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What will Monday look like?


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So as you know this Sunday is the election in Greece and a lot is riding on it. What do you expect the outcome to be? You could be waking up to a whole new world Monday. Or maybe that is sensationalizing the situation. I don't know what to expect.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is a difference between Greece and Spain problems, Grrece is all about the government but Spain is about the Spanish banks and the private sector, its not something the government did wrong in spending. I don't think we too much to worry about unless the US gets in the same kind of problem as EU. Which reminds me of one US economics who does think the next five years is going to be down and he's decided to take half of his investment and invest outside of the US. The problem is were does one go to keep one's investment safe. Only time will see if this guy is right.

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The talking heads have been painting the Greeks choices as vote for the austerity measures in order to get all the financial help or vote against them and try to go their own way, accepting the hardships involved.

I don't believe in either of these choices! They sound too rational, too contrary to human nature.

I believe that the Greek people will reject the austerity measures and go their own way, only they don't believe they will face any hardships of consequence!

I think they mostly think they can tell the bankers to screw off and things will still be fine!

When things DO get painful they will likely throw a few riots and blame their political leaders for doing what they demanded they do!

THAT'S human nature! Some may call be cynical, but I will keep a list of all who do and remind them if I am proven right! :P

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Well, the people with money apparently don't think this is any big deal. The stock markets all went up strongly today. Generally speaking, when people are worried about something happening on the weekend you see a big sell-off, but the dow finished on its high of the day. That seems to suggest those with the most concern in the financial system don't think the Greek election is going to cause any difficulty.

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The talking heads have been painting the Greeks choices as vote for the austerity measures in order to get all the financial help or vote against them and try to go their own way, accepting the hardships involved.

I don't believe in either of these choices! They sound too rational, too contrary to human nature.

I believe that the Greek people will reject the austerity measures and go their own way, only they don't believe they will face any hardships of consequence!

I think they mostly think they can tell the bankers to screw off and things will still be fine!

When things DO get painful they will likely throw a few riots and blame their political leaders for doing what they demanded they do!

THAT'S human nature! Some may call be cynical, but I will keep a list of all who do and remind them if I am proven right! :P

Well they on a course for austerity but they most certainly SHOULD reject the EU/ECBs austerity plan, which is essentially to turn over the governments real assets to a bunch of bankers and privatize revenue generating public property.

As for your portrayal of Greeks as people that "arent hardy enough to weather the storm", its really just bogus. They already are bearing a way bigger brunt than anyone in the west has ever been forced to bear. We are talking about consecutive years of rather alarming contraction, caused in large part by economic systems that Greece has absolutely no control over.

The real mistake they made was giving up their sovereignty and control over their money to a dangerous organization that has sought at every turn to undermine European national democracies. This is what happens when you allow banks to escape national control.

So after we just sat here and watched bankers destroy our own economy, its a little silly that we would be pointing fingers at Greeks for being victims of the same thing we were.

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As for your portrayal of Greeks as people that "arent hardy enough to weather the storm", its really just bogus. They already are bearing a way bigger brunt than anyone in the west has ever been forced to bear. We are talking about consecutive years of rather alarming contraction, caused in large part by economic systems that Greece has absolutely no control over.

The real mistake they made was giving up their sovereignty and control over their money to a dangerous organization that has sought at every turn to undermine European national democracies. This is what happens when you allow banks to escape national control.

That's one POV, Doc! I'm not so sure it's entirely accurate.

I believe that countries like Greece couldn't wait to join the EU! It gave them access to a great deal of credit! The politicians driving the EU never gave much thought to the disparate economic attitudes. They simply thought that the bigger their union the better!

So Greece and others join up and instantly are handed a giant VISA card, which they promptly maxed out as fast as they could! Perhaps that VISA was indeed backed by "loan sharks", as you repeatedly have implied but still, that doesn't change the fact that they went crazy with it!

I don't think countries like Greece, Portugal and a few others should ever have been ALLOWED to join the EU! I also think Margaret Thatcher saw this clearly and was right to try to keep Britain out of as much of the mess as possible.

Edited by Wild Bill
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As for your portrayal of Greeks as people that "arent hardy enough to weather the storm", its really just bogus. They already are bearing a way bigger brunt than anyone in the west has ever been forced to bear.

Ever? :rolleyes:

I guess history begins around 1980 for you, huh?

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Guest Peeves

Well they on a course for austerity but they most certainly SHOULD reject the EU/ECBs austerity plan, which is essentially to turn over the governments real assets to a bunch of bankers and privatize revenue generating public property.

As for your portrayal of Greeks as people that "arent hardy enough to weather the storm", its really just bogus. They already are bearing a way bigger brunt than anyone in the west has ever been forced to bear. We are talking about consecutive years of rather alarming contraction, caused in large part by economic systems that Greece has absolutely no control over.

The real mistake they made was giving up their sovereignty and control over their money to a dangerous organization that has sought at every turn to undermine European national democracies. This is what happens when you allow banks to escape national control.

So after we just sat here and watched bankers destroy our own economy, its a little silly that we would be pointing fingers at Greeks for being victims of the same thing we were.

Once you take the crap out of your inane position faulting banks for rather citizen excess in life demands, vis`-a-vis´ reality, it comes down to the fact that they, the citizenry, have bankrupted their country with the greed of entitlement.

The EU should kick them out.

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Once you take the crap out of your inane position faulting banks for rather citizen excess in life demands, vis`-a-vis´ reality, it comes down to the fact that they, the citizenry, have bankrupted their country with the greed of entitlement.

