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All of the late twenty to thirty year olds I know are too busy enjoying the good life they've created for themselves to conclude that us "old people" have "[perpetrated] a massive inter-generational heist." I would say that there's as much truth to the "Generation Me" label that's been placed on today's young people as there is on the stereotypes placed on Baby Boomers....

I agree...the Millennials have an entitlement mentality born of the very excesses that some now criticize. I repeat my cute analogy:

Boomers > patiently saved cereal boxtops and waited months for cheap toys in the mail

Gen X, Y > waited for Happy Meal toys from McDonald's

Millennials > Demand free internet to steal with immediate downloads

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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Boomers > patiently saved cereal boxtops and waited months for cheap toys in the mail

Gen X, Y > waited for Happy Meal toys from McDonald's

Millennials > Demand free internet to steal with immediate downloads

There's a name for that. It's called progress.

Another generation or two and the toys will be instantly materialized in the comfort of your home using pirated replicator patterns :)

Edited by Bonam

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I take it from the responses to Kimmy that whenever anybody critiques, criticizes, or complains about anything, anything at all, here on MLW...they are "whining."

Let's see how that goes.

Edited by bleeding heart

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Kimmy mentions the money issue. The global markets have been in trouble for some time.

We can see how things are going globally to understand what will happen here.

IMF Global, using segregated accounts to do the banks dealings.

JPMorgan, now saying close to 6 billion lost.

LIBOR scandal will make IMF look like a cakewalk.

Housing/Mortgage burst in the USA.

US bank bailout.

GM bailout.

Greece bailout.

Spain bailout.

Ireland bailout.

Italy bailout.

Canadian Banks get a bailout (but it was not a bailout)

As Keiser says, time to hang some bankers.

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Guest American Woman

There's a name for that. It's called progress.

Ok - brought to you courtesy of the Baby Boomers. :)

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I take it from the responses to Kimmy that whenever anybody critiques, criticizes, or complains about anything, anything at all, here on MLW...they are "whining."

Let's see how that goes.

Yes, accusing me of whining is one tactic that AW has used before on this topic. (and "ungrateful" as well.)

The other is to talk about how content and well-off her daughters are, the implication presumably being that if you're not content then you must be bitter because you're unsuccessful.

As I've said before, I'm presently quite well-off by any reasonable standard. I don't understand why some people think my present comfort should disqualify me from commenting on the elephant-shaped time-bomb in the room, and I'm not sure why AW is so pleased that her daughters are apparently oblivious to it.

-k

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...As I've said before, I'm presently quite well-off by any reasonable standard. I don't understand why some people think my present comfort should disqualify me from commenting on the elephant-shaped time-bomb in the room, and I'm not sure why AW is so pleased that her daughters are apparently oblivious to it.

Maybe you would have a bit more credibility if you were suffering a tad more. It's like a Michael Moore (millionaire) movie otherwise.

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Maybe you would have a bit more credibility if you were suffering a tad more. It's like a Michael Moore (millionaire) movie otherwise.

What does it matter? The future of the Canada Pension Plan is completely fucked whether I'm a princess or a pauper.

-k

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Kimmy mentions the money issue. The global markets have been in trouble for some time.

We can see how things are going globally to understand what will happen here.

IMF Global, using segregated accounts to do the banks dealings.

JPMorgan, now saying close to 6 billion lost.

LIBOR scandal will make IMF look like a cakewalk.

Housing/Mortgage burst in the USA.

US bank bailout.

GM bailout.

Greece bailout.

Spain bailout.

Ireland bailout.

Italy bailout.

Canadian Banks get a bailout (but it was not a bailout)

As Keiser says, time to hang some bankers.

Indeed. I used the word "heist" figuratively, but there's an argument to be made that it could actually be applied quite literally.

-k

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All of the late twenty to thirty year olds I know are too busy enjoying the good life they've created for themselves to conclude that us "old people" have "[perpetrated] a massive inter-generational heist." I would say that there's as much truth to the "Generation Me" label that's been placed on today's young people as there is on the stereotypes placed on Baby Boomers.

Your generation is "Generation Me", more than any generation in the history of our species ever has been and probably ever will be.

Part of the problem, I think, is that Baby Boomers had more kids at a younger age than people are having nowadays, so if populations are dwindling, there are not going to be as many people in the workforce paying taxes, supporting systems that were meant to have an increasing number - or at least a steady number - of people paying into them.

In short, the systems that have been so good to your generation were unsustainable.

Sustainable has become a big buzz-word in social policy.

"We are revamping the Canada Pension Plan to make it sustainable."

"We are revamping the public school system to make it sustainable."

"We are revamping the healthcare system to make it sustainable."

"We are revamping post-secondary education to make it sustainable."

What all of this translates to is "we have to gut the funding for these things because we can't afford to maintain them anymore."

What all of this means is that none of this stuff will be there for me or my kids because my tax dollars are still paying for the healthcare and education and pensions that Canadian Boomers enjoyed.

