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Radsickle

Canuck selling out Canada's Health Care on Fox News

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This twit makes it seem like the doctors in Canada were so cold that they told her 6 months wait time even though they knew she would die. This isn't the case at all. Shona might've had one doctor tell her she might die in 6 months and reacted so angrily that she's become a vengeful spokesperson for the capitalists who like to make money off of sick people. Although she'd never admit it, she's selling out Canada's Health Care to appease her "many American friends."

Now she's suing her country for the $100,000 she paid to jump in front of the lineup by going to the States.

New Democrat health critic Judy Wasylycia-Leis says she formally asked Ottawa to speak out against anti-Canadian propaganda that misrepresents how medicare works, but hasn't had a response.

Wasylycia-Leis says she's not after people like Shona Holmes, but the big business and lobby groups that "manipulate facts." Holmes launched a class action against Ontario in 2007 over undue wait times.

It is on hold until a hearing this fall to try to force OHIP to pay the $100,000 she spent on care at the Mayo Clinic in Arizona. She says her story has taken hold quickly in the U.S. She's done five Fox Network interviews, and CNN flew a crew here for an interview. Holmes says health care is in crisis for many Canadians.

Holmes is a pawn, not a star

Edited by Radsickle

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Maybe she's pointing out a real flaw in our system, that people shouldn't have to wait 6 months? Oh and "making money off of sick people" is better than letting sick people die.

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Maybe she's pointing out a real flaw in our system, that people shouldn't have to wait 6 months? Oh and "making money off of sick people" is better than letting sick people die.

Saving almost everybody for free, without them having to mortgage their homes, is better. Regardless of what the selfish think.

Edited by Radsickle

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Saving almost everybody for free, without them having to mortgage their homes, is better. Regardless of what the selfish think.

For free? You think hospitals just spring up out of the ground without anyone working to put them there? You think doctors and nurses are volunteers? You think our MRI machines and other expensive medical equipment are donations? We pay for our healthcare system, just as do people in America. We just pay in a different way.

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For free? You think hospitals just spring up out of the ground without anyone working to put them there? You think doctors and nurses are volunteers? You think our MRI machines and other expensive medical equipment are donations? We pay for our healthcare system, just as do people in America. We just pay in a different way.

Yes. Each one chips in a few loonies. So what? Are you just anti-tax because you have to pay a lot?

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Guest TrueMetis

What a bitch she can't be sure she was gonna die, no one can. Obviously are health care isn't perfect but it's better than american healthcare. What happens doesn't mean the healthcare system or the goverernment failed it means we need a slight change. Also she's doing these on FOX news who the fuck takes fox seriously?

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Maybe she's pointing out a real flaw in our system, that people shouldn't have to wait 6 months? Oh and "making money off of sick people" is better than letting sick people die.

It's not hard to find "Canucks" willing to sell out their health care system, starting with the people sent to the states by provinces.

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For free? You think hospitals just spring up out of the ground without anyone working to put them there? You think doctors and nurses are volunteers? You think our MRI machines and other expensive medical equipment are donations? We pay for our healthcare system, just as do people in America. We just pay in a different way.

Some are, for sure.

I think you understood the "fror free" comment, but just in case... yes, we pay for our health care through our taxes. This means when we go to the doctor or the hospital of the lab for tests, there usually aren't any fees, so in essence, we're going for free. We don't have to sink ourselves into debt or declare bankruptcy if we're sick or injured.

Even the poor get decent health care.

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Our system isn't perfect for sure but when it comes to life expectancy rankings by country. Canada #14 US #45.

Life expectancy is not soley related to health care systems.

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Guest TrueMetis

right now we rank 30th for overall health care the U.S. ranks 37th and France is 1st Canada spends about 9.8 of its GDP* on healthcare France spend 11.2* which means we have to change how are system works but we don't actually have to put that much money into it. All we have to do to become more like france is to add a private sector to our healthcare for people willing to pay.

