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Mosque going up in NYC building


Guest American Woman

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Again...this is patently false. As stated in US Public Law, it was the policy of the United States to remove Saddam Hussein and establish a democratic government in Iraq.

Are you talking about the policy law that turned out to have several incorrect statements in it? Like, Iraq possessing WMD, being a threat to the US and harboring terrorists?

But yes, you are totally correct about regime change. The US accomplished replacing Saddam with an Iranian friendly government and increasing Iran's powers in the region.

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But yes, you are totally correct about regime change. The US accomplished replacing Saddam with an Iranian friendly government and increasing Iran's powers in the region.

Then why is the "lie" about the US and allies not achieving any objectives acceptable? What is your problem with Iran?

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They both elude to the same problem, but the mindset is completely different; and that's what's being discussed here. Do you truly not get that, or are you purposely avoiding addressing the real issue?

Well, it's the problem that is the problem not what mindset you are in. We both agree what the problem is.

Let me put it to you another way. If I were to say "there are some extremists within Islam causing problems that need to be resolved," would you perceive it the same way if I instead said, "those ignorant cowardly Muslims should be wiped off the face of the earth?" Both statements, after all, "elude to the same problem." Yet I'm guessing you'd think the second statement was ignorant, and if I had said that, and you called it ignorant, and I came back with "what's wrong with saying 'there are some extremists within Islam causing problems....,'" what would your reaction be?

Since extremists are the cause of the problem,. the cure is to wipe those individuals out. I don't see a problem with the statements. It does elude to the real problem is that they need to be dealt with. Plain and simple. There are extremists Muslims who ARE the problem. That can't be denied. And I have never denied that.

So I'll just say this: if top US commanders and politicians were to "also say," which they most definitely have not, that "the US army is slinking home reeking of defeat.....The US accomplished nothing," yes, I would think it was very ignorant. Extremely so.

http://humanrights.change.org/blog/view/how_the_us_congress_is_divided_on_war

http://www.counterfire.org/index.php/news/102-video/4334-us-congress-members-against-war-in-afghanistan

They have been saying things .. are you paying attention?

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Guest American Woman

Well, it's the problem that is the problem not what mindset you are in.

The issue is the mindset. "Anti-Americanism" and "Ignorance" are a mindset, so it's the mindset that I responded to. You took the quote I was responding about, which was indicative of the mindset, changed it, and went on from there as if I were responding to YOUR comment. Which I most definitely was not, and therefore will not go there until you recognize that.

They have been saying things .. are you paying attention?

I never said they haven't "been saying things." I SAID they haven't said what YOU claim they have said.

So either start paying attention to what's being discussed, and respond accordingly, or find someone else to play your games -- because I'm not interested.

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The issue is the mindset. "Anti-Americanism" and "Ignorance" are a mindset, so it's the mindset that I responded to. You took the quote I was responding about, which was indicative of the mindset, changed it, and went on from there as if I were responding to YOUR comment. Which I most definitely was not, and therefore will not go there until you recognize that.

However I don't see those statements as anti-american, or even ignorant for that matter. It's the truth that it's not going well over there, and has not been going well for some time. And that is the issue, not whether you think a statement that states exactly that or whether you think it's ignorant. It's ignorant to NOT see what the problem is there.

I never said they haven't "been saying things." I SAID they haven't said what YOU claim they have said.

My claim is that they have said the war is not going well. Am I lying? Or is this ignorance on my part?

So either start paying attention to what's being discussed, and respond accordingly, or find someone else to play your games -- because I'm not interested.

Well considering this is a little off topic now, what are we discussing?

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Where have I said anything anti-American?

You ooze anti-Americanism. Your posts read like cheerleaders for the opposite side. Sometimes it's overt, but usually it's coded. But even then it's pretty hard to not detect your delight at the prospects of things not going as well in Iraq or Afghanistan. Sometimes it's hard to tell you apart from the Khadr family. You could be their spokesman.

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You ooze anti-Americanism. Your posts read like cheerleaders for the opposite side. Sometimes it's overt, but usually it's coded. But even then it's pretty hard to not detect your delight at the prospects of things not going as well in Iraq or Afghanistan. Sometimes it's hard to tell you apart from the Khadr family. You could be their spokesman.