I don't know what the answer is, but I don't think it's whining about what's been done to them - boo hoo - as young people today generally have enjoyed more experiences and more luxuries than their parents did. I think too many may have just expected that lifestyle to continue rather than realizing when one is just starting out, they generally don't start out at the top and/or debt free - and that includes student loans. I also think the world's wealth is shifting - it's not all here, in our countries, any more.

Yeah, kids today will graduate from highschool to find that college tuition has never been more unaffordable, rents never been higher, jobs haven't been harder to find in nearly a century, benefits haven't been scarcer in a century... but at least they have their iPods!

-k

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....Yeah, kids today will graduate from highschool to find that college tuition has never been more unaffordable, rents never been higher, jobs haven't been harder to find in nearly a century, benefits haven't been scarcer in a century... but at least they have their iPods!

Huh? My kid hasn't paid a dime for tuition, rent, books, or food. All paid for by Generation Me with zero debt.

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Yeah, kids today will graduate from highschool to find that college tuition has never been more unaffordable, rents never been higher, jobs haven't been harder to find in nearly a century, benefits haven't been scarcer in a century... but at least they have their iPods!

College tuition is only really paid by the wealthy anymore. Everyone else qualifies for financial aid of one kind or another.

Rent is actually quite cheap relative to housing prices right now. A homeowner can rarely make any real profit renting a place (in housing markets that I've followed, anyway). Home prices are still in a bubble and will need to deflate, it's true.

Jobs are plentiful if one has skills in a useful field.

Benefits should be largely irrelevant to a young person starting their career.

I think the gloom with which people prevalently view the future today is unwarranted. In fact, it's detrimental. In the worst case, it may perhaps become a self-fulfilling prophecy. The reality is exponentially accelerating technological progress (and the associated economic growth) will dwarf today's deficits, liabilities, etc. The future is ours to shape.

Edited by Bonam

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College tuition is only really paid by the wealthy anymore. Everyone else qualifies for financial aid of one kind or another.

Financial aid!?

They're called loans, Bonam, and they need to be paid back with interest.

Rent is actually quite cheap relative to housing prices right now. A homeowner can rarely make any real profit renting a place (in housing markets that I've followed, anyway). Home prices are still in a bubble and will need to deflate, it's true.
Renting is exactly like taking your money, putting into a giant pile, and burning it for warmth in the winter. It's gone and you ain't getting it back. It serves to keep people perpetually in debt.

Jobs are plentiful if one has skills in a useful field.

This is such bullshit. The national unemployment rate is 7.2%. Do you know what it is for people coming out of college? It's in excess of 15%. Employable skills my ass. With the retirement age being raised, do you think that's going to help youth employment?

Benefits should be largely irrelevant to a young person starting their career.

Except if you don't get them when you start, you'll never have them.
I think the gloom with which people prevalently view the future today is unwarranted. In fact, it's detrimental. In the worst case, it may perhaps become a self-fulfilling prophecy. The reality is exponentially accelerating technological progress (and the associated economic growth) will dwarf today's deficits, liabilities, etc. The future is ours to shape.

Platitudes.

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Your generation is "Generation Me", more than any generation in the history of our species ever has been and probably ever will be.

Pretty evident by the culture of consumerism we have been conditioned to take part in.

In short, the systems that have been so good to your generation were unsustainable.

Sustainable has become a big buzz-word in social policy.

"We are revamping the Canada Pension Plan to make it sustainable."

"We are revamping the public school system to make it sustainable."

"We are revamping the healthcare system to make it sustainable."

"We are revamping post-secondary education to make it sustainable."

What all of this translates to is "we have to gut the funding for these things because we can't afford to maintain them anymore."

Even more in short, austerity.

What all of this means is that none of this stuff will be there for me or my kids because my tax dollars are still paying for the healthcare and education and pensions that Canadian Boomers enjoyed.

As the great Howard Beale said .. 'First .. you gotta get MAD!'.

Yeah, kids today will graduate from highschool to find that college tuition has never been more unaffordable, rents never been higher, jobs haven't been harder to find in nearly a century, benefits haven't been scarcer in a century... but at least they have their iPods!

I don't expect the next generation to have any drive. I see it daily where I work. It involved some hard labour, and most of the 'kids' simply don't want to get their hands dirty. And it's not specific to any certain group of people. I've seen all kinds. The job pays well enough and the benefits are good with this company. It is slim pickings out there, take what you can get.

With austerity coming to Canada, we are in no better shape than countries like Greece or Italy or Spain. This shit is global and has impacted many economies around the globe.

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Financial aid!?

They're called loans, Bonam, and they need to be paid back with interest.

Loans are just one of many available forms of financial aid.

Renting is exactly like taking your money, putting into a giant pile, and burning it for warmth in the winter. It's gone and you ain't getting it back. It serves to keep people perpetually in debt.

You can go debate that with msj in the housing thread.

This is such bullshit. The national unemployment rate is 7.2%. Do you know what it is for people coming out of college? It's in excess of 15%. Employable skills my ass. With the retirement age being raised, do you think that's going to help youth employment?

Yeah, guess what % of people coming out of college have useless degrees? It's a lot more than 15% I can tell you that. And raising the retirement age is necessary as people live longer.

