Jump to content
Political Discussion Forums

Union Busting in Wisconsin


Jonsa

Recommended Posts

I have never met the man. He may have some redeeming qualities but if he does he certainly doesn't show them here. Just because he shows up for work and is a company man does not, in and of itself, make him a decent person.

It makes him better than the person who would prevent such employment for purely ideological reasons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 2.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Nice. You should post some of the video and pictures of the Walker is Hitler and Walker is a Nazi signs! Or does is just matter when it's supposidly the Tea Party? :rolleyes:

Where's the media? *crickets*

I know your position is always "Bad if Liberals do it, Great if tea partiers do it" but in the end their were 40,000 people out protesting today. Tomorrow I guess we will see how many tea partiers come in for a "counter protest" but right now you have something like 5000 students who are sleeping in the Legislature who believe in something and these people aren't going to go away.

15000-20000 signatures will recall 8 republican senators and these people are well on their way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know your position is always "Bad if Liberals do it, Great if tea partiers do it" but in the end their were 40,000 people out protesting today. Tomorrow I guess we will see how many tea partiers come in for a "counter protest" but right now you have something like 5000 students who are sleeping in the Legislature who believe in something and these people aren't going to go away.

15000-20000 signatures will recall 8 republican senators and these people are well on their way.

Nobody's being recalled. It's great that people want to protest. It's their right. But the people spoke in November. This bill will be passed, and then people can voice their displeasure in a couple more years in the next gubernatorial election.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nobody's being recalled. It's great that people want to protest. It's their right. But the people spoke in November. This bill will be passed, and then people can voice their displeasure in a couple more years in the next gubernatorial election.

Like I said from what I am hearing there is going to be both Republicans and Dems recalled in the next 60 days if the fight keeps going. It might die out. A Dem recall group raised 25,000 dollars today for the Wisconsin State Senate Democratic committee. Seems like a lot of money to throw at nothing to me.

Looks pretty grassroots too. Sometimes that stuff never takes off and sometimes it is impossible to stop. Time will tell.

http://recallalbertadarling.org/

These guys are exempt but they are still there fighting. I don't know maybe Republicans will roll back union rights. Although maybe we will have 1970 on our hands and Walker will be the new Nixon. He will see the biggest resurgence of the union movement in 30 years. We will see maybe he will be Reagan and he will bust them.

Edited by punked
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have never met the man. He may have some redeeming qualities but if he does he certainly doesn't show them here. Just because he shows up for work and is a company man does not, in and of itself, make him a decent person.

He may or may not be a decent person. You don't know. And yet based on one fact: that he chose to go to work, you decide to hate him. If there's anyone needing an attitude adjustment, you'll find him in the mirror.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He may or may not be a decent person. You don't know. And yet based on one fact: that he chose to go to work, you decide to hate him. If there's anyone needing an attitude adjustment, you'll find him in the mirror.

This coming from a supporter of legislated union busting...RTW...

The mirror is staring you in the face,as well...

Edited by Jack Weber
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Never mind that unions were instrumental in the creation of the middle class.

Never mind that unions were instrumental in creating workplace safety laws, and anti child labour laws, and a whole host of other labour laws designed to protect workers.

Never mind that the the employers agree to union contracts. If they pay a smaller percentage for health coverage and pension contributions that other workers in the private sector, its the employers that did that. '

Never mind that the teachers and firefighters, road maintenance works, jail guards, etc. are working stiffs with families who deliver necessary services to the rest of their communities

Never mind that they pay taxes just like everyone else does (except the rich).

Nope, they are just lazy blood suckers who have caused financial havoc and are to blame for the budget crisis facing governments throught the US.

Spot on!!!

And the free marketeers want to destroy this under the guise of "competativeness","productivity",and,"freedom"...

Gotta love the aparatchiks of the likes of organizations like the NAM,and their race to the bottom....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Never mind that unions were instrumental in the creation of the middle class.

Never mind that unions were instrumental in creating workplace safety laws, and anti child labour laws, and a whole host of other labour laws designed to protect workers.

Never mind that the the employers agree to union contracts. If they pay a smaller percentage for health coverage and pension contributions that other workers in the private sector, its the employers that did that. '

Never mind that the teachers and firefighters, road maintenance works, jail guards, etc. are working stiffs with families who deliver necessary services to the rest of their communities

Never mind that they pay taxes just like everyone else does (except the rich).

Nope, they are just lazy blood suckers who have caused financial havoc and are to blame for the budget crisis facing governments throught the US.

Yes, union's did a great job of achieving a great number of things. Private sector unions. Public sector employees pay taxes, but their entire salary is tax money paid by other people. So they don't really produce anything, or add anything new to the government treasury. They just take unsustainable pensions and benefits, at the expense of Joe and Jane 6-pack. Who see their property taxes and state income taxes go up, and up, and up to cover the cost of these economic reality sheltered people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spot on!!!

