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bush_cheney2004

Got Chinooks?

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Look...up in the sky....it's a bird...it's a plane...no...it's those long awaited CH-47F medium lift rotary wing aircraft. Hats off to PM Harper....he just got 'er done.

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan -- Canadian pilots are finally flying long-awaited transport helicopters over the Afghan battlefield.

The Canadian Air Force is confirming that the first of six Chinook helicopters to be purchased from the United States are now at the Kandahar Airfield base.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...1030?hub=Canada

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t's those long awaited CH-47F medium lift rotary wing aircraft

Read again.

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Read again.

You spent $292 million for used helicopters? I remember the Boeing deal to be for 47F, not D's.

What is it about helicopters that vexes Canada so?

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Read what again? The Chinooks are finally arriving, that's great news.

Thanks for the news Bush.

Uh..OK..but don't thank me...thank Boeing Rotorcraft Systems.

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These are the used ones from the US Air Force, CH - 47D, not the new ones from Boeing. Those don't arrive till 2011.

Edited by Smallc

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Finally we get some new choppers, this is great news for sure. The quicker the better. Our PM, the RH Stephan Harper really looks after Canadians, this really shows that he cares. Thank God for our PM who is always doing the right thing.

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Look...up in the sky....it's a bird...it's a plane...no...it's those long awaited CH-47F medium lift rotary wing aircraft. Hats off to PM Harper....he just got 'er done.

Does it really piss you off so much? That the woefully under supplied and suported CAF still outperforms your so vaunted united States Millitary? Sure you have a shit load of people and equipment, big deal. Your individual servicepeople are undisciplined and unreliable. Please don't try to argue otherwise, I've served with these "John Wayne" yahoo's, they weren't exactly what I'd call a well disciplined fighting force.

The simple fact is that the CAF punches way above its belt line in terms of equipment and man power, you want to try and deny that? Go ahead, bring up some of your selective "facts" to support your assertation, implied or otherwise.

If you can't then just STFU, or at least try to show a little respect as opposed to animosity.

If you can't manage that then I suggest you get a few sheets of nice soft Charmine and wipe your old attitude away.

Thanks, have a good day.

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Does it really piss you off so much? That the woefully under supplied and suported CAF still outperforms your so vaunted united States Millitary? Sure you have a shit load of people and equipment, big deal. Your individual servicepeople are undisciplined and unreliable. Please don't try to argue otherwise, I've served with these "John Wayne" yahoo's, they weren't exactly what I'd call a well disciplined fighting force.

Yes...we all know that Canada is #1 in the world...except for that Somalia thing, where the Airborne Regiment demonstrated such discipline and reliability. Fortunately, this does not represent all Canadian Forces.

The simple fact is that the CAF punches way above its belt line in terms of equipment and man power, you want to try and deny that? Go ahead, bring up some of your selective "facts" to support your assertation, implied or otherwise.

Since you went looking for a fight, you shall have one: there is no such thing as an "assertation". Take that!

If you can't then just STFU, or at least try to show a little respect as opposed to animosity.

You mean I can't tell wankers like you to "piss off"? That the kind of respect you looking for? The CAF doesn't punch above anything without support from your favorite punching bag.

If you can't manage that then I suggest you get a few sheets of nice soft Charmine and wipe your old attitude away.

It's "Charmin", Bozo. But thank you for the offer anyway. Now get your ass back in ranks.....and don't forget to salute me if we ever meet.

Thanks, have a good day.

I always do...now please stop the flashbacks and enjoy your Yankee provided kit.

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The CAF doesn't punch above anything without support from your favorite punching bag.

You must be confusing me with someone else. If you look at my posts you'll see that America is not my favourite punching bag, I reserve that honour for the french. However if I didn't know better and based my opinions on your quite often irrelevant comments it could be quite easy to view Americans as arrogant silly people with an undeveloped childish wit.

As for misspelling Charmin, what can I say? Perhaps I just don't share you slavish devotion to registered trade marks.

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I would rather see our armed forces with the V-22. A few squadrons of these along with sufficient carriers to transport them would make a great deal of sense to me. Such a force could represent an out of country contribution to peace keeping by Canadian Forces. A single aircraft carrier to operate a squadron of F-18's would be even more helpful. What I am saying is that I would think it beneficial to the best interests of Canadians to have a least one single group that is capable of deploying and being supplied by our own means.

Yes we need heavy sea lift and air lift capabilities, but we also need a force deployment plan to go along with our political objectives. This is not something to be done lightly, nor will it be inexpensive to do so. Yet it must be done.

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What I am saying is that I would think it beneficial to the best interests of Canadians to have a least one single group that is capable of deploying and being supplied by our own means.

Yes we need heavy sea lift and air lift capabilities, but we also need a force deployment plan to go along with our political objectives. This is not something to be done lightly, nor will it be inexpensive to do so. Yet it must be done.

Absolutely. Just in case we do have to take on Uncle Sam any time in the near future.

Again

Edited by Sir Bandelot

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You must be confusing me with someone else. If you look at my posts you'll see that America is not my favourite punching bag, I reserve that honour for the french.

Yep...you are the type that punches at everything. Maybe it's just frustration over the Chinook fiasco in specific, or procurement in general.....and the French already had airlift, no?

However if I didn't know better and based my opinions on your quite often irrelevant comments it could be quite easy to view Americans as arrogant silly people with an undeveloped childish wit.

Yes, Americans are arrogant silly people that you buy aircraft from because your procurements otherwise resemble a monkey having sex with a football.

As for misspelling Charmin, what can I say? Perhaps I just don't share you slavish devotion to registered trade marks.

