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Ron Paul in 2012


CitizenX

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Why measure inflation specifically in gold price? What does the price of gold have to do with inflation? What % of spending does gold comprise for an average American consumer? You may as well measure inflation by looking at how many kB of computer memory you can purchase for a dollar:

http://www.kurzweilai.net/images/chart07.jpg

What do you know, the dollar has deflated greatly, its purchasing power has increased ten billion fold in the last 65 years!

I'd say the 1000000000000% change there outweighs the 92% change shown in your graph :)

Historically gold has been use as money.

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Why measure inflation specifically in gold price? What does the price of gold have to do with inflation? What % of spending does gold comprise for an average American consumer? You may as well measure inflation by looking at how many kB of computer memory you can purchase for a dollar:

http://www.kurzweilai.net/images/chart07.jpg

What do you know, the dollar has deflated greatly, its purchasing power has increased ten billion fold in the last 65 years!

I'd say the 1000000000000% change there outweighs the 92% change shown in your graph :)

The graph I posted is based on a pricing index not gold.

I'd say the 1000000000000% change there outweighs the 92% change shown in your graph

No, not even close. My graph showed purchase power. Your example showed... well... nothing.

Edited by dre
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Are you a Krugman fan cause you sound just like him. Ron Paul predicted and warned us about the housing bubble. Also, the governments fudges the numbers when it comes to the inflation rate.

People were warning about the housing bubble for a few years before 2008. He's not really unique in this regard.

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Yah the US has tripled its monetary base (printed money) in the last 3 years with NO inflation at all. Know why? Because Ron Paul doesn't understand anything and you clearly ignore facts right in front of your eyes. His model is broken.

Its not so much the model is broken. The theory that increasing the money supply faster than the economy causes inflation is uncontraversial... thats essentially the definition of inflation. Virtually all economists share it to one degree or another. But first of all inflation is a lagging indicator. It doesnt happen immediately. Further, whats been keeping the lid on inflation is the shitty economy, and high jobless rate, and the way that we measure it.

But you should go ahead and show us the "model" that suggests purchasing power isnt tied to the economy and can be simply printed. If you can do that, you would revolutionize the world, because nobody would have to work anymore.

Edited by dre
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Its not so much the model is broken. The theory that increasing the money supply faster than the economy causes inflation is uncontraversial... thats essentially the definition of inflation. Virtually all economists share it to one degree or another. But first of all inflation is a lagging indicator. It doesnt happen immediately. Further, whats been keeping the lid on inflation is the shitty economy, and high jobless rate, and the way that we measure it.

But you should go ahead and show us the "model" that suggests purchasing power isnt tied to the economy and can be simply printed. If you can do that, you would revolutionize the world, because nobody would have to work anymore.

So what you are saying is when the economy is depressed printing money wont lead to inflation? Wow someone is really into Alan Keyes or did you not know that is part of that model and not part of Ron Paul's at all? Seriously what you describe is a classic liquidity trap so you agree Ron Paul is wrong.

Edited by punked
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Why measure inflation specifically in gold price? What does the price of gold have to do with inflation? What % of spending does gold comprise for an average American consumer? You may as well measure inflation by looking at how many kB of computer memory you can purchase for a dollar:

http://www.kurzweilai.net/images/chart07.jpg

What do you know, the dollar has deflated greatly, its purchasing power has increased ten billion fold in the last 65 years!

I'd say the 1000000000000% change there outweighs the 92% change shown in your graph :)

It's not so much of an inflation due to rising prices, it is inflation due to a devalued and continually devaluing the dollar. You need more of the same dollars to buy an item.

But if you want to see real inflation compare food prices of now compared to 2-5 years ago and see the trend. Food prices have essentially doubled in the past decade.

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It's not so much of an inflation due to rising prices, it is inflation due to a devalued and continually devaluing the dollar. You need more of the same dollars to buy an item.

But if you want to see real inflation compare food prices of now compared to 2-5 years ago and see the trend. Food prices have essentially doubled in the past decade.

No sorry that isn't how inflation works. You don't get to cite the things that have risen and ignore the things that have fallen. you are wrong. Here is a whole write up on why you are wrong.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/18/inflation-conspiracy-theories/

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It's not so much of an inflation due to rising prices, it is inflation due to a devalued and continually devaluing the dollar. You need more of the same dollars to buy an item.

But if you want to see real inflation compare food prices of now compared to 2-5 years ago and see the trend. Food prices have essentially doubled in the past decade.

But I think that Chiquita Bananas are going to get cheaper as people avoid the suddenly political banana.

Anyway, I'm starting to like Ron Paul. Am I wrong?

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Some on the left love Ron Paul, because if he were nominated it would mean a sure Obama victory.

And some people are believers: Banks Got Bailed Out … We Got Sold Out

Forget what you’ve been taught … the mainstream Democrats and mainstream Republicans are virtually identical on all core matters. Obama, Gingrich, Romney and the whole sorry lot are for more war, for further crackdowns on our Constitutional liberties, and for giving the Federal Reserve all of the unchecked power that it wants.

Don’t fall for the old divide-and-conquer trick.