Proof?

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Give it some time for this to digest.

From May 2010:

Not the same thing at all. If a group of extremist Jews wiped out a neighborhood of Muslims with bombs, do you think it would be perfectly ok for other Jews to then build a synagogue on land that became available to them because of the mass murders/destruction at the hands of the extremist Jews? Or would you, as a Jew, see that as a bit insensitive?

this guy writes that the effect of the 2006 bombings was devastating. About 1,200 Lebanese civilians were killed, which put on the US scale would be the equivalent of 90,000 Americans. And he writes:

..that's the equivalent of roughly thirty 9/11's Israel exacted on Lebanon in July and August 2006 over the course of 34 days—nearly one 9/11 a day for an entire month without relent.

Incidentally, July and August of 2006 only tell a small part of the story when it comes to Israeli aggression against Lebanon. There have been decades of invasion, devastation, and occupation which predated 2006. Several thousands of Lebanese have been killed at the hands of the Israeli Defense Force. Tens of billions of dollars of damage have been levied on the Lebanese infrastructure and private and public property courtesy of the IDF over the course of decades.

"Ground Zero" for Lebanon is an ever expanding, never ending, open wound that never heals.

So what now Newt?

Should you expect the Lebanese to allow a synagogue to be built on their Ground Zero, in the aftermath of a 9/11 that occurred 5 years after ours and which, "proportionately" speaking, was 30 times the size of ours?

Well guess what you hateful, misguided, twit?

THEY DID.

In the process of re-building Beirut yet again, in 2008, renovations began and have now been completed on the Maghden Abraham Synagogue located in the middle of newly renovated downtown Beirut in an area known as the "Solidere" which has become the focal point and showcase of Lebanon's rebirth.

This isn't some hole in the wall, nondescript, "excuse me" synagogue hidden out of view so as to not "offend" Lebanese non-Jews—this is an elaborate, ornate, beautifully designed, cathedral-style house of worship built for a Lebanese Jewish population that totals less than 500 in a country of more than 4,000,000 (in stark contrast to the eight million American Muslims living in the United States).

You can read more about the synagogue here. Even Hassan Nasrallah of Hezbollah sanctioned the building of the mosque, saying his beef was not with Judaism but with Israel.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/michaeltomasky/2010/sep/07/ground-zero-lebanon

The last part of the article is interesting. Nasrallah is more tolerant than Gingrich and Palin. Go figure.

Edited by naomiglover
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You ooze anti-Americanism. Your posts read like cheerleaders for the opposite side. Sometimes it's overt, but usually it's coded. But even then it's pretty hard to not detect your delight at the prospects of things not going as well in Iraq or Afghanistan. Sometimes it's hard to tell you apart from the Khadr family. You could be their spokesman.

This from the guy who can't say enough bad things about their leader, and takes delight when things there go wrong. Sometimes it's hard to tell you apart from the Khadr family. :lol:

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Guest American Woman

Give it some time for this to digest.

Here's what I said, what you quoted:

....do you think it would be perfectly ok for other Jews to then build a synagogue on land that became available to them because of the mass murders/destruction at the hands of the extremist Jews?

That land didn't become available because of their actions; the synagogue was already there. Since 1925, I believe. It was renovated, on property where it had existed for decades. If Park 51 were a mosque that had been on that property for decades, and it was damaged on 9-11, do you think anyone at all would be objecting to their renovating it??

Edited by American Woman
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This from the guy who can't say enough bad things about their leader

I do say bad things, based on policy.

and takes delight when things there go wrong.

No I don't take any delight. In fact it's pretty frustrating to watch people suffer when it doesn't have to be the case.

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paternalism, colonialism, economic imperialism, political interference, racial prejudice,ethnic cleansing all fueled the development of Islamic fanaticism...the UK and France started the entire mess and the USA picked up where the other two left off...911 is what happens when governments become arrogant and don't learn from history...

And the persecution of the Jews didn't have the same result. Why?
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Give it some time for this to digest.

