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The word of God in the bible is much different than the word of Allah in the quran. You need that explained to you? :blink:

That doesn't mean they are different mythological beings.

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That doesn't mean they are different mythological beings.

Nor does it mean the world is any safer for kittens or homosexuals.

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Guest American Woman

So here are some of the things I've encountered during debates or discussions with non-believers. Feel free to post your questions here...

Misconception: God hates homosexuals.

Correction: God does not hate homosexuals. He hates homosexual acts.

Then He shouldn't have created homosexuals, eh? B)

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but killing actually hurts someone or something. Does a homosexual act hurt anyone?

Perhaps because it undermines some of the other important things the bible wants to teach people about, like how to be more than mere beasts.

Edited by Manny

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Perhaps because it undermines some of the other important things the bible wants to teach people about, like how to be more than mere beasts.

So homosexuals are mere beasts.....hmmm....

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Why? Why would such a supposedly perfect being who loves all of his children hate something that happens in so many species in nature...species that he also created? How can an omnibenevolant being hate?

He is the Creator. He sets the rules. He has that full Authority....whether we agree with Him or not.

First, man was not created to be like any other species. Man was created in the image of God. We are above all other creations - in fact, we are in charge of all other creations.

Edited by betsy

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So?

Then probably Allah. Although Allah doesn't kill kittens, Allah kills the homosexuals themselves. Except in Iran, where none exist! :lol:

:lol:

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Same guy and everything.

To you perhaps, or anyone who doesn't understand the Bible. But not to us Christians.

Edited by betsy

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You're breaking almost all of the commandments. You're only supposed to acknowledge one God.

#GodFail

How can he be breaking the law when he's said it's not the same guy? He corrected SmallC's misconception.

Saying "it's the Muslim version," is just explaining it's what the Muslims believe, but that does not say Shady believes in the version given by the muslims, and definitely, it is not an acknowledgment that the Muslim's version is true.

Edited by betsy

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Misconception: "I didn't realize the bible included a pornography section though."

Correction: Yes it does.

Along with adventures and love stories, rated R hard action/thriller/disaster, health and well-being, self-improvement/self-help, history and other things that I may've failed to include here.

Edited by betsy

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Question: "So what does the New Testament says about homosexuality then?" Most people refer to Leviticus.

Okay....we'll try to do this in an organized way so it will be easier to understand:

First, let's take a look at the Old Testament again.

Genesis 18

The Three Visitors

18 The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.

God and His angels appeared to Abraham in the form of men.

Genesis 18

Abraham Pleads for Sodom

16 When the men got up to leave, they looked down toward Sodom, and Abraham walked along with them to see them on their way. 17 Then the Lord said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do? 18 Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.[c] 19 For I have chosen him , so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just, so that the Lord will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.”

20 Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”

22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord.[d] 23 Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare[e] the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing —to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”

26 The Lord said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake. ”

Genesis 19

Sodom and Gomorrah Destroyed

19 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 “My lords,” he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.”

“No,” they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.”

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom —both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”

The angels were still in the form of men, thus the mob of men were asking for the men so they can have sex with them. Lot, even offered his virgin daughters to this mob of men.

Leviticus 18

Unlawful Sexual Relations

18 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘I am the Lord your God. 3 You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices. 4 You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the Lord your God. 5 Keep my decrees and laws, for the person who obeys them will live by them. I am the Lord.

22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

Leviticus 18 enumerated various sexual relations that are offensive to God.

Edited by betsy

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Oh yes, NT says a lot about it, and quite specifically too! Leviticus is referred to, but the full explanation appears in Genesis, descriptions about the sins of Sodomand Gomorrah.

They probably practiced other sexual immorality, depravity, and bestiality - but it's the homosexual sex aspect that's been focused on in Genesis. So, that says a lot!

In the New Testament, I'd like to remind you that Jesus said:

Matt 5:17

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Therefore, the laws concerning sex with same gender still apllies.

Romans 1

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Take note that homosexuality was not lumped along with the "sexually immoral," but was specifically described as sex between same gender.

