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For or against long gun registry?


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I think we should have the freedom to own a firearm no questions asked, and if someone decides to use it with criminal intentions should then be considered a criminal and charged like one.
Uh, how do you define "firearm"? Do you believe that everyone in the world should have the right to own a RPG or a nuclear device too?

Alberta Ford, where do you draw the line? Would you like a world in which everyone owned a nuclear bomb?

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For the record, here's my view on gun control. I happen to think that we Canadians should follow our current PM's favourite Commonwealth member: Australia.

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Edited by August1991
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Okay, good to know. Nice clip, never seen that movie though. For some reason I'd never use that joke on another dude, perhaps I just don't have the cajones . Maybe I should quit while I'm behind...

Edited by sharkman
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The whole argument regarding whether killers use guns or not is rather pointless. Of course they do.

The real question is' will they stop killing if long guns must be registered? Better still, have they stopped killing since the long gun registry has come into effect?

It is pretty cleat that the answer in both cases is a resounding NO to both!

Those in favour of the Registry are likely thinking that the Registry is some sort of step toward total gun prohibition. It isn't.

Since it is not a step toward gun prohibition and it is not (and can never be) effective as a means of preventing killings, it is rather useless.

So, the Long Gun Registry is an expensive and useless system.

Of course it should be abolished.

The system would be better used to register children and it could be used to verify the legitimacy of the guardian whenever any child is enrolled in any school or is treated for any health issue. Children do actually get abducted and a registry system could be actually useful.

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I found a link to the RCMP's registry report that was released to the MPs awhile back. All 148 pgs for your reading pleasure:

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/pubs/fire-feu-eval/eval-eng.pdf

An interesting paragraph in there under the first of the "Findings" says,

The program is often misperceived by the media and the public as being solely a registry. The administration of this national public safety program might better be compared with a provincial Motor Vehicles Branch, which is also involved in safety training, licensing and registration and is an important resource to law enforcement, albeit in a limited nature, through license revocations. An added difference is the concern for the misuse of firearms, which impacts on public safety and hence the requirement for regulation

The emphasis I added there points to why the RCMP believed the "registry" was effective. It wasn't just about knowing who had guns, but it was akin to having a motor vehicle license. And really... why shouldn't it be? If you're caught misusing firearms or a condition arises (mental illness) where you put yourself and others at risk by handling firearms, they should have the information available to them to revoke your "license."

On the effectiveness of the registry and how it was being used:

Police who use CFRO are able to get the information that they require to support their investigations. Individuals who demonstrate they are a safety risk to the public can be linked with the database of registered firearms owners, and firearms can be removed from the scenario. Police report that the Firearms Program and associated processing sites (Miramichi and CFO offices) have reduced the administrative burden placed on them (under the former firearms control legislation, they were responsible for licence screening).

A survey of CFRO users showed that 81% of trained police officers supported the statement, “In my experience, CFRO query results have proven beneficial during major operations.” So beneficial, in fact, that RCMP dispatchers, RCMP Operational Communications Centres, Quebec Police agencies, Halifax Regional Police, Halton Regional Police, Canadian Military Police, OPP, Peel Regional Police, Toronto Police Service, West Vancouver Police Department and the Tsuu Tina Police Service have re-designed their Records Management Systems to auto-query CFRO whenever a police officer queries CPIC. Additionally, 513 RCMP detachments and federal units, 579 Canadian municipal police agencies and 88 OPP locations query CFRO yearly.

Edited by cybercoma
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didn't he steal the rifle used in the killing?

Even if he did, he legally would have had to register it before the massacre. Chretien wouldn't have it any other way.

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Even if he did, he legally would have had to register it before the massacre. Chretien wouldn't have it any other way.