That's OK...misspelling worshipped American pop culture icons is so cute.

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Let's not be too tough on our American guest, imagine his burden dragging around a handle like Bush Cheney in the context of a world economy shattered by Washington Republicans, a calling card tantamount to screaming 'I am a political leper' as he skulks from forum to forum.

Sarah Palin would seem an appropriate makeover for him.

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Let's not be too tough on our American guest, imagine his burden...

Probably the discomfort of seeing Obama as President, Franken as Senator, Madia and Tinklenberg as Reps.

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Probably the discomfort of seeing Obama as President, Franken as Senator, Madia and Tinklenberg as Reps.

You would certainly know such "discomfort" after being turfed not once, but twice.

They said Harper = Bush.....and Harper won.

Bonus: Chinooks actually delivered as promised....Bush to Bush....LOL! :lol:

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I would rather see our armed forces with the V-22. A few squadrons of these along with sufficient carriers to transport them would make a great deal of sense to me. Such a force could represent an out of country contribution to peace keeping by Canadian Forces.

That's fine, and is a concept embraced by other nations as well. But you still need logistics workhorse, multi-role airframes like these Chinooks.

A single aircraft carrier to operate a squadron of F-18's would be even more helpful. What I am saying is that I would think it beneficial to the best interests of Canadians to have a least one single group that is capable of deploying and being supplied by our own means.

Yes, this is important for poltical reasons as well, otherwise Canada will always be dependent on those damn Americans!

Yes we need heavy sea lift and air lift capabilities, but we also need a force deployment plan to go along with our political objectives. This is not something to be done lightly, nor will it be inexpensive to do so. Yet it must be done.

PM Harper understands this....independent capability supports independent actions.....and a seat at the grown-ups table.

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The V-22 is still in the beta phase....they have had quite a few problems and I don't know how well used they are now if at all in any combat theatre. The concept is good..Canada had been working on a Vtol aircraft in th 70s but the problems required too much money to figure out.

That being said, BC is correct. You still need heavy lift or otherwise we would have went simply for Blackhawks.

I remember being at Val Cartier in the mid 70s (when we had chinooks) watching one chinnok flying and carrying another chinook....I said to my mate beside me....LOOK! that's how baby Kiowas are made....

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The V-22 is still in the beta phase....they have had quite a few problems and I don't know how well used they are now if at all in any combat theatre. The concept is good..Canada had been working on a Vtol aircraft in th 70s but the problems required too much money to figure out.

True...you are hinting at what we have long suspected....nice idea.....but hard to realize a sustained benefit compared to the cost of alternatives. A combat LZ has the dimensions of space and time.

I remember being at Val Cartier in the mid 70s (when we had chinooks) watching one chinnok flying and carrying another chinook....I said to my mate beside me....LOOK! that's how baby Kiowas are made....

LOL! I have a fondness for the ungainly, non-Sikorsky type 46's/47's, because they are so damn versatile.

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There is nothing wrong with having some new weaponry and civilian rescue and survailance craft. There is something morally wrong in building up military supplies and generating strife (artifical wars) in order to justify further defence spending to enrich a bunch of guys with American buisness contracts. Killing for profit is a no no - and it seems that - for instance the war in Iraq is just rich guys killing poor guys for adventure and profit - this is barbaric behaviour - and for the most part is responsible for the economic crisis in America - not some silly sub-prime mortgage thing. When you balance the budget though warfare only a tiny amount of people benefit, while the average suffer.. I hope that Canada does slowly develope a strong military - and the we set an example in the world - that weapons are to keep peace..if you are to be having them at all.

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When you balance the budget though warfare only a tiny amount of people benefit, while the average suffer.. I hope that Canada does slowly develope a strong military - and the we set an example in the world - that weapons are to keep peace....

Gee dad, does that mean back to peacekilling in Iltis jeeps?

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You spent $292 million for used helicopters? I remember the Boeing deal to be for 47F, not D's.

What is it about helicopters that vexes Canada so?

These are sort of like short-term fill-ins until the newer ones arrive. I think the $292 is for the new AND the used ones.

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These are sort of like short-term fill-ins until the newer ones arrive. I think the $292 is for the new AND the used ones.

OK...so are the D's a FMS transfer or just a lease/loan until the F's are delivered? If the Canadians are training in the USA, is it on the old ACMS cockpit or CAAS? Where is our resident helo expert?

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The long delay from decision to buy to contract signature is due to a combination of vacillation and an overly ambitious operational concept for the aircraft on the part of key procurement staff in the Department of National Defence (DND) and the Canadian Forces. Instead of accepting accelerated delivery of the advanced CH-47F now in production for the US Army as was done with the C-17, Canada is pushing for a unique version of the Chinook with the ability to satisfy a ballooning list of requirements, including SOF support and SAR in the Arctic. The result is a one-off 'Canadian' hybrid of the CH-47F and the MH-47G in production for US Army Special Operations aviation, with the latter providing increased range, an enhanced defensive aids suite and additional sensors. The result is likely to be much heavier, more expensive and will take longer to build, test and bring into service than standard CH-47F's, and will be much more difficult and expensive to maintain, particularly given their unique pedigree. Canada also apparently declined US offers of leased CH-47D's as an interim measure, which would have permitted the air force to provide tactical helicopter support Canadian troops in Afghanistan from 2007 rather than relying on the overworked US Army.

janes.

I'm not a helo expert, but this is a purchase unrelated to the chaps program, it was listed for 395 mil and it is just for these 6 A/C although it was mentioned somewhere that these helos will be withdrawan one by one as the new 47F's arrive and they will be upgraded to f plus specs. I'm not sure if it mentions what cockpit they are.

CSAR

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