*The % of GDP as of 2005

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This woman is not doing anything differently from what the Ontario government already does. For exampls:

OHIP will now only cover Hunt’s cancer treatment in Buffalo, NY, where the Roswell Park Cancer Institute is the ministry’s only “preferred provider” of IL-2 treatment for metastatic malignant melanoma and renal cell carcinoma. The Ministry of Health has a number of funding agreements with out-of-country health care facilities, which are chosen based on specific criteria.
Windsor Star

I like the journalist's phrase "... which are chosen based on specific criteria."

What are OHIP's "special criteria" for determining when it will cover treatment in the US?

-----

If the US didn't exist, Canada's health system would have to invent it.

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....If the US didn't exist, Canada's health system would have to invent it.

So that's why I see so many Canadian license plates....I don't live far from the Mayo Clinic ! :lol:

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Some are, for sure.

I think you understood the "fror free" comment, but just in case... yes, we pay for our health care through our taxes. This means when we go to the doctor or the hospital of the lab for tests, there usually aren't any fees, so in essence, we're going for free. We don't have to sink ourselves into debt or declare bankruptcy if we're sick or injured.

Even the poor get decent health care.

They get shitty health care, same as everybody else. Why? Because it's manged by the government rather than private companies competing against each other. Sort of like the Post Office competing against Purolater for quality ontime deliveries except Purolater doesn't have five tiers of administration to go through along with pension, dental, five weeks paid vacation to pay for theirs.

You want good health care, get the government out of it, get people on welfare out of it, get private hospitals in on it, get private insurance companies in on it and then, let the government provide each and every Canadian with an amount to apply to a private insurance comapny to pick their own coverage along with the ability to add to the that coverage. Those on welfare get a base package as do MPs and all. Private industry can add to it as part of a benifit package.

It's not free. In fact, it's worse than free as the amount of bean counters added just to keep track of the money wasted on $5 cotton balls doubles the money that could be better spent on njurses, facilities, dental, and taxis to and from as well as retaining doctors to avoid the five hour waits that burn off a productive day for me and mine.

Free. Ya, just like roads just magically appear at no cost to anybody. Well, except the people who pay $1 per liter instead of 35 cents anyhow. :lol:

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You want good health care, get the government out of it, get people on welfare out of it, get private hospitals in on it, get private insurance companies in on it and then, let the government provide each and every Canadian with an amount to apply to a private insurance comapny to pick their own coverage along with the ability to add to the that coverage.
Health insurance is NOT product suited for free market competition because it is mostly impossible for individuals to purchase coverage for themselves. In the US, the majority of people are forced to find an employer who provides coverage because of this reality and this means that many Americans have little choice when it comes to choosing coverge (i.e. they have to take what the employer happens to offer).

Furthermore, the US health care system would collapse completely if the government actually left it to the free market like they have with life or fire insurance. The critical market manipulations include:

1) Tax subsidies for private health insurance premiums;

2) Large programs to cover uninsurable such as the elderly;

3) Laws preventing insurance companies from denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions;

4) Laws requiring hospitals to treat emergencies even if they are uninsured.

Now that does not mean the Canadian system is perfect but the self absorbed whiner featured on Fox seems to have forgotten that she had a lifetime worth of free coverage that would have cost a bundle in the US. She also assumes that she would have actually been able to get into a plan that did not include similar rationing via an HMO.

I think it is time for Canadians to wake up and accept that healthcare is not free and that no society and no system can afford to pay for all of the possible treatments for all of the people all of the time. This will be mean that poor people will die because they cannot afford the treatments in Canada as they do in the US. It is unfortunate but sometimes life is not fair, but given the choice between the two I think the Canadian system provides better care for more people than the US system.

Edited by Riverwind

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Health insurance is NOT product suited for free market competition because it is mostly impossible for individuals to purchase coverage for themselves. In the US, the majority of people are forced to find an employer who provides coverage because of this reality and this means that many Americans have little choice when it comes to choosing coverge (i.e. they have to take what the employer happens to offer).
The reason most Americans have employer-provided health insurance is because it is a non-taxed benefit. If employers simply paid higher salaries and then let individuals buy the insurance they wanted, employees would have to pay income tax on the amount. Employer health coverage is a tax free bonus.