Whatever you may think of Ron Paul, he has consistently championed three core American for three decades. Paul has consistently argued for the following three positions which Americans overwhelmingly favor:

Stop the never-ending, open-ended, goalpost-moving wars

Restore our liberties, and stop the march towards martial law, indefinite detention idiocy, and the crack down on the Internet

Rein in or abolish the Federal Reserve

I'm cheering for Ron Paul because I want to see if he becomes emasculated or not.

Edited by msj
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Some on the left love Ron Paul, because if he were nominated it would mean a sure Obama victory.

That is not true, there are many democrats that would vote for Paul over Obama. Have you ever heard of blue republicans, democrats switching to the republican party to vote for Ron Paul because they like his message.

Aren't most democrats against wars, against giving special privileges to corporations, pro civil liberties?

I don't understand people, Ron Paul is clearly the best candidate for president. Why wouldn't people want an honest president, why are people so turned on by people that are full shit.

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That is not true, there are many democrats that would vote for Paul over Obama. Have you ever heard of blue republicans, democrats switching to the republican party to vote for Ron Paul because they like his message.

Aren't most democrats against wars, against giving special privileges to corporations, pro civil liberties?

I don't understand people, Ron Paul is clearly the best candidate for president. Why wouldn't people want an honest president, why are people so turned on by people that are full shit.

He would be the most extreme presidential candidate the US has seen in decades - I can't say how long. There are many forces that would prevent him from making his promised cuts. But if he succeeded, there would be a giant shock in the U.S. economy and given the disunity that exists in politics, that would drive the country apart to a level not seen in a long time.

The losers would be the poorest citizens, and they would have few options. There would be unrest, and I think political violence and crimes would rise noticeably. The winners would be those who pay the most taxes.

Those winners have already shown that they aren't interested in investing in the United States. They have already been benefiting from globalized trade, and would continue to do. This would be a more extreme version of the trickle-down economics that hasn't resulted in real gains to the lowest earners. Why would tilting the system to benefit the wealthy even more help the lowest earners when it hasn't up until now ?

The answer is that it doesn't matter. Paul isn't interested in pragmatic solutions, but in a philosophically pure libertarian approach that is self-justifying. If he implements it, then it is a success and all the problems that the poor face are their own fault. The model is seen as perfect, and those who can't fit in have themselves to blame.

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Right now the US has a president that is the most socialist in their history and as extremist as has ever been. He has driven the country apart into two extremes not seen since the sixties. All you know about Paul or any of them is what the MSM and leftwingers want to to know about any of the candidates. Same thing with Obama.

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No sorry that isn't how inflation works. You don't get to cite the things that have risen and ignore the things that have fallen. you are wrong. Here is a whole write up on why you are wrong.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/18/inflation-conspiracy-theories/

I've been involved in the grocery business in some capacity for the last 2 decades. I can tell you with 100% certainty that prices for food has indeed close to doubled in the last decade. And maybe you can tell my wallet that there is no inflation.

Sure there is more to inflation than just rising prices, but that is the first thing we see as buyers of goods. But the trend overall is, wages stagnating or declining as everything else is costing more. Food is more expensive, cars are more expensive, the only sector that seems to have gone down is in consumer electronics. But I seriously doubt that alone will drive inflation down.

Ask your wallet if it is a conspiracy.

But from the article you posted the quote of

Sorry, folks, but there’s no grand conspiracy to hide inflation.

Meaning, inflation is happening, it's just not so hidden.

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I've been involved in the grocery business in some capacity for the last 2 decades. I can tell you with 100% certainty that prices for food has indeed close to doubled in the last decade. And maybe you can tell my wallet that there is no inflation.

Sure there is more to inflation than just rising prices, but that is the first thing we see as buyers of goods. But the trend overall is, wages stagnating or declining as everything else is costing more. Food is more expensive, cars are more expensive, the only sector that seems to have gone down is in consumer electronics. But I seriously doubt that alone will drive inflation down.

Ask your wallet if it is a conspiracy.

But from the article you posted the quote of

Meaning, inflation is happening, it's just not so hidden.

That isn't the point inflation isn't a measurement of food prices. It is a measurement of the dollar against all things which cost money. Food prices can go up but gas prices go down and you have 0 inflation. That is the point and the fact is over the last three years there has been ALOT and I mean ALOT of American money printed with NO INFLATION. That is the point, Ron Paul is dead wrong.

Edited by punked
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Right now the US has a president that is the most socialist in their history and as extremist as has ever been. He has driven the country apart into two extremes not seen since the sixties. All you know about Paul or any of them is what the MSM and leftwingers want to to know about any of the candidates. Same thing with Obama.

Wow you really hate American history. Obama is more Socialist then FDR the man who brought in Medicare? How about FDR the man who created Social Security, as well as the back to work project? Heck he isn't even as Socialist as Eisenhower the man who built the high system. You live in a fantasy land my friend and belong with Ron Paul.

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That isn't the point inflation isn't a measurement of food prices. It is a measurement of the dollar against all things which cost money. Food prices can go up but gas prices go down and you have 0 inflation. That is the point and the fact is over the last three years there has been ALOT and I mean ALOT of American money printed with NO INFLATION. That is the point, Ron Paul is dead wrong.