I depends on what kind of rifle it was. The only guns that had to be seperately registered before the long-gun registry (1995) were hand guns and some semi-restricted military weapons. I recall seeing a picture of the gun once, if my memory is correct it looked like an assault rifle rather than a hunting rifle, but it might have just been one of those knock-off imitations. For the record I don't think anyone needs to own assault rifles or those big clips that carry 30 or 50 rounds. There's just no legitimate use for these outside of the military.

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The Liberals enacted their Gun Registry Bill, which did not add a single day's sentence to any monkeyshine who actually USED a gun in a commission of a crime!

Yet for an honest citizen to fail to register meant a sentence more harsh than that typically given to said monkeyshine robbing a variety store with a handgun.

To me, this spoke volumes about the real aims of the gun registry and the actual character and values of those supporting it.

In all these years I have heard NOTHING from the gun registry supporters about increasing the punishment for illegal use of a firearm!

There must be something wrong with their heads! A justice system with no true deterrence cannot possibly work. A system that targets the innocent instead of the guilty will never command respect.

In all these years I have heard NOTHING from the gun registry supporters about increasing the punishment for illegal use of a firearm!

what you are supposing in the quote is that the punishment needs to be increased--- which is not so. What needs to be increased is the usage of the present day penalties that the idiot judges of our country NEVER impose. Time after time we read about armed robbers, convicted & sentences to a year when in actual fact the max sentence possible is 10 years and no judges use the maximum.

Edited by Tilter
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In all the years I've listened to this debate over the registry I've never once heard opponents clearly state the max/min years in the slammer a person should get for the crime of being insane.

Any suggestions?

None--- he/she should be placed in an institute for the criminally insane for life, not life with possible release but for life.

He should also have the company of all paedophiles, rapists and serial killers.

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None--- he/she should be placed in an institute for the criminally insane for life, not life with possible release but for life.

He should also have the company of all paedophiles, rapists and serial killers.

I suppose I should expect a facetious answer to a facetious question, assuming that's the case here.

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How the issue of a gun registry that originally seemed to be about preventing guns from falling into the hands of the insane, became an issue about punishment and guns that are already in the hands of criminals is a fascinating one.

There is something deeply disturbing about gun owners bitterly complaining at the injustice of seemingly being conflated with criminals and gun owners who conflate mental illness with criminals. The patently disturbed responses and comments towards mental illness in general throughout this thread not only reflect just how abjectly dismal public attitudes toward mental illness remain in our country, they actually feed them.

And what about the politicians who shrug and go with and even encourage the general public's flow in this direction? This would sure dovetail nicely with any who might want to let adequate and appropriate funding for mental illness slide by the wayside or who would rather spend a pile of money punishing criminals instead. Exploiting fear and loathing for partisan electoral self-interest is usually a winning formula too.

But surely no self-respecting voter would stand for a politician who's that craven and venal would they? It would seem so apparently.

It's pretty sick actually.

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How the issue of a gun registry that originally seemed to be about preventing guns from falling into the hands of the insane, became an issue about punishment and guns that are already in the hands of criminals is a fascinating one.

There is something deeply disturbing about gun owners bitterly complaining at the injustice of seemingly being conflated with criminals and gun owners who conflate mental illness with criminals. The patently disturbed responses and comments towards mental illness in general throughout this thread not only reflect just how abjectly dismal public attitudes toward mental illness remain in our country, they actually feed them.

And what about the politicians who shrug and go with and even encourage the general public's flow in this direction? This would sure dovetail nicely with any who might want to let adequate and appropriate funding for mental illness slide by the wayside or who would rather spend a pile of money punishing criminals instead. Exploiting fear and loathing for partisan electoral self-interest is usually a winning formula too.

But surely no self-respecting voter would stand for a politician who's that craven and venal would they? It would seem so apparently.

It's pretty sick actually.

I couldn't agree with this more.