Riverwind, it is odd that you then go on to point out how the US government skews health care choices.

If Obama were serious about health care reform in the US (with the goal to cut costs), he would start by treating employer paid health care premiums as a taxable benefit - with possibly a refundable tax credit.

------

Returning to the OP, it seems to me that Fox News should investigate cases where Canadian provincial health regimes send patients to the US for treatment. Why does this happen? Who makes the decision to pay for this? Ultimately, who makes any decision in Canada's health system?

The sad fact is that in Canada, we have handed over to nameless bureaucrats decisions about our health care. The potential for abuse is tremendous.

The woman in this story used the option of going to the US. More often in Canada, a patient or the doctor will start to lobby health bureaucrats to obtain the decision they want. Our health system is rife with lobbying and influence peddling in various forms. IME, it helps to have a family member working within the health system.

Edited by August1991

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The reason most Americans have employer-provided health insurance is because it is a non-taxed benefit.
It has that status because politicians realized that health care insurance is not something that can be pratically purchased as an individual. Subsidizing company plans is the US way to create the illusion that the health insurance system is a free market.
If Obama were serious about health care reform in the US (with the goal to cut costs), he would start by treating employer paid health care premiums as a taxable benefit - with possibly a refundable tax credit.
He would like to but too few Americans seem to understand the supplimentary health insurance model (i.e. the state provides a minimum level of care for everyone and private insurance covers the excess - this is the model that most Canadians use when they purchase health insurance for travel and it ensures that no one who can pay for care goes without).
Returning to the OP, it seems to me that Fox News should investigate cases where Canadian provincial health regimes send patients to the US for treatment. Why does this happen?
The US system is our overflow valve. If the system never had to outsource services then that would be a sign that the system has too much excess capacity.

I really don't see the big issue with outsourcing the delivery of health services even if they happen to be in the US. The fact that we can't find private hospitals in Canada is the the real issue and that has nothing to do with the single payer model of healthcare.

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It's not hard to find "Canucks" willing to sell out their health care system, starting with the people sent to the states by provinces.

Then it should have been easy to parade bus loads in this commerical. She's a lone voice of dissent. Where are her supporters? And consider the network. You have to realize our system is based on triage. And yes, some people don't like to wait in line for someone else who is far sicker to get treatment first. You can trot out an extreme case of some poor dude dying while waiting in an emergency waiting room (just like I can for the states), but we're ALL covered here. If people want to jump the line for treatment in the states, I say go for it. But is our system, and we don't lose our houses over medical bills. Nuff said.

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The sad fact is that in Canada, we have handed over to nameless bureaucrats decisions about our health care. The potential for abuse is tremendous.

This does not happen in the private insurance sector?

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It has that status because politicians realized that health care insurance is not something that can be pratically purchased as an individual. Subsidizing company plans is the US way to create the illusion that the health insurance system is a free market.

Of course health insurance can be purchased by an individual in the US. There are many types of policies and underwriters. And that includes dental insurance.

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Life expectancy is not soley related to health care systems.

Of course not but it does say something about them. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the more people you have with little or no coverage, the lower average life expectancy will be. Even if you aren't sick, it's surprising what effect a doctor's periodic carping at a regular checkup can do to encourage many people to adopt healthier lifestyles.

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Then it should have been easy to parade bus loads in this commerical. She's a lone voice of dissent. Where are her supporters? And consider the network. You have to realize our system is based on triage.

No doubt....as in "triage" for preemie beds in BC.....off to the "states" we go little one. Go Seahawks!

And yes, some people don't like to wait in line for someone else who is far sicker to get treatment first. You can trot out an extreme case of some poor dude dying while waiting in an emergency waiting room (just like I can for the states), but we're ALL covered here. If people want to jump the line for treatment in the states, I say go for it. But is our system, and we don't lose our houses over medical bills. Nuff said.

Don't need a house if I'm dead. Americans don't like to suffer in queue as a patriotic duty. Eff that. Canadians with means and private insurance don't like to wait either.

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