And the free marketeers want to destroy this under the guise of "competativeness","productivity",and,"freedom"...

Gotta love the aparatchiks of the likes of organizations like the NAM,and their race to the bottom....

Nobody wants to destroy anything. These public sector freeloaders are simply being asked to pay half of what everyone else already pays for their pension and benefits. And they can still retain collective bargaining rights for their salaries. These people are the last vestige of the inflexible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, union's did a great job of achieving a great number of things. Private sector unions. Public sector employees pay taxes, but their entire salary is tax money paid by other people. So they don't really produce anything, or add anything new to the government treasury. They just take unsustainable pensions and benefits, at the expense of Joe and Jane 6-pack. Who see their property taxes and state income taxes go up, and up, and up to cover the cost of these economic reality sheltered people.

Remind me about that 300 million dollar tax cut to corporations the Governor of WI handed out last year and how come the CBO of WI has said his tax cut is what caused the budget short fall again Shady. Remind me about how he caused a problem in order to bust unions. Literally he Ginned up his own problem to take a fight to unions, he manufactured a budget problem after being handed a 250 million dollar SURPLUS.

Of course it is because he has rocks for brains.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nobody wants to destroy anything. These public sector freeloaders are simply being asked to pay half of what everyone else already pays for their pension and benefits. And they can still retain collective bargaining rights for their salaries. These people are the last vestige of the inflexible.

NO THEY CAN NOT RETAIN COLLECTIVE BARGAINING RIGHTS ON ANYTHING! You are a liar. Their salaries are going to be tied to the inflation index and they can only have salaries which meet the price of inflation but will probably get less. You are lying right now Shady and I do not think it proper to do that.

Edited by punked
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nobody wants to destroy anything. These public sector freeloaders are simply being asked to pay half of what everyone else already pays for their pension and benefits. And they can still retain collective bargaining rights for their salaries. These people are the last vestige of the inflexible.

In this case,I'm not talking about pubic sector unions...

Are you telling me the NAM driven RTW legislation in the US is NOT about destroying individual union locals from the inside out?

That it's not legislated union busting under the guise of personal freedom?

And by the way,as I understand it,part of the proposed provisions in Wisconsin are RTWesque...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This coming from a supporter of legislated union busting...RTW...

I do generally oppose unions but I do not hate union members or people who support unions and do not wish them harm or ill just for that. There is a clear distinction between holding a political view and holding a personal antipathy towards individuals who hold that view.

Edited by Bonam
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Remind me about that 300 million dollar tax cut to corporations the Governor of WI handed out last year and how come the CBO of WI has said his tax cut is what caused the budget short fall again Shady. Remind me about how he caused a problem in order to bust unions. Literally he Ginned up his own problem to take a fight to unions, he manufactured a budget problem after being handed a 250 million dollar SURPLUS.

Of course it is because he has rocks for brains.

Yes, a 300 million dollar tax cut is the reason for a 2.7 billion dollar deficit. :rolleyes:

And a governor who took office 45 days ago is somehow responsible for a budget last year. :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In this case,I'm not talking about pubic sector unions...

Are you telling me the NAM driven RTW legislation in the US is NOT about destroying individual union locals from the inside out?

That it's not legislated union busting under the guise of personal freedom?

And by the way,as I understand it,part of the proposed provisions in Wisconsin are RTWesque...

Jack don't listen to Shady he is straight up lying about what is in the bill. The Bill would take all Negotiating rights away from unions. They would actually be dictated to what they pay and why they pay it so give it two years any their pensions will be phased out as well as their health care.

Their salary will be allowed to be talked about but any raise will capped at the Inflation index, which means that is the top that they can get. That means that everytime they get less then inflation they will actually becoming poorer.

Every year the Union which has no rights to Negotiate on behave of workers will have to have a vote to re-certify and any member can stop paying dues at anytime they wish.

THAT IS WHAT IS IN THIS BILL. Not what Shady says. He is lying period.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do generally oppose unions but I do not hate union members or people who support unions and do not wish them harm or ill just for that. There is a clear distinction between holding a political view and holding a personal antipathy towards individuals who hold that view.

BS...

You support legislated union busting through RTW provisions.

You want the entire labour movement destroyed from the inside out,which is the purpose of RTW!

You've admitted this.

I assume because the Labour Movement is the antithesis of your free market ethos?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jack don't listen to Shady he is straight up lying about what is in the bill. The Bill would take all Negotiating rights away from unions. They would actually be dictated to what they pay and why they pay it so give it two years any their pensions will be phased out as well as their health care.

Their salary will be allowed to be talked about but any raise will capped at the Inflation index, which means that is the top that they can get. That means that everytime they get less then inflation they will actually becoming poorer.

Every year the Union which has no rights to Negotiate on behave of workers will have to have a vote to re-certify and any member can stop paying dues at anytime they wish.

THAT IS WHAT IS IN THIS BILL. Not what Shady says. He is lying period.