If you read the RCMP's report that I posted earlier, it echoes much of this. The registry was simply another layer in a broader public safety package. Without the registry, it's much more time consuming and difficult to ensure that people that are prone to domestic violence or have a mental illness do not have access to firearms. If a court orders that a person not have any firearms, but there is no registry indicating what guns a person owns, it makes it much more difficult to ensure that they turn them in. Registered guns are also less likely to be used in a crime, since the owners know that they're tied to them in the database. The vast majority of gun-related deaths are suicides, but the homicides are usually committed by people known to the victim. Reducing the likeliness that someone is going to use a registered gun against someone they know, while being able to ensure that someone who suffers from mental illness is required to turn in all of their firearms (much like a licensed driver who begins having seizures can no longer drive), is a tremendous asset in public safety.

All the criticisms that the registry doesn't make cops any safer on the scene because they should assume guns no matter what and that criminals don't use registered guns is true. The registry is not some magic-bullet that solves all gun-related deaths and problems in our society though. It was never meant to be that. It was effective at mobilizing information for law enforcement as part of the larger firearms safety program.

At least it was, until the Conservatives started spreading misinformation about whether or not people needed to register their firearms. They always had to and they still do until the legislation is passed that scraps the program. The Conservatives undermined the accuracy of the records and the effectiveness of the program with their politics around the registry.

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At least it was, until the Conservatives started spreading misinformation about whether or not people needed to register their firearms. They always had to and they still do until the legislation is passed that scraps the program. The Conservatives undermined the accuracy of the records and the effectiveness of the program with their politics around the registry.

and that direct federal Conservative circumvention along with failings in appropriate provincial cooperation, also directly or indirectly influenced by federal Conservatives, had significant impacts to the overall software development costs of the gun registry... we went down this path in another MLW thread a couple of years back or so. Of course that never gets factored into the opponents fevered pitch whine-fest over historical registry costs... of course not.

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I couldn't agree less. If you're a criminal, you're a criminal. It doesn't matter if you're mentally ill. Mark Lepine was arguably mentally ill, I wouldn't have supported him ever seeing the light of day if he hadn't blown off his head. Vince Weiguang Li was mentally ill. I don't care, lock him up. I don't want to worry about him forgetting to take his meds and... oops.. there goes someone else's head. Andrew Conley was mentally ill. He got locked up for life.. and the sick kid deserves to be there. Karla Homolka, Paul Bernardo, etc. I have no pity for these people, only their victims.

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How the issue of a gun registry that originally seemed to be about preventing guns from falling into the hands of the insane,

Lepine wasn't known to be insane. Perhaps we need an Insane Registry.

All we'd have to do is pass a law requiring everyone who thinks they might be insane to register. Easy peasy.

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I couldn't agree less. If you're a criminal, you're a criminal. It doesn't matter if you're mentally ill.

The law of our land says otherwise. The different consequences being, you treat the mentally ill, you don't punish them.

Of course punishing them instead is a lot cheaper and easier on the politicians. All you have to do is get the public to support that instead.

Easy peasy as they say.

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It'd make sense to do a registry or certificate basis to tracking.

Example people with certificates would be assumed to be armed. People without an acquisition license could instead need to register their gun but couldn't have live ammo thus not use it.

Abolishing the registry is one thing but deleting or damaging hundeds of millions of dollars of work is in bad faith.

Edited by [email protected]
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"Prior to the long-gun registry, we had a perfectly fine system (Firearm Acquisition Certificate) whereby handguns were strictly limited to those willing to suffer the red tape involved in owning them, automatic weapons and stuff like bazookas were off limits"

I doth certainly agree. The fiasco of registering long guns did nothing to stop crime. The money would have been far better spent on policing.

Were I a cop I would assume any home I was about to enter for criminal activity or violence had a gun or knife, I wouldn't be checking a list.

I say what we had (FAC) was enough.

I agree, although I have no personal stake in this, as I don't own, or want to own, any firearms. It is silly to think a registration system will have any effect on the crazies out there. It's just a pointless waste of money.

Edited by Uncle 3 dogs
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