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As a classic liberal, I believe in minimum government, the rights of the individual being paramount, no nanny state, personal privacy, absolute right to property and so on. I realize that these values today are considered by many if not most to be dated and passe but none the less, they are still my values and I will never give them up.

rofl, sorry to burst your bubble but no party believes in minimum government, they all want to ban something

and want to keep tabs on us

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Don't vote. Every vote you cast is no better than a stamp of approval for a deeply flawed very outdated electoral system.

Well firstly, my approval is not that big a deal in the overall scheme of things. What's more, it wouldn't make me feel any better!

You see, since I feel the other parties are a worse choice, by not voting for the Tories the other parties benefit!

In effect, my not voting would be supporting either the Liberal or NDP, whoever is the stronger in my riding.

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In effect, my not voting would be supporting either the Liberal or NDP, whoever is the stronger in my riding.

There's an attitude with some that voting is fruitless because their candidate of choice is the incumbent and had previously won with a fair margin, and will win again. Imagine the consternation when their candidate gets beat. Big "oops" moment. Betcha they kick themselves in the backside. This happened in my municipal elections. Everyone said the incumbent was a shoe in but got beat solidly by a newcomer.

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Wow, the Tories are having a field day with the revelation of the Valeriote robo-calls. I mean, we all knew they would, but Pierre Pollieve didn't even pretend to answer Turmel's opening question :lol:

I bet they do that from now on. It won't matter what the question is. The answer will be 'well, the Liberals did this and that.'

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Poor NDP. You are the Official Opposition, but the government doesn't even pretend that you exist :lol:

At least they spend a line here and there acknowledging their questions...sometimes. lol

Does anyone have any idea why the NDP spend the first few questions in QP attacking about the Election Canada stuff but then switch to other topics like political appointments? They do this often and it seems like a bad strategy.

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A source familiar with the investigation said Sunday that Pierre Poutine may be asked about that.

“Where did he get the script?” the source said.

“He didn’t come up with the same script in 30 ridings.”

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/11/pierre-poutine-robocalls-3

Ahhhhhhh ... the same voter suppresssion script across the country.

Mhmmm ... Sounds like a cpc national party program to me ... an ILLEGAL program.

Who's going to fall on their sword for writing it?

Poutine? :lol:

Edited by jacee
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Wow, the Tories are having a field day with the revelation of the Valeriote robo-calls.

The Liberals are trying very hard to project that what Valeriote did was simply an "oversight" and that EC has accepted their version of events. If and until EC confirms that Valeriote is free and clear the Tories will continue throwing it in their faces.

Elections Canada has no comment on reports of an automated call sent out by the Valeriote campaign in Guelph during the last election. Elections Canada says it does not pre-authorize election messages and if approached to vet an election message, Elections Canada would advise a campaign to review sections 319 and 320 of the Elections Act.

Section 320 states as follows:

A candidate or registered party, or a person acting on their behalf, who causes election advertising to be conducted shall mention in or on the message that its transmission was authorized by the official agent of the candidate or by the registered agent of the party, as the case may be.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/03/12/the-robocall-rules-ii/

EC is not helping in clearing anything up at all. Of course, that's standard EC procedure as they don't comment on possible or ongoing investigations.

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Cullen will soon be the leader of the NDP and Harper's going to have his work cut out for him, Cullen is a different kind of thinker..Harper will fear him

What makes you say that? And how is he a different kind of thinker?

If Cullen can manage to read a question without a piece of paper in front of his face all the time, he will already have a leg up!

It says something about their abilities (or lack of) when I immediately think more of them when I see them ask a question without reading it.

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Actually, no. Scripts would have to be tailor made to the targeted ridings. Not even two of the scripts would be identical.

Since you seem very familiar with the voter suppression call process, perhaps you could enlighten the rest of us as to how a national party would manage it.

Slightly differentiated scripts ... ok ... what else do you know?

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What makes you say that? And how is he a different kind of thinker?

It says something about their abilities (or lack of) when I immediately think more of them when I see them ask a question without reading it.

Turmel is embarrassing enough outside of the Commons as Interim Leader, but in QP when she constantly is reading her script, she seems even more so. Rae really is de facto Opposition Leader right now. He never reads from a script and has such gusto.

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Turmel is embarrassing enough outside of the Commons as Interim Leader, but in QP when she constantly is reading her script, she seems even more so. Rae really is de facto Opposition Leader right now. He never reads from a script and has such gusto.

I'm not defending her but I think that might have something to do with her practically non-existent english.

I expect someone just starting out and someone not familiar with a topic to read a question but after a few months there is no excuse. Especially when they are usually straight forward questions.

