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Moonlight Graham

Great quote by Trudeau on Canada-US relations

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there are those opportunities for french immersion in urban areas but not nearly enough,

Yeah, now, but I was talking about when he first came to power. The only french we had in school back in the 60's was from grade 10 - 12. And it was just tokenism really, given it was an optional course.

edit: Now that I ponder back I think one had to have some French to matriculate or go to University.

Edited by scorpio

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Guest American Woman

I regret not learning French when I had the opportunity...

here's a Euro joke...

If you speak four languages you are multilingual

If you speak three languages you are trilingual..

If you speak two languages you're bilingual

what are you if you speak only one language................................american....

Funny Euro joke. B)

Considering learning English is the only way most Europeans have of communicating with anyone outside of their border, and considering most countries are the size of a state, makes sense that a lot more Europeans than Americans would be bilingual. If they could travel as extensively, as far and wide as Americans can without running into a language barrier, I'm guessing there wouldn't be as many bilingual Europeans, either.

Kind of like how a lot more Francophones than Anglophones are bilingual in Canada .

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Funny Euro joke. B)

Considering learning English is the only way most Europeans have of communicating with anyone outside of their border, and considering most countries are the size of a state, makes sense that a lot more Europeans than Americans would be bilingual.

obviously that isn't true if they speak a number of languages and can choose from several to communicate in...in a shrinking global economy those who only speak one language will lose out...

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there are programs to help people in the civil service learn the other language where necessary. To join the military, you don't need to know both languages, just as with the RCMP. With CSIS, or the CSEC you do though.
I am advised that in practice the English speakers keep their job or military rank, but have a much harder time getting promoted than they would if there weren't an anti-English tilt.

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It's amazing how quickly the rabid right pounces when Trudeau's name is mentioned. The guy has been out of politics for 26 years, dead 10 years. Get over it.

I'm a rabid leftwinger and I'd still spit on his grave. A real Jew-hater.

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I don't think Trudeau went far enough; I would have like to have seen French immersion from kindergarten to grade 12. And you're right, many more opportunites do open up with another language under your belt.

And who's to pay to maintain the quality of the school system when it's concentrating on language politics.

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I'm a rabid leftwinger and I'd still spit on his grave. A real Jew-hater.

Aah, now I know who peed on his grave a while back ;)

As for the jewish question, I guess everyone has an opinion. Seems to me he was pretty clear on his stand towards Israel and jews in general. link

Edited by scorpio

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And who's to pay to maintain the quality of the school system when it's concentrating on language politics.

we all pay and unlike the US we have a great school system...learning to speak other languages is not politics, it's education...

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.... unlike the US we have a great school system....

All those nobel laureates, phd's..doctors, lawyers, engineers..etc...were just born that way.

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All those nobel laureates, phd's..doctors, lawyers, engineers..etc...were just born that way.

that same educational system that produced an adult population where 20% of adults think the sun orbits the earth, 50% aren't aware how long it takes the earth to orbit the sun, 60% think a 900 year old man built a boat to hold and feed two of every animal on the planet for forty days...I could go on but generally the US is one poorly educated country where 20% drags the other 80% along into the future...

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that same educational system that produced an adult population where 20% of adults think the sun orbits the earth, 50% aren't aware how long it takes the earth to orbit the sun, 60% think a 900 year old man built a boat to hold and feed two of every animal on the planet for forty days...I could go on but generally the US is one poorly educated country where 20% drags the other 80% along into the future...

Not sure where those numbers are from, but my guess is if they are in anyway accurate, Canada's would not be so different.

I think it is suffice to say that the literacy rate for canada and the US is the same as well as the number who have completed high school with 85% in the US and 83.3% in Canada.

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I believe the numbers in Canada (I've seen some of those figures somewhere) are somewhat lower than the US. Not a huge amount, but lower.

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I believe the numbers in Canada (I've seen some of those figures somewhere) are somewhat lower than the US. Not a huge amount, but lower.

completing a level of school means little...it's the content and proficiency...how can adult who has completed high school not know the earth orbits the sun? it speaks to the quality of the education system...I just asked my 10 yr old, 4th grade far from a high school graduate, "the earth orbits the sun in 300 something, something days"...I can give him some slack not knowing the exact number of days he is ten after all...

I watched an american quiz show last year an a Uni student was asked...Q- "what is the largest country in North America"...answer "ASIA!"...now I could understand in the pressure of the moment and a US centric education she said USA but Asia?

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....I watched an american quiz show last year an a Uni student was asked...Q- "what is the largest country in North America"...answer "ASIA!"...now I could understand in the pressure of the moment and a US centric education she said USA but Asia?

That's why the stoooopid Americans invented Google....not Canada.

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Aah, now I know who peed on his grave a while back ;)

As for the jewish question, I guess everyone has an opinion. Seems to me he was pretty clear on his stand towards Israel and jews in general. link

His tilt towards the Nazis and the equivocal nature of the support shown for Israel, as evidenced by the very article you linked, is enough to show his true colors.

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Guest American Woman
I watched an american quiz show last year an a Uni student was asked...Q- "what is the largest country in North America"...answer "ASIA!"...now I could understand in the pressure of the moment and a US centric education she said USA but Asia?

What was the name of that American quiz show?

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we all pay and unlike the US we have a great school system...learning to speak other languages is not politics, it's education...

How does a great school system have Grade 4 teachers (at least two of them) from Peterborough, Ontario who have no idea who Montcalm and Wolfe are or what happened at the Plains of Abraham. I guess only dumb Yanks know that.