I am fully aware of The Professor and his duplicitous ways...

Typical pro business ,free marketeer...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, a 300 million dollar tax cut is the reason for a 2.7 billion dollar deficit. :rolleyes:

And a governor who took office 45 days ago is somehow responsible for a budget last year. :rolleyes:

It is like you also have rocks for brains like this Governor who couldn't even get out of collage with a degree. Here let me spell it out for you.

In its Jan. 31 memo to legislators on the condition of the state's budget, the Fiscal Bureau determined that the state will end the year with a balance of $121.4 million.

To the extent that there is an imbalance -- Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit -- it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January.

Here is the report you wont read because you don't know anything and all you do is repeat talking points with out anything to back it up. There is not budget short fall there is a governor who has rocks for brains spending out of control.

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011_01_31Vos&Darling.pdf

Remember that the Dems in WI closed a 6 billion dollar budget gap with out destroying workers rights but we also have to remember they aren't Republicans and can actually count.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well this whole issue is about public sector unions.

Please decipher your gibberish for me. :blink:

Actually,it has become a pro/anti union thread thanks to Yukon Jack...

Look up "Right to Work"...(What a misnomer) And who was originally,and continues to be the driving force behind this type of legislation...

And then ask yourself the simple question....

Does this organization have individual worker rights at heart,or,is it just a front to destroy worker rights in the workplace?

And then ask yourself if this organization is essentially a union by another name that wants collective legislative rights for it's "members",but finds it abhorrent for others?

Edited by Jack Weber
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I assume because the Labour Movement is the antithesis of your free market ethos?

Absolutely not. I support a worker's right to unionize. But private sector unions are much different than public sector unions. Private sector unions produce their own wealth. They actually have to deal with economic realities. And those realities are directly related to their compensation and benefits. Public sector unions seek to be completely sheltered from such realities. And their wish to remain sheltered directly effects those in the private sector who's taxes pay their salaries, pensions and benefits. It's Joe and Jane 6-pack that see their property taxes raised every year. And it's Joe and Jane 6-pack that see their state income tax raised every year. To pay for public employee compensation, and expecially pension and benefits that are unsustainable. All because these public pork chops refuse in some cases to even pay a dime for their excellent health benefits and pension benefits.

FACT: Wisconsin public employees are being asked to pay HALF of what everyone else pays for their health and pension benefits. You know who makes up the other half? Joe and Jane 6-pack, and everyone else in the private sector through their taxes. Does that sound fair? Nope.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Absolutely not. I support a worker's right to unionize. But private sector unions are much different than public sector unions. Private sector unions produce their own wealth. They actually have to deal with economic realities. And those realities are directly related to their compensation and benefits. Public sector unions seek to be completely sheltered from such realities. And their wish to remain sheltered directly effects those in the private sector who's taxes pay their salaries, pensions and benefits. It's Joe and Jane 6-pack that see their property taxes raised every year. And it's Joe and Jane 6-pack that see their state income tax raised every year. To pay for public employee compensation, and expecially pension and benefits that are unsustainable. All because these public pork chops refuse in some cases to even pay a dime for their excellent health benefits and pension benefits.

FACT: Wisconsin public employees are being asked to pay HALF of what everyone else pays for their health and pension benefits. You know who makes up the other half? Joe and Jane 6-pack, and everyone else in the private sector through their taxes. Does that sound fair? Nope.

FACT: this about the right to collective bargaining and if it was about anything else you wouldn't have protests you are seeing happen right now. If you want to bargain with the union to get them to pay half of health insurance, and pension that would be fine the Senate would vote and the Dems would lose. That is not what this about. Stop trying to frame as anything different.

Edited by punked
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Absolutely not. I support a worker's right to unionize. But private sector unions are much different than public sector unions. Private sector unions produce their own wealth. They actually have to deal with economic realities. And those realities are directly related to their compensation and benefits. Public sector unions seek to be completely sheltered from such realities. And their wish to remain sheltered directly effects those in the private sector who's taxes pay their salaries, pensions and benefits. It's Joe and Jane 6-pack that see their property taxes raised every year. And it's Joe and Jane 6-pack that see their state income tax raised every year. To pay for public employee compensation, and expecially pension and benefits that are unsustainable. All because these public pork chops refuse in some cases to even pay a dime for their excellent health benefits and pension benefits.

FACT: Wisconsin public employees are being asked to pay HALF of what everyone else pays for their health and pension benefits. You know who makes up the other half? Joe and Jane 6-pack, and everyone else in the private sector through their taxes. Does that sound fair? Nope.

As I understand it,they've had demanded of them to give up negotiating rights AND allow for "Open Shop" provisions...

Essentially,union busting...

Am I incorrect in this?

Because,if I'm right,then they have every right to tell the people demanding this to shove it...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Tell a friend

    Love Political Discussion Forums? Tell a friend!
×
×
  • Create New...