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bush_cheney2004

Before Moving To Canada....

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Americans have the same PR problem that muslims have. For whatever reason human beings are clicquey and tribal, and they almost always fall for group think and generalisations.

Like I said before It comes down to how much real experience you have with a group.

The people who only know Americans indirectly through the media, or through news stories or commentary about the US government are likely to have a negative view of Americans as a whole, where as people who actually spend time with Americans are a lot less likely to have that negative perception.

This has nothing to do with Canadians though, and this perception is held to varying degrees throughout the entire world. Its something Americans do to other countries and cultures as well. So im really not sure what the point of whining about it is.

If the point is that canadians are capable of group think, and tribal minded xenophobia then NO-FUCKIN-DUH! :rolleyes:

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..This has nothing to do with Canadians though, and this perception is held to varying degrees throughout the entire world. Its something Americans do to other countries and cultures as well. So im really not sure what the point of whining about it is.

It has everything to do with Canadians, as no other nation has such first, second, and third order American resentment born over time.

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Of course...as this is your only recourse in the face of thorny opinions and observations. Gee, why can't those Americans just shut up and let us go on and on about them without challenge?

What "thorny opinions and observations"?

These things arent even contraversial. Many Canadians hold some negative stereotypes about Americans for the reasons I explained. Big fuckin deal... Many Americans hold similar negative stereotypes about Muslims, Iranians, French, Europeans, Africans, and so on and so on.

This is just what people do... and its one of biproducts of nationalism, racism, religionism, and other types of group think. You act like this is some big piece of news for Canadians but its not.

This is what people do. It happens virtually ANY time theres identifiable groups. For example... it happens between the US and Canada, but it also happens between the Americas and Europe. And if you zoom in closer youll see that Canadians even do it to other Canadians. Western Canadians have similar opinions about Eastern Canadians and vice versa. Zoom in even closer... kids at one junior highschool will hold similar generalizations about kids at another junior highschool.

Its almost like youve only been human for a couple of days or something.

And ironic thing is that you guys dont even realize your doing the exact same thing youre talking about. Youre hanging out on a Canadian message boards, generalizing Canadians as smug anti-american hypocrits :lol::lol::lol:

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...These things arent even contraversial. Many Canadians hold some negative stereotypes about Americans for the reasons I explained. Big fuckin deal... Many Americans hold similar negative stereotypes about Muslims, Iranians, French, Europeans, Africans, and so on and so on.

...but not Canadians? Err....the French are Europeans.

This is just what people do... and its one of biproducts of nationalism, racism, religionism, and other types of group think. You act like this is some big piece of news for Canadians but its not.

It's not news at all...I don't need to relocate to Toronto.

And ironic thing is that you guys dont even realize your doing the exact same thing youre talking about. Youre hanging out on a Canadian message boards, generalizing Canadians as smug anti-american hypocrits :lol::lol::lol:

It's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it. The good news is that I don't have to watch Canadian television!

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It has everything to do with Canadians, as no other nation has such first, second, and third order American resentment born over time.

According to the polls Iv seen Canadian opinion on Americans is the LEAST of your problem, and one of the countries where a negative perception of Americans is the LEAST prevailent.

"The negative view that Canadians have of George (W) Bush does not, however, extend to Americans in general," said Darrell Bricker, president of North American Public Affairs for Ipsos-Reid. "Eighty per cent of Canadians say they like Americans. This is not surprising. No matter how you measure it, most Canadians regard Americans as closest cousins."

80% Of Canadians have a favorable view of Americans.

At least seven in 10 in France, Germany and Spain said they had an unfavourable view of President Bush. Just over half of the French and Germans said they had an unfavourable view of Americans in general, and about half of Spaniards felt that way.

But with French, Spanish, and Germans that number was less than 50%.

And Americans have a very favorable view of Canadians.

A Gallup poll published last week asked Americans for their perceptions of 20 nations that figure prominently in the news or U.S. foreign policy. For the second year running, Canada ranked first, with 90 percent of Americans viewing us favo(u)rably (dont think less of me, but Canadian spelling has a u).

