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Racism on the reserve


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Meh...I haven't done anything to yon Native Indians. I'd be seriously pissed if they did that to me based on skin colour.

Your very attitide is a crime in itself! :P The fact that there are many more dense, dumb rednecks, some of which are politicians has wasted billions of dollars with this dense, dumb attitide ;)

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First the Canadian Government sets guidelines on who is deemed native under Canada's Indian Act - it requires a certain level of blood ancestry. So there is that racism on who can be deemed first nations within the legislation existing in Canada.

As far as I am aware there are two classes of Indians by law in Canada, those who are members of a band, and those who are not. That is a separate issue.

chiefs and their council as far as I am aware are the ones who determine who can live on reserve. Usually non band members need permission of an on reserve band member to be able to be on reserve, such as a spouse.

While I am not totally aware of band bylaws for that reserve or who and how the residency on reserve is handled, I am fairly sure that the chief of that reserve would normally have the powers, like a super intendant to say who can live on reserve. I would guess that the band would have some means of imposing some type of petition or move to change their executive / chief, although this would determine on powers of impeachment or removal the band may have over their chief.

The whole racial thing is bogus - I think I should be able to be full status first nations if I sought to be we were both born on the same planet and the in the same countries. Fact is both their government and Canada's government have set definition status and a split privilege based on racism. Canada needs to end this instituted racism and give first nations the rights of Canadians, and Canadians the rights of the first nations.

Amazingly, your response kind of ties into my earlier post where I asked doggie to answer certain definitions like Bill C-31. it is no surprize that he'd even come close to answering....there are two types of people--the outright ignorant and the willfully ignorant. The willfully ignorant are the real arseholes in our society

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I live next door to a reserve that is also running out of room and housing. Their population is amongst the fastest growing population in Canada and like many reserves on the coast it is in the midst of treaty settlements. This fortunate change of events is prompting a lot of off-reserve natives to return home for the first time in years, many with new non-native family members. It's become apparent that a few of these new-comers are not fitting in well and are causing problems like break-ins and disturbing the peace etc. Necessity is driving these people, in some cases to use whatever laws they have available to do something about it.

Sooo, is it similarly okay for cities which are experiencing a lot of crime from natives to order them to leave? I think most the more violent street crime in the west is laid at the door of natives, is it not?

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Sooo, is it similarly okay for cities which are experiencing a lot of crime from natives to order them to leave? I think most the more violent street crime in the west is laid at the door of natives, is it not?

there are two types of people--the outright ignorant and the willfully ignorant. The willfully ignorant are the real arseholes in our society

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Sooo, is it similarly okay for cities which are experiencing a lot of crime from natives to order them to leave? I think most the more violent street crime in the west is laid at the door of natives, is it not?

No, I think you can lay almost all of that at the door of the War on Drugs, much of which ironically enough is rooted in racism against orientals, blacks, and...hippies I guess.

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These are powerful times for native people, and adjusting to that power is not going to happen with out a few bumps in the road. In the meantime I'm willing to cut them a little slack and I think you should to.

The point is those who are trying to call this "bump in the road" as something it is not. It certainly isn't the fault of the blood quantum laws or the Indian Act; Mohawks' brains are not programmed by this legislation; they are free-thinking individuals capable of coming to their own conclusions, and one would think our society should be pointing out, sans apology, this decision as what it is: blatant racism. Anything else is simply hypocritical excuse-making and enabling.

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I'm surprised this hasn't been raised already; as it's a First Nations matter, I think it falls under the category of federal politics:

The best part is, the so-called "Human Rights" tribunals have ruled this racism to be accepatble.

Ain't it grand?

I do agree that racism should not be tolerated of any group. We accept immigrants from around the world and simply expect them to learn our language and culture so as to integrate within our community.

Could we not simply expect the same of the First Nations? For example, all persons living on Mohawk territory are expected to send their children to the Mohawk elementary and secondary school where they will be expected to learn the Mohawk language and culture, either as a first or second language, along with all the others, and be expected to pay their taxes to the Mohawk Nation and of course have the same rights to services as the Mohawks?

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Could we not simply expect the same of the First Nations? For example, all persons living on Mohawk territory are expected to send their children to the Mohawk elementary and secondary school where they will be expected to learn the Mohawk language and culture, either as a first or second language, along with all the others, and be expected to pay their taxes to the Mohawk Nation and of course have the same rights to services as the Mohawks?
The Quebec language laws are an aberration in Canada and hardly an example to emulate. Teaching Mohawk language and culture to all kids attending reserve schools makes perfect sense. Telling parents they can't send their kids to an off reserve school is gross violation of rights.