From May 2010:

this guy writes that the effect of the 2006 bombings was devastating. About 1,200 Lebanese civilians were killed, which put on the US scale would be the equivalent of 90,000 Americans. And he writes:

..that's the equivalent of roughly thirty 9/11's Israel exacted on Lebanon in July and August 2006 over the course of 34 days—nearly one 9/11 a day for an entire month without relent.

Incidentally, July and August of 2006 only tell a small part of the story when it comes to Israeli aggression against Lebanon. There have been decades of invasion, devastation, and occupation which predated 2006. Several thousands of Lebanese have been killed at the hands of the Israeli Defense Force. Tens of billions of dollars of damage have been levied on the Lebanese infrastructure and private and public property courtesy of the IDF over the course of decades.

"Ground Zero" for Lebanon is an ever expanding, never ending, open wound that never heals.

So what now Newt?

Should you expect the Lebanese to allow a synagogue to be built on their Ground Zero, in the aftermath of a 9/11 that occurred 5 years after ours and which, "proportionately" speaking, was 30 times the size of ours?

Well guess what you hateful, misguided, twit?

THEY DID.

In the process of re-building Beirut yet again, in 2008, renovations began and have now been completed on the Maghden Abraham Synagogue located in the middle of newly renovated downtown Beirut in an area known as the "Solidere" which has become the focal point and showcase of Lebanon's rebirth.

This isn't some hole in the wall, nondescript, "excuse me" synagogue hidden out of view so as to not "offend" Lebanese non-Jews—this is an elaborate, ornate, beautifully designed, cathedral-style house of worship built for a Lebanese Jewish population that totals less than 500 in a country of more than 4,000,000 (in stark contrast to the eight million American Muslims living in the United States).

You can read more about the synagogue here. Even Hassan Nasrallah of Hezbollah sanctioned the building of the mosque, saying his beef was not with Judaism but with Israel.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/michaeltomasky/2010/sep/07/ground-zero-lebanon

The last part of the article is interesting. Nasrallah is more tolerant than Gingrich and Palin. Go figure.

Yes, but that synagogue is being built for local Jews, not the Jews who caused the carnage. You can't blame all Jews for the actions of some who caused these crimes in the name of God. If you start punushing Jew X for the actions of Jew Y, then you're giving Jew Y ready fodder for his propaganda campaign, and you can guarantee he'll use this to legitimize further carnage...

... Oh, kind of parallel to the New York centre.

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Guest American Woman

Yes, but that synagogue is being built for local Jews.....

... Oh, kind of parallel to the New York centre.

No, it's not "being built." It was already built. Decades ago. It's being renovated. There's no "parallel" at all to the mosque being built on property only available because of the destruction on 9-11. Again. If this mosque had been there for decades, and was damaged on 9-11, who do you think would be objecting if they were merely renovating it?

Good Lord. People just pull things out of the air in a desperate attempt to make a point and then ignore the obvious when it's pointed out, as if by doing so, that changes the reality.

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No, it's not "being built." It was already built. Decades ago. It's being renovated. There's no "parallel" at all to the mosque being built on property only available because of the destruction on 9-11. Again. If this mosque had been there for decades, and was damaged on 9-11, who do you think would be objecting if they were merely renovating it?

Good Lord. People just pull things out of the air in a desperate attempt to make a point and then ignore the obvious when it's pointed out, as if by doing so, that changes the reality.

Well, if it was there before and it wouldn't be a problem, why is it a problem now?

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Well, if it was there before and it wouldn't be a problem, why is it a problem now?

Because before it was a modest mosque and prayer space and now it's a 13-story monument and political statement.

-k

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Guest American Woman

Well, if it was there before and it wouldn't be a problem, why is it a problem now?

Because if it was there before, it wouldn't be being built on property available only because of 9-11. If it was there before, there wouldn't be a mosque on that property only because of 9-11. If it was there before, there wouldn't be any ties to 9-11. If it was there before, Imam Rauf wouldn't be singling it out for "building bridges" because of it's ties to 9-11. How many times does that have to be pointed out to you?

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Because before it was a modest mosque and prayer space

I see, so Muslims can only pray in places that don't offend our sensibilities. They have to be modest. Out of sight, out of mind after all.

and now it's a 13-story monument and political statement.

-k

And that belief is based on such a great deal of evidence, too..... :lol:

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