So the reality is that even with people like you and AW trying your hardest to find something for us to argue about there really isnt much there. You guys clearly dont like Canadians much, and clearly theres group thinkers in Canada that dont like the US much either. The beauty of it is though that youre all pretty much freaks. Statistical anomolies. The number of people that buy into this nonsense is too small to matter or be taken seriously.

Canada and the US probably have one of the strongest relationships between any two countries in history, on balance our populations have mutual respect for each other and favorable opinions of each other.

Edited by dre

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...but not Canadians? Err....the French are Europeans.

It's not news at all...I don't need to relocate to Toronto.

It's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it. The good news is that I don't have to watch Canadian television!

It's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it.

No not really... its actually not even a real "job" and it would make no difference if anyone did it or not. :lol:

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According to the polls Iv seen Canadian opinion on Americans is the LEAST of your problem, and one of the countries where a negative perception of Americans is the LEAST prevailent.

Not according to the author's private experience, the subject of this thread.

80% Of Canadians have a favorable view of Americans.

....but not the American government....right?

But with French, Spanish, and Germans that number was less than 50%.

And Americans have a very favorable view of Canadians.

...mostly indifferent view.

So the reality is that even with people like you and AW trying your hardest to find something for us to argue about there really isnt much there. You guys clearly dont like Canadians much, and clearly theres group thinkers in Canada that dont like the US much either. The beauty of it is though that youre all pretty much freaks. Statistical anomolies. The number of people that buy into this nonsense is too small to matter or be taken seriously.

I'm sure President Bush will be happy to hear that.

Canada and the US probably have one of the strongest relationships between any two countries in history, on balance our populations have mutual respect for each other and favorable opinions of each other.

...except when they don't, and that's OK. Pretending otherwise is just so...Canadian.

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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Not according to the author's private experience, the subject of this thread.

....but not the American government....right?

...mostly indifferent view.

I'm sure President Bush will be happy to hear that.

...except when they don't, and that's OK. Pretending otherwise is just so...Canadian.

....but not the American government....right?

Americans dont like their government EITHER. Why would you about foreigners not liking an institution that Americans themselves have a consistantly unfavorable opinion of?

...except when they don't, and that's OK. Pretending otherwise is just so...Canadian.

Whos pretending there isnt Anti-American Canadians? :lol: There IS... according to the poll I quoted theres millions of them. People just like you and AW except with the reverse perspective. Every nation is stuck with a few of you, but like I said, youre a statistical anomaly, and not worthy of much consideration.

Not according to the author's private experience, the subject of this thread.

Yeah. Never mind years of polling data! Lets base our opinion on one womans anecdotal experience. :lol:

I'm sure President Bush will be happy to hear that.

Americans dont like President Bush more than Canadians. This is a guy with an approval rating in the low twenties. I betcha he would actually poll HIGHER in Canada than he does in the US :lol:

Edited by dre

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Americans dont like theyre government EITHER. Why would wine about foreigners not liking an institution that Americans themselves have a consistantly unfavorable opinion of?

Because making such a distinction is disingenuous....Americans choose their own government, just as in Canada. However, Americans do not wish they could vote in Canadian elections.

Whos pretending there isnt Anti-American Canadians? :lol: There IS... according to the poll I quoted theres millions of them. People just like you and AW except with the reverse perspective. Every nation is stuck with a few of you, but like I said, youre a statistical anomaly, and not worthy of much consideration.

You missed the point entirely because you were too busy tooting the kumbaya horn about closest nations in history, when clearly there are pronounced differences and tensions.

Yeah. Never mind years of polling data! Lets base our opinion on one womans anecdotal experience. :lol:

Yet you agree with her main point concerning anti-Americanism. So much for polls, eh?