People need to stop pretending that getting a college degree means you're entitled to a good job and career. You need in demand skills. See here:

http://graphicsweb.wsj.com/documents/NILF1111/#term=

That's a table of unemployment rates by major. Note the absurdly high unemployment rates for people with degrees in "miscellaneous fine arts" or "united states history" and compare them to technical and medical majors which are mostly below 5% unemployment.

Except if you don't get them when you start, you'll never have them.

Cite?

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Yes, accusing me of whining is one tactic that AW has used before on this topic. (and "ungrateful" as well.)

"Ungrateful"!

To whom, a person might reasonably ask? Do we owe allegiance and accolades to God...or just to Baby Boomers?

And what about the so-called "Greatest Generation"? They are, so convention goes, even better than the Boomers (a journalist implied this when he coined the phrase)...where's their deserved rhetorical sugar these days?

And how have such debates degenerated to "kids these days," which is at bottom the argument being proposed?

:)

The other is to talk about how content and well-off her daughters are, the implication presumably being that if you're not content then you must be bitter because you're unsuccessful.

Personal anecdotes are only slightly useful, to underline specific points...but when they're used as rhetorical grenades, they should be ignored.

After all, people lie a lot when it comes to personal anecdotes on anonymous internet forums. Just saying.

As I've said before, I'm presently quite well-off by any reasonable standard. I don't understand why some people think my present comfort should disqualify me from commenting on the elephant-shaped time-bomb in the room, and I'm not sure why AW is so pleased that her daughters are apparently oblivious to it.

-k

Because you had the temerity to disagree with her, which is simply Going Too Far. Some posters are incredibly nettlesome about disputes.

But yes, I'm not sure why some posters take every subject in which a person expresses interest as being always and specifically 100% personal. Often they aren't. I'm not pro-choice because I wish to have an abortion; it's not a likely scenario for a male at this point, to my knowledge.

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"Ungrateful"!

"We gave you IPODS!

"

Panem et iPedes.

Because you had the temerity to disagree with her, which is simply Going Too Far. Some posters are incredibly nettlesome about disputes.

I think it's part ignorance, and part defensiveness.

When old-people talk about tuition and student debt, you invariably hear somebody say something like "well I worked my way through college. Why don't these kids just get summer jobs?"

And the idea that they're leaving behind crippling public debt to their children and grandchildren certainly doesn't fit with their self image. So you get "ok, so we ruined public finances and wrecked the environment... but we did great things too! Civil rights! Women's equality! See? You should appreciate us more!"

There's a clip from the new Aaron Sorkin tv show that's been circulating around lately that kind of sums how these folks see themselves. We used to be awesome, but now everything is going to hell in a handbasket.

My favorite part is how he lists all the things his generation screwed up, then tells the college girl that she's part of the Worst.Generation.Ever.

-k

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Guest American Woman

Yes, accusing me of whining is one tactic that AW has used before on this topic. (and "ungrateful" as well.)

If the shoe fits......

The other is to talk about how content and well-off her daughters are, the implication presumably being that if you're not content then you must be bitter because you're unsuccessful.

That's not what I was "talking about" or implying at all, but it's not surprising that that's what you got out of it.
As I've said before, I'm presently quite well-off by any reasonable standard.

Good for you; what more could you ask for? I have no idea what you're blaming everyone else for under the circumstances. As I said, most baby boomers were parents, raising children who became taxpayers paying into the system, by the time they were your age. People in general are now choosing to have less children, at an older age, and are enjoying more material things and more opportunities/experience than ever before. You honestly do come across as whiny and bitter instead of appreciating the choices and opportunities available to your generation. Quite frankly, you come across to me as if you have a chip on your shoulder. Each generation has to deal with what it has to deal with - that's life.
I don't understand why some people think my present comfort should disqualify me from commenting on the elephant-shaped time-bomb in the room, and I'm not sure why AW is so pleased that her daughters are apparently oblivious to it.s
Perhaps the elephant in the room is your vision, eh? - and I'm quite pleased that my daughters don't see it. IE: I'm quite pleased my daughters don't share your vision, your way of seeing the world. They are appreciative of the opportunities afforded them and realize the advantages that their generation has that the baby boomers never had. Edited by American Woman

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Guest American Woman

I think it's part ignorance, and part defensiveness.

And I think your viewpoint is part immaturity and part sense of self-entitlement - with a dash of ignorance.

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Every generation thinks it will change the world and every generation screws up in its own way according to the next generation. Blaming everything on the Boomers is stupid, we are all just products of the time we live in and the changes we encounter along the way. When you consider that many Boomers can remember not having television is it any wonder they didn't have a crystal ball that would predict where we are now. Sure they have made some bad decisions but do you really think they knew that at the time. Their grandparents and great grandparents blundered into the two most destructive wars in history.

In retrospect the Boomers had it pretty good but do you think they knew that at the time? They expected their kids to be able to do better and many have. My kids had nicer cars, homes etc than I did at the same age. They also have more debt. Millennials may be on easy street compared to their kids and maybe not. Who knows.

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