Tim 1

Timothy Charged to Oppose False Teachers

3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer 4 or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith. 5 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. 7 They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

Again, homosexuality was specifically stated, and dealt separately with the "sexually immoral."

Jude 1

Old and New Apostates

5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Sodom and Gomorrah are given as examples. Furthermore, that Genesis 19 focused on same-gender sex (instead of other variations of sex acts) as a given example of what Lot called, "wicked," only emphasize that same-sex sexual acts are indeed most offensive to God.

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Question: Is Islam an offshoot of Christianity?

Genesis 17:20

As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I have blessed him and will make him fruitful and multiply him greatly. He shall father twelve princes, and I will make him into a great nation.

Ishmael was the father of the Arabs. That the origin of the arab nations came from the OT, I think that is the one connection we can have between Islam and Christianity, and the fact that they believe Jesus existed.

However....

Islam rejects the diety of Christ. They see Him only as a prophet. They don't see Him as being One with God. They reject the Death and Resurrection (which is the triumph of Life over death).

Islam teaches that Jesus (Isa) was one of the most important prophets of God and was a human being. Muslims do not believe that he was the Son of God, nor that he is divine or part of a triune God as Christians believe. In Islam, Jesus was a human prophet who, like all the other prophets, tried to bring the children of Israel to the worship of One God. Muslims believe that Jesus was miraculously born of the Virgin Mary (Maryām). Muslims believe the creation of Jesus was similar to the creation of Adam (Adem) (the first prophet of God), they were both created by God without human fathers.

Islam and Christianity differ in their fundamental views in regard to the crucifixion and resurrection. Christians believe that Jesus was condemned to death by the Sanhedrin and the Roman prefect Pontius Pilate, physically crucified and resurrected. Muslims believe that Jesus was condemned to crucifixion and then miraculously saved:

That they (the Children of Israel) rejected Faith; that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge;

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of God";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and God is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

—Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa), ayat 156-158[7]

It is said in John 14:2-3[8][9] and also in the Al-Quran43:61[10] that Jesus will be sent again to earth at the end of time, and will fight against the Antichrist shortly before the Last Day.[11].

Both prophets have some similar teachings e.g. Muhammad and Jesus Christ gave the lesson of monotheism which is mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy 6:4, in Mark 12:29[12]and in the Al-Quran 112:1-4[13] and both are against division of God's oneness (shirk) which is written in the Exodus20:2-5 [14][15] and is also in the Quran.[16] But this is another misunderstanding of what Islam and Christianity mean when they say "God is one."

The Old Testament is affirming that there is only one God, over and against all of the polytheistic religions in the Ancient Near East. Islam is saying the same thing but is also saying that God is not triune, that there is no diversity in God. For Christians, God's triune nature is fundamental orthodoxy.

The Bible on Islam and Muhammad

Muslim preachers including Zakir Naik[17] and Ahmad Deedat argue that the Paraclete referred to in the Gospel of John (apparently written near the end of the 1st century AD[18][19]) is a prophecy of the coming of Muhammad.

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I go, I will send him unto you." - John 16-7

In the Gospel of John (14:16, 15:26, and 16:7) the word often translated into English as "Comforter" is the Greek word Paracletos, a word with several shades of meaning, including both "advocate" and "comforter"[20] Muslims believe that the Greek word Paraclete refers to Muhammad.[citation needed] Christians believe that the Paraclete who comes in place of Christ is the Holy Spirit, who was manifested on the day of Pentecost.[21][22]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_Islam

Please take note that this also explained the misunderstanding as to having "One God" by both religion.

Edited by betsy

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He is the Creator. He sets the rules. He has that full Authority....whether we agree with Him or not.

Oh really? Well prove that to me then...using a source other than the Bible. You see, I don't believe in the Bible, so you quoting it over and over does nothing to convince me.

First, man was not created to be like any other species. Man was created in the image of God. We are above all other creations - in fact, we are in charge of all other creations.

And yet there are so many circumstances where we are utterly powerless in the face of 'God's creation'.

Islam god.

Same dude.

To you perhaps, or anyone who doesn't understand the Bible. But not to us Christians.