As for taxes: no taxation without representation. If the Mohawks want to tax non-Mohawk residents then they must offer full democratic rights (to vote and to old office) to all Canadian citizens living on the reserves. That is the price they have to pay for being part of Canada. If they think that having their own citizenship rules is important they will need to set up a truly separate country with no financial support from Canada and customs agents at the border.

Edited by Riverwind
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The Quebec language laws are an aberration in Canada and hardly an example to emulate. Teaching Mohawk language and culture to all kids attending reserve schools makes perfect sense. Telling parents they can't send their kids to an off reserve school is gross violation of rights.

As for taxes: no taxation without representation. If the Mohawks want to tax non-Mohawk residents then they must offer full democratic rights (to vote and to old office) to all Canadian citizens living on the reserves. That is the price they have to pay for being part of Canada. If they think that having their own citizenship rules is important they will need to set up a truly separate country with no financial support from Canada and customs agents at the border.

You might want to take out the history books, again (Not that I expect you to be anything but comfortable in your own ignorance.)

Kahnawa:ke and the other Mohawk / Six Nations Territories are NOT in Canada. They are sovereign and independent allies of the Crown.

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They are sovereign and independent allies of the Crown.
May have been true then. Not now. All Mohawk territory falls under the sovereignty of Canada or the US. The only thing the Mohawks have are some special privileges that other citizens of Canada or the US do not have (e.g. the Jay Treaty).
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May have been true then. Not now. All Mohawk territory falls under the sovereignty of Canada or the US. The only thing the Mohawks have are some special privileges that other citizens of Canada or the US do not have (e.g. the Jay Treaty).

Charter's a bit slow and doesn't (or, doesn't want to) realise that, since the Royal Proclamation of 1763, First Nations in Canada have been under the Crown's sovereignty (first British, then Canadian). Ergo, they are not themselves sovereign.

[+ & punct]

Edited by g_bambino
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Ah, the National Post - the broke pretender voice of the petit-bourgeois. Even the Sun has cleaned up a little.

Let's look at the headline of the editorial: "Canada turns a blind eye to First Nations segregation" Generalizing about a specific. Or, rather, drawing a general conclusion from a specific incident or single community to paint a picture about "First Nations." That alone should give you a clue.

The last time Kahnawake was involved in this sort of controversy, it was because they kicked "whites" off the reserve. But not just any old whites, the criminal kind. And, if I remember correctly, there was the National Post morlaizing about a situation they were ill-informed of. Did anyone read this part in the story: "Even Kahnawake -- which is relatively prosperous by the standards of native reserves, being located near Montreal -- has become a strife-riddled center for drugs, contraband smuggling, and gang activity."

Hoofing undersirables from the community is nothing new, they have been doing it for years. Possibly hundreds or thousands of years. It is a "double standard" that I am sure a few of you wish we had in our own communities.

The trouble is, Band Council has their hands tied as to what is lawful. Members can legitimately reside on the reserve, even criminals, and it is difficult to remove them, especially with all the family ties. However, not so for non-members and they are routinely kicked off. Is this the case here? Again? I am sure there is more than meets the Post's eye.

Secondly, the Band Council can act according to the law under which they are governed, the Indian Act. It is not enough to say, 'let renegotiate the Indian Act' if you don't have any legitimate offers of something better to replace it with. Simply getting rid of the Indian Act and reserves is not going to happen.

Blood quantum is the measuring stick of the Indian Act and since the Canadian government uses it, why does it matter if other FN communities use it? The problem here is that - especially in Kahnawake - is that this is where traditional law and Canadian law conflict. According to traditions, people living in the 'kanata' belonged to the community through accepted cultural means via a clan designation. If you don't belong to a clan, have not been adopted into a clan, then you simply are not a part of the community. And it doesn't matter what your skin colour is.

So before you parrot the National Post, please take the time to know what you are talking about especially if you want to use it to paint a big picture.

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May have been true then. Not now. All Mohawk territory falls under the sovereignty of Canada or the US. The only thing the Mohawks have are some special privileges that other citizens of Canada or the US do not have (e.g. the Jay Treaty).

Nope. There has never been a capitulation, surrender, or an assumption over the sovereignty of the Six Nations. Any assumptions you make about it false.

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A few points to make:

The Quebec language laws are an aberration in Canada and hardly an example to emulate. Teaching Mohawk language and culture to all kids attending reserve schools makes perfect sense. Telling parents they can't send their kids to an off reserve school is gross violation of rights.

