you think would be bad in a leader?

he is very smart and well spoken, but these are the reasons I don't think he'd make a good or widely electable party leader

a)he'd keep the party where it is or move it left, which I believe is the wrong direction for the party. It needs to go closer to centre, as evidenced by the bleed off of centrist voters to the Conservatives.

b)his past as premier would be one nail in the Liberal's coffin in Ontario. All Harper has to do is mention "Rae Days" and there go a lot of support

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Mr Rae has been a Priemier, a professor of Law, and is a very well spoken person, what about him do you think would be bad in a leader?

Although I really think the liberals should have more than one leader - and go for a co prime ministership. or council of prime ministers. and leave it to the govenor general and the queen, or cheif of defence staff to solve any military issues,... when was the last time a PM has had military training or grade?

the last one was PET

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canad...ilitary_service

Perhaps you haven't been in Canada or Ontario long enough to know the history of Bob Rae.

Read about him and his history and you'll see what's wrong with the man, he's tainted.

If they're smart they'll patch things up with John Manley, elect him leader and move the party back to the centre before Mr. Harper scoops up all those centrist votes.

Edited by Mr.Canada

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he is very smart and well spoken, but these are the reasons I don't think he'd make a good or widely electable party leader

a)he'd keep the party where it is or move it left, which I believe is the wrong direction for the party. It needs to go closer to centre, as evidenced by the bleed off of centrist voters to the Conservatives.

b)his past as premier would be one nail in the Liberal's coffin in Ontario. All Harper has to do is mention "Rae Days" and there go a lot of support

Why do so many believe he is left? Was Harper not a Liberal supporter at one point? Does that make him a lefty?

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Why do so many believe he is left? Was Harper not a Liberal supporter at one point? Does that make him a lefty?

Nice try.

Stephan Harper was a member of the Junior Liberals in High school and joined a conservative movement shortly after.

Mr. Rae has been in the labour movement for over 20 years, a long standing member of the NDP(22 years), a MP, then its provincial leader, then premier of Ontario. Slightly different.

Edited by Mr.Canada

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Why do so many believe he is left? Was Harper not a Liberal supporter at one point? Does that make him a lefty?

I'm going off what I remember reading in the past. if you've got any links to help me become more update I'd love to read them.

but I still think his rightfully or wrongfully earned bagged from his days as premier will cause a lot of problems for the Liberals in Ontario, problems they don't need right now

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I don't think Mr. Rae will lead the Liberals to Victory.

IMO the best person to lead the Liberal party would be John Manly.

I would even consider voting Liberal if he were leading it and able to turn it around.

I like Manly a lot and believe he is a man of integrity , common sense, well spoken, a prudent and skilled orator.

If the Liberals are smart they'll steer clear of Mr. Rae.

I've been wrong before...once.

Even _I_ could consider the Liberals with Manley as leader - depending on what their policies and priorities were. There'd have to be a commitment to address longstanding issues the feds have been ignoring, though, like health care and immigration.

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Like the last leadership election, I am sitting on the sidelines at the moment. Last time there were some people running that I really didn't know as Liberals.

Now I know more of Ignatieff and Rae but still don't know much about Kennedy because he has been out of sight waiting to run. I like Hall-Findlay but she has not been too prominent since being elected. We'll see if that changes. Some of the past candidates like Dryden won't be running.

I am on the sidelines until we see some more potential people come out. My wife leans to Ignatieff at the moment. She think he speaks with the clearest voice and is the best prepared. I am more circumspect and wait to see what policy ideas are going to be promoted.

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Like the last leadership election, I am sitting on the sidelines at the moment. Last time there were some people running that I really didn't know as Liberals.

Now I know more of Ignatieff and Rae but still don't know much about Kennedy because he has been out of sight waiting to run. I like Hall-Findlay but she has not been too prominent since being elected. We'll see if that changes. Some of the past candidates like Dryden won't be running.

I am on the sidelines until we see some more potential people come out. My wife leans to Ignatieff at the moment. She think he speaks with the clearest voice and is the best prepared. I am more circumspect and wait to see what policy ideas are going to be promoted.

You should run.

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You should run.

I have run as a candidate.

Things that rule me out as a national leader before all other considerations:

Not fully bilingual in Official languages.

Edited by jdobbin

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I have run as a candidate.

Things that rule me out as a national leader before all other considerations:

Not fully bilingual in Official languages.

that didn't stop Dion LOL

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I don't think Mr. Rae will lead the Liberals to Victory.

IMO the best person to lead the Liberal party would be John Manly.

I would even consider voting Liberal if he were leading it and able to turn it around.

I like Manly a lot and believe he is a man of integrity , common sense, well spoken, a prudent and skilled orator.

I think Manley is a phoney poop. And why does he always looks like he's seen a ghost :lol:

Bob Rae ahahahAHAHAHAHAAhahaha!! Ontario won't vote for him.

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Nice try.

Stephan Harper was a member of the Junior Liberals in High school and joined a conservative movement shortly after.