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....Americans dont like President Bush more than Canadians. This is a guy with an approval rating in the low twenties. I betcha he would actually poll HIGHER in Canada than he does in the US :lol:

Canadian politicians do not have poll numbers or approval ratings by Americans. Ever wonder why Americans don't stay up late watching Canadian election results?

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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Because making such a distinction is disingenuous....Americans choose their own government, just as in Canada. However, Americans do not wish they could vote in Canadian elections.

You missed the point entirely because you were too busy tooting the kumbaya horn about closest nations in history, when clearly there are pronounced differences and tensions.

Yet you agree with her main point concerning anti-Americanism. So much for polls, eh?

You missed the point entirely because you were too busy tooting the kumbaya horn about closest nations in history, when clearly there are pronounced differences and tensions.

Theres differences in tension between any two nations that share a border, but in the case of Canada and the US theyre small and unimportant.

80% of Canadians have a favorable view of Americans.

90% of Americans have a favorable view of Canadians.

Youre not going to get much better than that between ANY two countries in the world.

Like I said... you, AW, and other Canadians and Americans who hate on each other are an irrelevant statistical anomaly.

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Canadian politicians do not have poll numbers or approval ratings by Americans. Ever wonder why Americans don't stay up late watching Canadian election results?

Right... so back to your typical pathetic refrain about Canadians being obsessed with Americans. :rolleyes: This from an American thats spending his day off posting about Canadians. :lol:

Again... most Americans and Canadians arent obsessed and fixated on this relationship, in the same way fringe wierdos like you are. I know this seems terribly important and relevant to you, but it just ISNT.

Like I said, youre part of vocal but statistically unimportant fringe minority. :)

Edited by dre

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Theres differences in tension between any two nations that share a border, but in the case of Canada and the US theyre small and unimportant.

Sorry, but Ottawa and Washington disagree...you are conflating topics.

Like I said... you, AW, and other Canadians and Americans who hate on each other are an irrelevant statistical anomaly.

I don't hate Canadians at all...I hate their government...LOL! ;)

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Sorry, but Ottawa and Washington disagree...you are conflating topics.

I don't hate Canadians at all...I hate their government...LOL! ;)

Lots of Canadians dont like it either! Join the club.

Sorry, but Ottawa and Washington disagree...

No... they really dont. But even if they did thats besides the point. Normally people are not obsessed with that kind of thing. When I interact with Americans I dont go around blaming them for the actions of their government on a granular level. And this isnt a point of disagreement because Americans dont like their government any more than Canadians do.

Edited by dre

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Right... so back to your typical pathetic refrain about Canadians being obsessed with Americans. :rolleyes: This from an American thats spending his day off posting about Canadians. :lol:

Correct...you find my activity just as odd as I find an entire nation being so obsessed with America.

Why do you ask questions you already know the answers to?

To emphasize the obvious.

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Correct...you find my activity just as odd as I find an entire nation being so obsessed with America.

To emphasize the obvious.

I find an entire nation being so obsessed with America.

Yup. Thats almost the exact same kind of generalization, as you were just whining about some Canadians making about Americans. Your obsession with the obsession of other people like you that are obsessive, borders on hilarity.

I dont blame you for trying to steer the thread in this direction though because your "Canadians are intolerant and anti-american" narrative had clearly hit a wall there when it became evident not only that people like you are part of a stastically unimportant fringe minority of Canadians and Americans that are obsessed with each other, but that the entire premise of the thread was stupid from the outset. An excersize in intellectual dishonest where context was limited to one piece of anecdotal data.

To emphasize the obvious.

The obvious... you mean that youre part of a statistical small and unimportant, yet belligerent group of Americans and Canadians that have a wierd fixation with each others behavior?

I guess you have a point there.

Edited by dre

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Right... so back to your typical pathetic refrain about Canadians being obsessed with Americans. :rolleyes: This from an American thats spending his day off posting about Canadians. :lol:

Again... most Americans and Canadians arent obsessed and fixated on this relationship, in the same way fringe wierdos like you are. I know this seems terribly important and relevant to you, but it just ISNT.