Gas prices going down? That's a knee slapper right there. So maybe you can tell me where there was no inflation or deflation overall? Even your article Krugman admits there is inflation, although he says the amount is negligible, but it is still inflation.

The thing you might not get is, that if food prices rise, the costs of everything else that is involved to get food to your table have risen as well. Farming costs are rising, production costs rising, transportation costs rising, and wages are reduced. Inspection costs rising, compliance costs rising, equipment purchasing/maintenance costs are rising. The cost of the whole grocery business/industry has risen which is reflected in what you pay in the store. If you pay more at the store, it's because the whole pyramid that supports the grocery store is seeing rising costs of doing business.

Your mind would be kind of blown away by how much money is spent getting that item to the shelf you grab off your local store shelf. Typically the margin of profit in any grocery store is under 5%. Typically it's no more than 2% at the best of times. Again this is from personal and professional experience with the grocery business over the past two decades.

Deflation may have happened in sectors that are luxury items while staple items, (food, clothing, transportation) have all risen. What do you think people are going to spend money on? And if they don't spend money in those sectors that encounter deflation, all while constantly paying more and more for the necessities, then the situation is that inflation is happening.

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Gas prices going down? That's a knee slapper right there. So maybe you can tell me where there was no inflation or deflation overall? Even your article Krugman admits there is inflation, although he says the amount is negligible, but it is still inflation.

The thing you might not get is, that if food prices rise, the costs of everything else that is involved to get food to your table have risen as well. Farming costs are rising, production costs rising, transportation costs rising, and wages are reduced. Inspection costs rising, compliance costs rising, equipment purchasing/maintenance costs are rising. The cost of the whole grocery business/industry has risen which is reflected in what you pay in the store. If you pay more at the store, it's because the whole pyramid that supports the grocery store is seeing rising costs of doing business.

Your mind would be kind of blown away by how much money is spent getting that item to the shelf you grab off your local store shelf. Typically the margin of profit in any grocery store is under 5%. Typically it's no more than 2% at the best of times. Again this is from personal and professional experience with the grocery business over the past two decades.

Deflation may have happened in sectors that are luxury items while staple items, (food, clothing, transportation) have all risen. What do you think people are going to spend money on? And if they don't spend money in those sectors that encounter deflation, all while constantly paying more and more for the necessities, then the situation is that inflation is happening.

Again I am pointing out inflation isn't a number you get to cherry pick. The numbers are there for you to read, you don't like them so you choose to cherry pick what you want. Fact is there is no large inflation (as Kurgamn points out if you read his numbers you would see that) with the money printing deal with it already.

As for your claim that deflation has only happened in sectors for the rich you are dead wrong yet again.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/14/smoothed-inflation/#

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Wow you really hate American history. Obama is more Socialist then FDR the man who brought in Medicare? How about FDR the man who created Social Security, as well as the back to work project? Heck he isn't even as Socialist as Eisenhower the man who built the high system. You live in a fantasy land my friend and belong with Ron Paul.

1) No one has spent as much as Obama.

2) No one has racked up as much debt as Obama.

3) No one has started the medicare system that Obama rammed through.

High system? Do you mean highway system? That is not socialist, please try again.

Yes FDR was socialist, but he's been spent under the table by the big O. Putting him way out on the left wing with FDR is a good start, however.

Edited by sharkman
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Again I am pointing out inflation isn't a number you get to cherry pick. The numbers are there for you to read, you don't like them so you choose to cherry pick what you want. Fact is there is no large inflation (as Kurgamn points out if you read his numbers you would see that) with the money printing deal with it already.

The numbers I am giving are not cherry picking, I am telling you exactly what I have observed in over 20 years experience in the grocery business. And I still do not think you understand the scope of what I have explained that contributes to rising prices of goods (aka inflation). The cost of doing business in the grocery industry has risen drastically over the past decade. Trucks cost more, fuel costs more, industrial electronic equipment costs more. Every sector of the grocery industry has experiences higher operating costs. The only thing that may have done down is the wage that people make. And when people don't make as much money as they used to they stop purchasing luxury items just so they can eat.

Houses cost more, cars cost more, gas costs more, food costs more.

As for your claim that deflation has only happened in sectors for the rich you are dead wrong yet again.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/14/smoothed-inflation/#

I did not say rich people, I said luxury items. Maybe you need to understand what luxury items are. People don't need luxury items like , a TV for example. but everyone needs to eat. The places where people spend the most money on (like food) the prices have gone up up up. Not just goods but services have gone up as well.

And from your article Krugman writes :

So here’s three- and four-year average inflation (blue and red respectively), as measured using the headline CPI. (Want to bet that even with me putting this here, I’ll have commenters insisting that the numbers don’t include food and energy?) And remember, ever since the Fed began expanding the monetary base in 2008, the inflationistas have been screaming that hyperinflation was just around the corner.

Inflation takes into account rising prices, lower wages and a devalued currency (less buying power). I personally think Krugman is out to lunch.

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