Mr. Rae has been in the labour movement for over 20 years, a long standing member of the NDP(22 years), a MP, then its provincial leader, then premier of Ontario. Slightly different.

If I'm not mistaken Harper was still a Lib when he moved to Alberta because the reason he quit the Libs was that Trudeau's Energy Program would hurt the oil companies which he was working for Imperial oil in the mail room. When Mulroney got to the PMO and didn't get rid of the program he quit the PC's too. So when the NDP says Harper's oil friends Harper is their protector.

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If I'm not mistaken Harper was still a Lib when he moved to Alberta because the reason he quit the Libs was that Trudeau's Energy Program would hurt the oil companies which he was working for Imperial oil in the mail room. When Mulroney got to the PMO and didn't get rid of the program he quit the PC's too. So when the NDP says Harper's oil friends Harper is their protector.

Your point is what?

Without all that oil money, Ontario would have nothing for their pet programs. Billions of oil dollars flow to Ontario and nothing flows back.

People claim to hate big oil but that is a lot of jobs that you'd like to pull the plug on. Outrageous. Without the oil sands the economy would be much worse off, obviously. I look forward to reading your paper on renewable resources Topaz. Let me know when you've completed it. The NDP just hates it cause it's not union labour.

That is off topic and not in the scope of this discussion anyways.

So again what is your point?

In case you cannot read the topic header. it says "Liberals looking for new leader, Dion announces resignation"

Edited by Mr.Canada

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Your point is what?

Without all that oil money, Ontario would have nothing for their pet programs. Billions of oil dollars flow to Ontario and nothing flows back.

o really? cause last I checked we pay more ot the feds then we get back

People claim to hate big oil but that is a lot of jobs that you'd like to pull the plug on. Outrageous. Without the oil sands the economy would be much worse off, obviously.

so before oil hit ~$40/barrel, which is about where extracting oil from the oil sands becomes economically worthwhile for companies, our economy was much worse off?

I contend the opposite, at least for the provinces that export to the US. The oilsands helped keep the the value of the dollar where it was, which hurt exporting provinces when the value of the USD fell so dramatically last year.

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he is very smart and well spoken, but these are the reasons I don't think he'd make a good or widely electable party leader

a)he'd keep the party where it is or move it left, which I believe is the wrong direction for the party. It needs to go closer to centre, as evidenced by the bleed off of centrist voters to the Conservatives.

b)his past as premier would be one nail in the Liberal's coffin in Ontario. All Harper has to do is mention "Rae Days" and there go a lot of support

The only issue I see in this is the following:

If the liberals go to the center.. the people on the right may vote for the right - conservatives.. the people on the left may vote for the NDP-- what does it leave the liberals with? If they are closer to the left than the conservatives are to the right, they still may capture actual centrists.. The only problem is they need to have a better media figure than Jack Layton who is frankly widely popular imo as a good standing politician. If they could get Mr Layton to join the liberal party then I think their problems with the split NDP vote may be reduced a bit. _ then all that is left is getting the greens to stop working for the conservatives and offer a compramise by including their policies that would mesh in the liberal platform, like the green shift or something like that.

For example you say the conservative companies will still be taxed, we'll give money to parents, take your children off your hands, save the planet etc.. maybe some people will be like WOW it is like 3 parties in 1... and the only thing that will prevent that notion is the existance of two other parties.

Edited by William Ashley

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Your point is what?

Without all that oil money, Ontario would have nothing for their pet programs. Billions of oil dollars flow to Ontario and nothing flows back.

People claim to hate big oil but that is a lot of jobs that you'd like to pull the plug on. Outrageous. Without the oil sands the economy would be much worse off, obviously. I look forward to reading your paper on renewable resources Topaz. Let me know when you've completed it. The NDP just hates it cause it's not union labour.

That is off topic and not in the scope of this discussion anyways.

So again what is your point?

In case you cannot read the topic header. it says "Liberals looking for new leader, Dion announces resignation"

Yah cause ontario doesn't export stuff.. get real a lot of companies are still housed in Ontario - it is just that they have a slight downturn and large foreign companies are really inching in on a lot of smaller businesses... "with their foreign efficiency, and high quality management"ontario still has a lot of companies but likely you people out west don't bother to buy canadian.. so you don't support your fellow canadians.. also your oil does more than help it jacks up the health care cost, provides us with smog warnings, gives us cancer and all sorts of other evils. PS our whole food supply is threatened by petrochemicals, our water supplies unsuitable for drinking due to toxins and bacteria, and the environment and wild life threatened not even to mention the bee population... you think money is the #1 issue in the world.. it isn't. But that is the only conservative issue, that and forcing people to be slaves - or atleast wage slaves with no chance to enjoy life outside of a banal moderate existence..

Edited by William Ashley

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Your point is what?

Without all that oil money, Ontario would have nothing for their pet programs. Billions of oil dollars flow to Ontario and nothing flows back.

If that were true, you might have a point. It might be true in a while, but not right now.

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