Jump to content
Political Discussion Forums
Sign in to follow this  
jdobbin

"Birthers" movement problem for GOP

Recommended Posts

Yes he does have a name.

That October 31, 2008 statement says that Dr. Fukino "ha personally seen and verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures

I don't see where he says it's anything different than what's been released ---

STATEMENT BY DR. CHIYOME FUKINO

“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

“No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai‘i.”

he has seen the record, as stored by the State of Hawai'i --- where does it say it is a paper document or is different than what has been released???

When conspiracists find they are at odds with reality, as they often are, they point to solid evidence of blank spaces which they have filled in themselves. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't see where he says it's anything different than what's been released ---

he has seen the record, as stored by the State of Hawai'i --- where does it say it is a paper document or is different than what has been released???

It doesn't. But if that's the case, why can't we see the original instead of a redacted version?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
who says there is a, "redacted version"

I saw it on Hardball the other night. I'll try and find the video.

Edited by Shady

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes he does have a name.

That October 31, 2008 statement says that Dr. Fukino "ha personally seen and verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures

I believe it's a she, but in any case that doctor made that statement in his/her capacity as Head of the Hawaii Department of Health, the branch of the State government responsible for the vital statistics systems and records.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks like more and more Republicans are going to hear from angry people about going after Obama for being more in Kenya.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/25444.html

And birthers say members should expect more of the same in the coming weeks.

“Absolutely,” says California resident Orly Taitz, the Russian-born attorney/dentist who has become a kind of ringleader for the movement. “It is a very important issue, one that politicians should have taken up a long time ago.”

Moments after speaking with POLITICO Saturday, Taitz posted a call to arms on her blog:

“I believe it is a serious concern and I hope that each and every decent American comes to town hall meetings with a video camera and demands action,” she wrote.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/...l#ixzz0MW9FWzfV

It is quickly becoming the main issue for many on the right.

Edited by jdobbin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It doesn't. But if that's the case, why can't we see the original instead of a redacted version?

Better question still. Why is it that a document that constitute legal proof of his birth in Hawaii not good enough?

I'll be generous here. I'll assume that it is your hatred of Barack Obama that causes you to be unable to think logically on that one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It looks like more and more Republicans are going to hear from angry people about going after Obama for being more in Kenya.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/25444.html

It is quickly becoming the main issue for many on the right.

You mean the "right out of their mind". This will prove to be a gift for the Democrats and a nightmare for Republicans. They align themselves with the morons, they risk losing the votes of people who have no time to waste with such idiocy. They shun them, and they lose their votes.

Perhaps there is an Obama conspiracy after all... create the false story around his alleged Kenyan birth to put the Republican in disarray. :lol::lol::lol:

Edited by CANADIEN

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I saw it on Hardball the other night. I'll try and find the video.

this fishing expedition turned into a big ugly cruise through an ocean of nonsense, right there at the beginning

the birthers are nothing if not pathetic nut-cases

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm still waiting for one of you to explain the difference between:

a) a certificate of live birth -- and

B) a birth certificate

I mean, sure it's a giggle a minute but shouldn't these conspiracy theories have at least an inkling of reality to them, somewhere????

A "Certification of Live Birth" is a short form birth certificate. The information included in the document may differ from state to state. A "Certification of Live Birth" from Hawaii will include the name and sex of the person, date of birth, hour of birth, island of birth, county of birth, mother's maiden name, mother's race, father's name, father's race, date accepted by registrar, a certificate number and seal. The seal may be different depending on the year it was printed.

A Birth Certificate, or "Certificate of Live Birth," is the long form birth certificate and contains more detailed information, including signatures of doctor(s), witnesses, vital statistics (length and weight), etc.

The Hawai'i State Department does not make clear whether the Certification is equal proof of birth of birth but according to the Department of Hawaiian Homelands:

"In order to process your application (to verify that you are a genuine native Hawaiian), DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL."

So, a long form Certificate (which requires less verification) is irrefutable and is never rejected when applying for jobs, passports, Hawaiian land, etc. and the Certification would require more extensive verification.

In other words, the Birth Certificate provides the details that prove that the certificate of Live Birth is valid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In other words, the Birth Certificate provides the details that prove that the certificate of Live Birth is valid.

In other other words... the Cert of Live Birth lets you know the details exist on the long version.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In other other words... the Cert of Live Birth lets you know the details exist on the long version.

Depends on what the Birth Certificate says. If there is a blank spot where the hospital and doctor would be along with a witness then they would claim it was a clerical error and simply state as such and burn out a Live Birth Certificate. We all know he was born, we all know he is registered as being born in Hawaii however, unless one sees the doctor, witness and such we are not certain and only figure that by all probability he was which is legal as far as I know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

THat's a lot of ifs.

The certificate of birth wouldn't have been issued if there were blanks.