I remember watching a NS legislature session and a rookie MLA asked a government minister a question and in his answer the minister said that unemployment was 12% when they came into office. Which wasn't true it was like 9. Anyway, the rookie just read his follow up question and didn't call the minister on his lie. The minister could have said it was 20% and the rookie wouldn't have called him on it because he was just going to read from the paper regardless of the answer. Even for a rookie I found that inexcusable.

End.Rant.

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Slightly differentiated scripts ... ok ... what else do you know?

I'm sure I wasn't the only one here to figure out those scripts would differ from one riding to the other. You just had to give it a couple of seconds of thought.

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Confirmation the majority of the 31,000 "contacts" made with Elections Canada were from online forms. Remember, this number was reported BEFORE Elections Canada put up their own form on their website.

Elections Canada says the bulk of the 31,000 messages it’s received from Canadians concerning fraudulent robo-calls in the 2011 ballot were merely form letters.

“The majority of those contacts were made via automated forms or online form letters,” agency spokesman John Enright said Monday.

Form letters such as those generated by activist website Leadnow.ca – which encourages Canadians to submit them – do not spell out an allegation about specific robo-calls but merely raise concern about the subject.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/online-form-letters-behind-majority-of-31000-robo-call-complaints/article2366825/

I am sure there were several people who used those forms because they may have been affected by one of these robo-calls, but it definitely muddies the waters even more. The opposition would be wise to back down from spouting that number. We don't know how many duplicates there were. Someone could have sat at their computer one night and filled out 100 forms for all we know.

Edited by UofGPolitico
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Confirmation the majority of the 31,000 "contacts" made with Elections Canada were from online forms. Remember, this number was reported BEFORE Elections Canada put up their own form on their website.

---

The opposition would be wise to back down from spouting that number.

IMO, there are a couple of good reasons EC had to make this statement. First and foremost, EC had to put a lid on the claims that it couldn't possibly handle the high volume of complaints; that was one excuse behind the howls for a public inquiry. Second, EC must ascertain its role as the stewards of the integrity of the electoral process and not cede the investigative process to another entity such as a public inquiry.

I would add that the media too would do well to adjust their reporting on the magnitude of the complaints.

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I'm sure I wasn't the only one here to figure out those scripts would differ from one riding to the other. You just had to give it a couple of seconds of thought.

yes - many ridings and in both English/French... which, of course, gives impetus to the 'central organization' theme... defeating the "throw the single lowly rogue staffer under the bus" routine.

A source familiar with the investigation said Sunday that Pierre Poutine may be asked about that.

“Where did he get the script?” the source said. “He didn’t come up with the same script in 30 ridings.”

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http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2012/03/12/19492466.html

A Simon Fraser University professor says there is statistical evidence that the votes of hundreds - perhaps thousands - of non-Conservative supporters were suppressed in last May's general election by some kind of robocall campaign.

Anke Kessler, a full professor of economics at the Burnaby, B.C.-based school, published a statistical analysis Monday of the 27 ridings where Liberals and NDP allege the Conservatives engaged in vote-suppressing robocalls.

In the draft paper, she did a poll-by-poll comparison between the 2008 election and the 2011 election, looking at the voter turnout among non-Conservative voters. She found "a statistically significant effect of the alleged demobilization efforts" in the 27 ridings where robocall complaints have emerged compared to all other ridings.

That said, she cautioned that her "analysis and the corresponding results are not suited to bring the outcome in a particular riding into question."

She also warns that "my findings in no way can 'prove' whether misconduct or an illegal act has occurred."

In any event, the paper is sure to be grist for the political mill in Ottawa where, for for the third week in a row, the issue has dominated debate in the House of Commons.

Kessler concludes that the vote-suppression techniques in the 27 ridings could have meant that anywhere from 1,000 to 2,500 people may not voted that otherwise would have.

The victors' margin of victory was less than 2,500 votes in just six of the 27 ridings where complaints have originated.

Of those six, five were won by Conservative candidates and in four, the Conservative candidate narrowly beat out a Liberal incumbent.

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http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2012/03/12/19492466.html

A Simon Fraser University professor says there is statistical evidence that the votes of hundreds - perhaps thousands - of non-Conservative supporters were suppressed in last May's general election by some kind of robocall campaign.

Anke Kessler, a full professor of economics at the Burnaby, B.C.-based school, published a statistical analysis Monday of the 27 ridings where Liberals and NDP allege the Conservatives engaged in vote-suppressing robocalls.

Show me the study and I will show you some flaws in it rendering it garbage.

There cannot be any "statistical evidence" for results with unknown input. Did Ms. Kessler find a single case of a "suppressed" voter?

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