Because most Christians understand the Bible so well. The reality is that the Bible and the Quran are both hate filled books that are very poorly written. Islam, is an offshoot of Christianity that started after the Bible was written. Islamic belief is based on Christian belief (as Christian belief is based on Jewish belief). Thee are differences in the belief to be sure, but it's simply different interpretations of the same sky fairy.

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To you perhaps, or anyone who doesn't understand the Bible. But not to us Christians.

Not to you Christians. On the other hands, there are Christians that aren't completely ignorant of other religions. Jesus is a prophet to Jews and Muslims, why? Because they believe in the same God, Yahweh, Allah. It's all the same entity. You can stamp your feet and whine all you want that doesn't change the fact that you're completely wrong to think Allah is different from your God. In fact, the Christians in Malta call God Allah because they borrow they're language from both the Arabic and romance languages.

I don't know why I bother to educate you though. You're perfectly content being stubborn and ignorant and not in the least bit willing to actually learn anything that isn't spoon fed to you by your parish.

Edited by cybercoma

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Not to you Christians. On the other hands, there are Christians that aren't completely ignorant of other religions. Jesus is a prophet to Jews and Muslims, why? Because they believe in the same God, Yahweh, Allah. It's all the same entity. You can stamp your feet and whine all you want that doesn't change the fact that you're completely wrong to think Allah is different from your God. In fact, the Christians in Malta call God Allah because they borrow they're language from both the Arabic and romance languages.

I don't know why I bother to educate you though. You're perfectly content being stubborn and ignorant and not in the least bit willing to actually learn anything that isn't spoon fed to you by your parish.

I dunno, I kinda enjoy the fact that betsy acknowledges there's more than one deity out there. I wonder if they compare notes or have turf and stuff.

Edited by Black Dog

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I dunno, I kinda enjoy the fact that betsy acknowledges there's more than one diety out there. I wonder if they compare notes or have turf and stuff.

She's committing one of the worst sins you can by doing so and she doesn't even realize it. Sad really.

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She's committing one of the worst sins you can by doing so and she doesn't even realize it. Sad really.

Well technically, she's not worshiping other gods, which is what the commandment was all about. The commandment itself acknowledges that there are other gods from which to choose.

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Well technically, she's not worshiping other gods, which is what the commandment was all about. The commandment itself acknowledges that there are other gods from which to choose.

So I can believe in Odin....It's just that burning a cow on an altar to him wouldn't make a smell that was pleasing to the Lord.

Edited by Smallc

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Guest American Woman

A lot of questions and misconceptions are thrown at Christians, and one meant as ridicule turned out to be quite ironic (from a Christian's perspective).

Recently, during a debate, one exasperated non-believer posted, "Betsy, get a life!" I ignored it at the time, and wished I hadn't. An answer came to me not long after....

I did decide to get a life! That's why I became a Christian.

And as one brother answered too: I have one. Forever. You?

Let's get this straight - Christians come in all stripes, with varying beliefs. You do not represent "Christians;" you only represent yourself, or at best, born-again Baptists (I believe that's what you stated you are).

You seem to suffer from the delusion that your beliefs are synonymous with "Christian beliefs" and that anyone who doesn't agree with you on, well, everything, is a non-believer or doesn't understand the Bible or some such nonsense. You also seem to believe that everyone should abide by, and live according to, your beliefs.

Enjoy your beliefs. But they are yours.

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The word of God in the bible is much different than the word of Allah in the quran. You need that explained to you? :blink:

Still the same guy... The god of that wretched little weasle, Abraham.

Edited by dre

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Still the same guy... The god of that wretched little weasle, Abraham.

Was he any more wretched or like a weasle than others who lived during his time? Or are you judging him based on a modern perspective... your filter... by the very same ethical standards, morality that come out of centuries of religious thought.

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Was he any more wretched or like a weasle than others who lived during his time? Or are you judging him based on a modern perspective... your filter... by the very same ethical standards, morality that come out of centuries of religious thought.

WTF? He and the others of his time had a perspective that people have been praying to experience for centuries right up to modern times. They received unfiltered morality from it's very source.

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