You're really reaching here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
THat's a lot of ifs.

The certificate of birth wouldn't have been issued if there were blanks.

You're really reaching here.

I'm reaching? Excuse me, I have not reached for anything. I just don't believe that regardless of circumstances, a baby would be allowed to grow up without a birth certificate. Hence, sooner or later regardless of circumstances, he would have one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm reaching? Excuse me, I have not reached for anything. I just don't believe that regardless of circumstances, a baby would be allowed to grow up without a birth certificate. Hence, sooner or later regardless of circumstances, he would have one.

What?

You only get one if you order it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In other words, the Birth Certificate provides the details that prove that the certificate of Live Birth is valid.

And you source of information is?

Got to ask.

Because the actual laws (which I have quoted) distinguish between a certification (the document issued on request) and the certificate (the original record of the birth as kept by the Government).

The Hawai'i State Department does not make clear whether the Certification is equal proof of birth of birth

Bizarre, the law does.

Edited by CANADIEN

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm reaching? Excuse me, I have not reached for anything. I just don't believe that regardless of circumstances, a baby would be allowed to grow up without a birth certificate. Hence, sooner or later regardless of circumstances, he would have one.

By birth certificate, you mean a document issued by the government providing information from the original record, right? Gotta ask, becasue terminology varies by jurisdiction, and because so many people don't even have a clue as to what document they're talking about.

Parents forget to request one (interesting tidbit here: in Ontario, parents have to request the registration of the birth AND for a certified copy of the record (known in Ontario as a certificate - they don't ask for a certificate, they don't get it).

People send the certificate and they forget to ask for it to be sent back, or it is not returned (interesting tidbit: Canadian passport offices will return your request if you photocopy the certified copy you have received as a toddler; they want that one, or another certified copy issued more recently -- they rightly view both as valid, and btw THEY will return them with the passport).

People lose them in fires, accidents, theft, or simply because their place is a mess.

Which is EXACTLY why all jurisdiction will re-issue another certified copy on request of the person whose birth is documented on the original registration. The format may change overtime, the title on it may change overtime, what information is transcribed on it may change overtime. It still have the same legal value whether it was issued three weeks after the birth or more than 40 years later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In other words, the Birth Certificate provides the details that prove that the certificate of Live Birth is valid.

I don't see a source for your quote --- where did it come from?

as far as details --- what details would be needed to prove a baby had been born? your suggestion makes not a whit of sense

Edited by Guthrie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't see a source for your quote --- where did it come from?

here which used this as one of ot's refs.

The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person’s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.
as far as details --- what details would be needed to prove a baby had been born? your suggestion makes not a whit of sense

Absolutely none, save the person was living and breathing so we agree on that. To have more absolute proof other than a piece of paper that states he or she was born in a certain place at a certain time however, something with the attending doctor's name, signature, that of a witness and the hospital in which this event occured would be in order. This would be found on the certificte of birth rather than the certification of live birth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What's the difference between the two, anyway? Is it like the big version vs the wallet-sized one we can get here?

A baptismal is issued by a church and has the date of cirth, city parents and god parents. It is on lovely legal sized paper, has a seal and is signed by all attending, sometimes even the guest of honour....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Absolutely none, save the person was living and breathing so we agree on that. To have more absolute proof other than a piece of paper that states he or she was born in a certain place at a certain time however, something with the attending doctor's name, signature, that of a witness and the hospital in which this event occured would be in order. This would be found on the certificte of birth rather than the certification of live birth.

Are you saying unless a doctor is present during Birth someone is not a citizen? That seems silly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are you saying unless a doctor is present during Birth someone is not a citizen? That seems silly.

Well, if he's born in a hospital, then shouldn't there kinda be a doctor present? :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, if he's born in a hospital, then shouldn't there kinda be a doctor present? :rolleyes:

That isn't my issue mine is you asserting only people who were born with a doctor present are citizens.

Edited by punked

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That isn't my issue mine is you asserting only people who were born with a doctor present are citizens.

Are you saying that Obama may have been born without a doctor present?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HAY SHADY !!!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/28...test=latestnews

This is from Foxnews. And I know they are not really friendly to Obama, but this should settle this issue once and for all. If it does not, then who is wearing the tinfoil now?

"I ... have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen," Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said in a brief statement. "I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago."

snip

Fukino issued a similar press release Oct. 31, but was prompted to speak out again because of the renewed attention on Obama's beginnings. Hawaii's Health Department has been flooded in recent weeks with questions from individuals and several national TV news networks asking for proof that Obama was indeed born in Hawaii.

"They just keep asking over and over and over again," Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo said.

:) This next statement sums it all up.

However, Obama's birth certificate along with birth notices from the two Honolulu newspapers were brought forward even before he took office. But that's done nothing to shake the belief by many Obama critics that the president was born abroad.

Will the real Shady please pay attention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...