Let's say the US was a French-Spanish bilingual nation. Would the Province of Ontario allow a parent living in Niagara Falls Ontario to send his child to a Spanish medium school across the border in Niagara Falls New York where French is taught as a second language and English is not even compulsory? I don't know the answer to this since it is after all a hypothetical question. But it does pose the question of whether a nation has the right to ensure that the children living within its borders learn its language and culture. On that front, my guess is that the Province of Ontario would likely allow such a situation on the condition that that school in New York State teach that child English compulsorily. And I suspect you would agree to this, otherwise before you new it, Niagara Falls Ontario would soon become a French_Spanish bilingual community with many people not speaking English. Looking at it that way, it would seem reasonable for the Mohawk Nation to require all children living on the reserve to learn the national language of the Mohawk regardless of what school they attend. in other words, if they attend an off-reserve school, then that school must teach the Mohawk language and culture to that child compulsorily. That would be reasonable just as it would be for Ontario in the hypothetical scenario above.

As for taxes: no taxation without representation.

There are people working in Canada on work visas who pay their taxes and yet still can't vote. So, should we give them the vote too? My answer would be yes, on the same grounds you just pointed to above. Somehow though, I suspect some would feel more comfortable with a double standard.

If the Mohawks want to tax non-Mohawk residents then they must offer full democratic rights (to vote and to old office) to all Canadian citizens living on the reserves. That is the price they have to pay for being part of Canada.

Uhm, many First Nations do not even consider themselves Canadian. What price should I pay for something that's been forced on me. Isn't being Canadian the price they're paying?

If they think that having their own citizenship rules is important they will need to set up a truly separate country with no financial support from Canada and customs agents at the border.

That's fine. Meanwhile, will we give them their land back?

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I suppose one solution if the First Nations refuse to grant voting rights to non-Mohawks living on the reserve, would be to make them tax exempt on the one hand, but be on their own on the other in terms of having to pay for their own children's education, etc. This would still not change the fact that while living on their land, they would still be subject to the education laws of the land. however, it would still be reasonable to grant voting rights to anyone who has chosen to integrate by learning the local language and culture.

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There has never been a capitulation, surrender, or an assumption over the sovereignty of the Six Nations. Any assumptions you make about it false.
[T]he several Nations or Tribes of Indians with whom We are connected, and who live under our Protection, should not be molested or disturbed in the Possession of such Parts of Our Dominions and Territories as... are reserved to them...

And We do further... reserve under our Sovereignty, Protection, and Dominion, for the use of the said Indians, all the Lands and Territories not included within the Limits of Our said Three new Governments, or within the Limits of the Territory granted to the Hudson's Bay Company, as also all the Lands and Territories lying to the Westward of the Sources of the Rivers which fall into the Sea from the West and North West as aforesaid.

Whereas His Majesty having been pleased to direct that... a convenient tract of land under his protection should be chosen as a safe and comfortable retreat for them and others of the Six Nations... I do hereby in His Majesty's name authorize and permit the said Mohawk Nation and such others of the Six Nation Indians as wish to settle in that quarter to take possession of and settle upon the Banks of the River commonly called Ours [Ouse] or Grand River...

[+]

Edited by g_bambino
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As the Minster of Indian Affairs said today, HE has no power over this situation it is a First Nation law. He also said its up to the First Nation to settle it. The Chief has said that the natives that married or who are living with non-natives knew what the rules were and now are trying to change them.

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As the Minster of Indian Affairs said today, HE has no power over this situation it is a First Nation law. He also said its up to the First Nation to settle it. The Chief has said that the natives that married or who are living with non-natives knew what the rules were and now are trying to change them.

Curious how the Charter's scope only includes First Nations when it protects them from discrimination, and not, apparently, others from being discriminated against by First Nations.

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Curious how the Charter's scope only includes First Nations when it protects them from discrimination, and not, apparently, others from being discriminated against by First Nations.

The answer is simple! The goverment and media has and continues to "pull the wool" over your eyes.

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How about white-on-white racism?

The City of Oshawa, the Durham Regional Police and the Ontario Provincial Police raided and "seized" a legal home base for the Hells Angels on a residential street. This was in September 2006. The raid was conducted as part of an "investigation" in which conspiracy to murder charges were laid against a couple of members of the club.

It is true that the law enforcement branch of Oshawa does not like the Hell Angels race and decided to get rid of them for once and for all. They were warned it was going to happen. They have neen effectively kicked out of the city now. Those that stayed were given written warnings and threats about curtailing their offensive activities.

What about discrimination towards the Hells Angels?

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What about discrimination towards the Hells Angels?

Not just the hells angels but all known criminal organizations.

The oppression that criminals face from the law enforcement organizations is a black mark on Canada!!

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The oppression that criminals face from the law enforcement organizations is a black mark on Canada!!

Hear, hear! And the criminal race is such a noble breed, their robbery, raping, and murder a way of getting in touch with the gentle spirit of Mother Earth. Only a barbarian would opress these people merely because of the colour of their bandanas.

[c/e]

Edited by g_bambino
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