The EU should kick them out.

So the fact that the Greek govt colluded with Goldman Sachs to hide Greek debt so they could be admitted to the EU is on the shoulders of the electorate who should have done their due diligence?

However, early in 2010, Goldman Sachs stood accused of worse, when the bank was revealed as one of the architects of the emerging Greek disaster. Not only was it blamed for helping conceal the true state of the country’s finances, but it was accused of eventually betting against its sovereign debt, along with other major banks.

Even before Goldman Sachs entered the picture in 2002, Greece was already cooking the books. To qualify for admission to the EU in 2001, the country had to achieve a budget deficit of not more than 3 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) in line with the Maastricht requirements.

According to Spiegel.online, the requirement was met “with the help of blatant balance sheet cosmetics”.

“One time, gigantic military expenditures were left out, and another time billions in hospital debt.”

However the book-cooking didn’t stop there. In February 2010 Spiegel said that Goldman Sachs had devised a derivatives deal that legally circumvented the Maastricht rule. In other words, it masked the extent of the government deficit.

http://www.iol.co.za/business/business-news/goldman-sachs-role-in-greece-a-real-scandal-1.1258930#.T94l2LVDPw8
Instruments developed by Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase and a wide range of other banks enabled politicians to mask additional borrowing in Greece, Italy and possibly elsewhere.... Critics say that such deals, because they are not recorded as loans, mislead investors and regulators about the depth of a country's liabilities."

As a result of such shenanigans back in 2001, Greece was allowed to join the European Union while running up enormous debt that went undetected. Greece's neighbors will now be forced to bail it out, much as US taxpayers have done for banks as a result of the scams Goldman and other financial houses pulled off in this country. The common denominator is that the packagers of the collateralized debt securities, be they based on subprime mortgages or government airport fees, have no real interest in the integrity of the packages, for they will balance them out with credit default swaps that pay off when the assets prove toxic. And they will make their lucrative commissions coming and going, no matter what goes wrong. Even after all the trouble in Greece, Goldman President Gary D. Cohn was back in that country last November with a new derivative scam based on potential revenue from Greece's healthcare system.

http://www.thenation.com/article/its-greek-goldman-sachs

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Once you take the crap out of your inane position faulting banks for rather citizen excess in life demands, vis`-a-vis´ reality, it comes down to the fact that they, the citizenry, have bankrupted their country with the greed of entitlement.

The EU should kick them out.

Unlike other nations such as ours which were gouged out by the 1%, but we generously stepped in to save them with bailouts and austerity.

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Unlike other nations such as ours which were gouged out by the 1%, but we generously stepped in to save them with bailouts and austerity.

That's right, because nations such as yours was one of the first to dive into the fiscal crapper back in the 1990's because of such excesses. Federal spending and transfers to the provinces were slashed to the bone, the only difference being it wasn't called "austerity".

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Loks like ND will be the biggest and together with PASK there will be a solid majority in the Greek parliament and they can continue obeying their German masters.

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That's one POV, Doc! I'm not so sure it's entirely accurate.

I believe that countries like Greece couldn't wait to join the EU! It gave them access to a great deal of credit! The politicians driving the EU never gave much thought to the disparate economic attitudes. They simply thought that the bigger their union the better!

So Greece and others join up and instantly are handed a giant VISA card, which they promptly maxed out as fast as they could! Perhaps that VISA was indeed backed by "loan sharks", as you repeatedly have implied but still, that doesn't change the fact that they went crazy with it!

I don't think countries like Greece, Portugal and a few others should ever have been ALLOWED to join the EU! I also think Margaret Thatcher saw this clearly and was right to try to keep Britain out of as much of the mess as possible.

Like I said...

The real mistake they made was giving up their sovereignty and control over their money to a dangerous organization that has sought at every turn to undermine European national democracies

THe people of Greece were not even given a choice. There was no referendum on entering the Eurozone, and the only two countries where people got a chance to vote on it voted F_CK YOU.

So Greece was subject to interest rates set way too low, and they suffered a false boom followed by the inevitable bust that follows.

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Guest Derek L

Greek pro-bailout party to start coalition talks

Europe looked on with wary relief Monday as Greek conservative leader Antonis Samaras received a mandate to launch coalition talks after coming first in national elections that follow weeks of uncertainty over the debt-crippled country's future in the continent's joint currency.
Leaders of the European Union appeared relieved that a pro-austerity government had a good chance now of being formed.

"Continued fiscal and structural reforms are Greece's best guarantee to overcome the current economic and social challenges," European Council President Herman Van Rompuy and European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso said in a joint statement

Perhaps a trend?

In other news from the same link:

Asian stock markets climbed early Monday on the news of the conservative New Democracy party's strong finish, as did those in Greece with Athens stocks gaining 5.4 per cent in early midday trading.

It will be interesting to see what the North American markets do by the end of the day….

With 129 of Parliament's 300 seats, New Democracy lacks enough legislators to govern alone, and must seek allies among the pro-bailout Socialists, who came third

That should be interesting…..

Edited by Derek L
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President of the EU tells it like it REALLY is ...

European Commission president Jose Manue Barroso has hit back at those critical of Europe's approach, telling reporters: "We are not coming here to receive lessons in terms of democracy or in terms of how to handle the economy"

"By the way, this crisis was not originated in Europe," he said."This crisis originated in North America and much of our financial sector was contaminated by, how can I put it, unorthodox practices, from some sectors of the financial market."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-19/gillard-plays-down-barroso-comments/4079930

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