Like I said, youre part of vocal but statistically unimportant fringe minority. :)

Fringe wierdo is a spectacular term...

It's why he/she is on ignore...

I don't deal with 'crazy" very well....

:lol::lol:

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Yup. Thats almost the exact same kind of generalization, as you were just whining about some Canadians making about Americans. Your obsession with the obsession of other people like you that are obsessive, borders on hilarity.

Yes...it's all good and part of the fun. Total agreement is 100% boring.

I dont blame you for trying to steer the thread in this direction though because your "Canadians are intolerant and anti-american" narrative had clearly hit a wall there when it became evident not only that people like you are part of a stastically unimportant fringe minority of Canadians and Americans that are obsessed with each other, but that the entire premise of the thread was stupid from the outset. An excersize in intellectual dishonest where context was limited to one piece of anecdotal data.

Look....my schtick here is well developed and entertaining...I don't need to kiss anyone's ass or travel to Canada for employment. I want to be the Ugly American that many others (not you of course...kiss kiss) love to hate.

The obvious... you mean that youre part of a statistical small and unimportant, yet belligerent group of Americans and Canadians that have a wierd fixation with each others behavior?

You didn't answer the question....why don't Americans stay up late to find out which party has prevailed in Canadian elections? Why would Canadians want to vote for the president of another nation....is this a "weird fixation"?

I guess you have a point there.

This piece ran in 2004, right after the American federal election. But it could have been written over 40 years ago.

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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Look....my schtick here is well developed and entertaining...I don't need to kiss anyone's ass or travel to Canada for employment. I want to be the Ugly American that many others (not you of course...kiss kiss) love to hate.
I want to be the Ugly American that many others (not you of course...kiss kiss) love to hate

But you arent even THAT. Your more like a clown peddling his bright orange tricycle off the same cliff of idiocy and failure over and over again. Is it entertaining? Yes... but not in the way you think.

You didn't answer the question....why don't Americans stay up late to find out which party has prevailed in Canadian elections? Why would Canadians want to vote for the president of a foreign nation....is this a "weird fixation"?

More generalizations. That question is predicated on an assertion that you havent shown to be true. Can you show me any evidence that shows thats any substancial ammount of Canadians that want to be allowed to vote in US elections? No you cant.

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But you arent even THAT. Your more like a clown peddling his bright orange tricycle off the same cliff of idiocy and failure over and over again. Is it entertaining? Yes... but not in the way you think.

More generalizations. That question is predicated on an assertion that you havent shown to be true. Can you show me any evidence that shows thats any substancial ammount of Canadians that want to be allowed to vote in US elections? No you cant.

I guess when you have a guy/girl who is an admitted a-hole,and wants to be an a-hole,and actually thinks it's "developed and entertaining" :blink::lol: ..

I guess all you can say,dre, is...

"We are laughing at you...NOT with you!"

:lol:

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I guess when you have a guy/girl who is an admitted a-hole,and wants to be an a-hole,and actually thinks it's "developed and entertaining" :blink::lol: ..

I guess all you can say,dre, is...

"We are laughing at you...NOT with you!"

:lol:

Im almost positive hes one of these guys here. One of a small handful of Americans with an unhealthy Canada fixation.

THE CANADIANS! They walk among us :ph34r: Pretty sure BC is the guy going "HOLY SHIT!" at the end of this clip...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpUM47y7uT4

Edited by dre

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Do you have any of your photos posted on a public domain? I'd love to see them.

Sure thing, I'll PM you with deets. :)

She's not referring to friends and family. Friends and family often have discussions/differing points of view. That's not what she's referring to. She's referring to contempt based solely on her nationality. Do you really not get that? She's referring to the treatment/attitudes she's been subjected to based on her nationality, nothing else.

Again, this is maybe a question of definition. I consider people I regularly dine or attend parties with or work alongside 'friends' in this context. I should be more specific and state, "friends, colleagues and other people I like to spend time with".