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that same educational system that produced an adult population where 20% of adults think the sun orbits the earth, 50% aren't aware how long it takes the earth to orbit the sun, 60% think a 900 year old man built a boat to hold and feed two of every animal on the planet for forty days...I could go on but generally the US is one poorly educated country where 20% drags the other 80% along into the future...

For an American I'm relatively poorly educated, and yet I am not guilty of those educational omissions.

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His tilt towards the Nazis and the equivocal nature of the support shown for Israel, as evidenced by the very article you linked, is enough to show his true colors.

Lol, you mean when he drove around Quebec with what looked like a nazi helmut? You're kidding right? Have you ever heard of youthful frivolity? True colours? As for his stand on Israel, as a jew you'd never be satisfied with anything he said regarding equality in the middle east unless it highly favoured Israel and only Israel. And that belief comes dangerously close to the category of persecution complex.

Edited by scorpio

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Well, it's interesting to note that Trudeau attracts as much attention here as he did while alive.

Busted. In his own words, from page 218 of Memoirs by Trudeau: "When Nixon's tapes later became public, it was obvious that Nixon was very angry with this decision and he had called me some nasty names. My only response was that I had been called worse things by better people."
I must certainly concede that I was wrong, and I stand corrected.

I will add though a few (longish) quibbles: Trudeau was hardly the first person to say "Better people have said worse things about me." (Trudeau's "Memoirs" were published in 1993. The report of the quote arrives some 20 years after the event.)

In the same sense, there is some doubt whether Trudeau even wrote these "Memoirs". When I first read the book, I doubted it and I was not alone in suspecting that the book was ghost written. The style is not Trudeau's. (BTW, Chretien's 1986 autobiography had been ghost-written.)

When Trudeau retired in 1984, he said that he would not write any memoirs. Then (typical Trudeau), he did something original and made a documentary film about his life. (If you can see the film, it's fascinating. IIRC, there's a scene of an adult Trudeau head in hand in his boyhood home in Outremont, describing his feelings upon learning that his father had suddenly died. There are scenes in Paris and Harvard, and a famous scene of him - old man - in a canoe. It's like a US reality show with Trudeau travelling to places in his life.)

As a result of the success of this documentary, Trudeau was under pressure to produce a book. He didn't want to. Eventually, he accepted to go along with a book project, as an accompaniement to the documentary. The book has no footnotes, lots of pictures and large font. The book is pedestrian and has hackneyed phrases that were not Trudeau's style. Trudeau might have gone along with the idea as a way to prevent the election of the PQ. (Parizeau was elected in 1994.)

OTOH, there is no doubt that Trudeau wrote the articles opposing Mulroney's Meech Lake agreement in the late 1980s. They are fresh and direct.

Incidentally, John Kennedy also abhorred hackneyed phrases and would refuse to read speeches that contained them.

-----

I guess my point here is that Trudeau had an original turn of phrase (in both English and French) and IMV, this quote given by AW does not do his style justice. Trudeau is still vilified among separatists in Quebec and it's unlikely that the BQ would elect any MPs if Trudeau could be resurrected as a federal candidate.

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I'm a rabid leftwinger and I'd still spit on his grave. A real Jew-hater.
Trudeau, a jew hater? He was elected in Montreal's Mont-Royal riding. The current MP (Liberal) is Irwin Cotler.

But jbg, your post reminds me of a good Trudeau quote (and I paraphrase): "Quebec separatists would make the West Island the Danzig of the New World."

I may not have the exact wording but only Trudeau could express such an idea. I think he wrote that in the late 1950s or early 1960s. Trudeau had a sharp tongue.

Edited by August1991

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Guest American Woman

I must certainly concede that I was wrong, and I stand corrected.

Apology accepted for accusing me more than once of "pretending he said it." ;)

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Guest American Woman

that same educational system that produced an adult population where 20% of adults think the sun orbits the earth, 50% aren't aware how long it takes the earth to orbit the sun, 60% think a 900 year old man built a boat to hold and feed two of every animal on the planet for forty days...I could go on but generally the US is one poorly educated country where 20% drags the other 80% along into the future...

News flash. The American education system doesn't teach students about Noah's Ark. :rolleyes:

You might want to spend a little more time focusing on your own county's ignorance, though:

There's not much national pride to be drawn from a new poll published just in time for Canada Day. The Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey suggests the country knows little about its own history - even its most recent history. link

Some examples:

Only 42 per cent of respondents knew Canada had three territories - which, when compared with some of the other results from the 13-question survey, could be ranked as a towering success.

When asked who was the previous prime minister, only 31 per cent named Paul Martin.

Twenty-two per cent said Stephen Harper, 18 per cent said Jean Chretien, a handful of respondents said Kim Campbell, and 22 per cent couldn't name anyone at all.

I've read the results of surveys regarding ignorance/lack of knowledge for both of our nations, and we are basically tied in that area.

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Guest American Woman
American Woman, on 04 March 2010 - 07:44 PM, said: Funny Euro joke. B)

Considering learning English is the only way most Europeans have of communicating with anyone outside of their border, and considering most countries are the size of a state, makes sense that a lot more Europeans than Americans would be bilingual.

obviously that isn't true if they speak a number of languages and can choose from several to communicate in...in a shrinking global economy those who only speak one language will lose out...

What part of "learning English" translates to they " speak a number of languages and can choose from several to communicate in....?"

I repeat. They learn English as a common language, so when, for example, someone from the Netherlands goes to Germany, they both speak English as a common language.

As I said, it's why there are so many more Francophones in Canada who are fluent English than there are Anglophones who are fluent in French and why more Anglophones within Quebec are fluent in French than Anglophones outside of Quebec.

Necessity is a great motivator.

Edited by American Woman

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