Canada had become her country of residence. That's a major part of the point she's making. And she chose to make it her country of residence based on the perceptions she had of Canada; perceptions based on how (and I'm not referring to all Canadians) Canadians portray Canada -- 'kinder, gentler, tolerant, caring, et al.' And she's saying that's not true; at least where Americans are concerned. That boils down to anti-Americanism. And that's her point.

And that's also my point. Neither you nor BC seemed surprised that negative attitudes toward the US exist. Nor frankly are most of the Canadians posting here. How did she somehow miss a cue that most other americans seem able to acknowledge? Did she think that, by pretending to move because of her disdain for Bush, she would more easily make friends here? Did she buy into the kind of two-dimensional rhetoric that lefties like Michael Moore propagate about Canada (doors unlocked, no racial tension, high functioning healthcare system)? Either way, she would have done herself a disservice by purchasing a caricature and thinking it was an idea.

Again, you're missing the point. Her move was based on Canada's reputation; a reputation perpetuated by Canada/Canadians. 'Canada is so tolerant. Canada welcomes everyone with open arms. Canada defines itself by multi-culturalism. Toronto is the most culturally diverse city in the world. Canadians are loved the world over because they are so lovable. Just sport the Maple Leaf and feel the love.'

If this is true, then she did not understand canadian tolerance. We are caught up in many polarized internal conflicts, around qu├ębec sovereignty, immigration/multiculturalism, same sex rights, etc. What makes the country 'tolerant' is not that everyone respects others, it's the practice of putting pragmatic ends before ideology. For example, many people were openly opposed to gays and lesbians getting married, but they chose not to make it a ballot issue because they knew their beliefs would not be able to overwhelm the resident philosophy of 'live and let live'.

First of all, you don't live in the States. She moved to Canada. And her move was based on the perception of Canada that has been thrown out there and perpetuated. If you don't get that, you don't understand the purpose/point of her OP at all. You're trying to compare yourself to her and there is no comparison.

But she is still only one person. The data presented elsewhere in this thread suggests that, despite the bickering and chest pumping, we actually like and respect one other.

I've traveled too. I know there are tensions between other nations. I know that's not unique to Canada and the U.S. Trust me. But CANADA is the nation that defines itself by it's tolerance, understanding, kindness, acceptance, multi-culturalism. No other nation does that. Canada does. And the author of the OP is saying it's a myth. That there's a strong anti-American sentiment in Canada that belies the perceptions.

I'd like the opportunity to provide her and any other americans with the clarification listed above. 'Kinder, gentler', 'pluralism', etc. exist but they are something different than she wanted to believe.

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But you arent even THAT. Your more like a clown peddling his bright orange tricycle off the same cliff of idiocy and failure over and over again. Is it entertaining? Yes... but not in the way you think.

That's fine by me...those who dismiss my antics at the superficial level do not wish to engage their own doubts. As stated many times, even if I were to disappear today, the bright orange American tricycle would still capture your attention. I don't know why that is, but other members have explained that it is a necessary thing for Canada...I'm not supposed to understand why.

More generalizations. That question is predicated on an assertion that you havent shown to be true. Can you show me any evidence that shows thats any substancial ammount of Canadians that want to be allowed to vote in US elections? No you cant.

Yes I can...read this and weep:

Fifteen per cent of Canadians would give up their ballot in Canada's next federal election to vote in the U.S. election, a new poll co-sponsored by the CBC has found.

The poll, done by the Canadian polling company Environics Research on behalf of the Simons Foundation, the CBC, the Environics Institute, the Globe and Mail and Le Devoir, asked 2,001 Canadians over the age of 15 questions about how they perceive their role, and Canada's role, in the world.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/02/01/poll-cbc.html

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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I guess when you have a guy/girl who is an admitted a-hole,and wants to be an a-hole,and actually thinks it's "developed and entertaining" :blink::lol: ..

I guess all you can say,dre, is...

"We are laughing at you...NOT with you!"

This one give great "ignore".

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