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I have found that a tablet of any kind cannot replace hard core productivity with a keyboard & mouse, but they are fine for media and web surfing.

This is exactly the reason I absolutely LOATH typing on a Blackberry pad or any mobile device through a touch screen. I ask people to call me now instead of texting, I simply won't reply back to texts anymore.

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Ever since Apple switched to Intel processors, the ability to handle Windows is right there. Might need a dual boot application in order to load one OS or the other.

Yeah. I could dual-boot. I was just joking with Boges, who seems to be a rabid anti-Apple "fanboy"

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Yeah. I could dual-boot. I was just joking with Boges, who seems to be a rabid anti-Apple "fanboy"

I have really tried to like Apple products, and the only thing I can use from them are the iPods. And with Apple making their OS's and devices more restricted than anything else on the market, it does not make sense for me to use the other products. Even my sister who is an interior designer loves her Mac, but does a great deal of the design work on a PC. Apple products simply cannot handle Autocad.

The other thing that throws me off from Apple products (laptops specifically) are way more expensive than a PC/windows counterpart while having a lot less functionality and custom ability. I'd also be willing to give Apple a go as a main PC, but some of my audio software does not work with the Mac. :(

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That being said, from what I've seen from Windows 8 is that it's looking to trump Apple's user friendliness. It looks extraordinarily simple to use.

The problem with "ease of use"... how do you define it? Not everyone has the same requirements.

For those new to a computing environment a snazzy interface can be very beneficial. However, for experienced users/experts, you can often find that the "ease of use" can slow you down. I was joking about using DOS 4.0, but I do software development for a living, and I often find myself opening up a command prompt because its sometimes easier to type (or retype) a few commands than it is to poke around various menus and windows trying to find some obsure option.

This is especially true when you are dealing with upgrading an operating system. (For example, the IIS web service screens are substantially different in Server 2000, 2003 and 2008, and its annoying trying to figure out where certain functionality has moved to between versions.)

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This is exactly the reason I absolutely LOATH typing on a Blackberry pad or any mobile device through a touch screen. I ask people to call me now instead of texting, I simply won't reply back to texts anymore.

I was sort of leaning that way too but swype and a stylus has made it a lot easier and text messaging does seem to have its uses. I can load a bunch of messages on my device and send an auto-reply of sorts with one button. 'I'll call you back, I'm...this that or the next thing at the moment.' I have a boss who would just as soon text than talk at work, so who am I to argue?

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The problem with "ease of use"... how do you define it? Not everyone has the same requirements.

For those new to a computing environment a snazzy interface can be very beneficial. However, for experienced users/experts, you can often find that the "ease of use" can slow you down. I was joking about using DOS 4.0, but I do software development for a living, and I often find myself opening up a command prompt because its sometimes easier to type (or retype) a few commands than it is to poke around various menus and windows trying to find some obsure option.

This is especially true when you are dealing with upgrading an operating system. (For example, the IIS web service screens are substantially different in Server 2000, 2003 and 2008, and its annoying trying to figure out where certain functionality has moved to between versions.)

Well you're clearly tech savy. I personally love Android because of it's customizability. I rejected the idea of a Windows phone because it looked way to simple.

With Windows 8 apparently you can always change the panel look back to the way Windows 7 looked like. $40 seems like a low cost gamble to see if you like the OS.

The reason I like Mac OS better is because I find file management much easier than on my Vista machine. I'm curious to see if Window 8 make file management much easier.

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Well you're clearly tech savy. I personally love Android because of it's customizability. I rejected the idea of a Windows phone because it looked way to simple.

With Windows 8 apparently you can always change the panel look back to the way Windows 7 looked like. $40 seems like a low cost gamble to see if you like the OS.

The reason I like Mac OS better is because I find file management much easier than on my Vista machine. I'm curious to see if Window 8 make file management much easier.

The file system in Win7 is a lot like Vista and is customizable to view what you want to see for information on your files.

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I'd suggest before anyone trys buying Win8, that you first download VirtualBox. (This is a free program you can run on your computer to allow you to have multiple 'virtual machines' installed.) That way, you can have your Win8 running under Win7, and if by chance you think it sucks you can delete it fairly easily.

I had a beta version of Win8 running on my computer that way. (Not sure how that affects the licensing though.)

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I had a beta version of Win8 running on my computer that way. (Not sure how that affects the licensing though.)

And what do you think?

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And what do you think?

Only looked at it for about 2 minutes. Have to say I didn't really like it.

But then, remember I'm a guy who actually likes using the command prompt, so maybe I'm not the best one to be judging it.

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Only looked at it for about 2 minutes. Have to say I didn't really like it.
I have had installed for a while. Windows 8 is an interface designed to annoy for the first few hours. Once you figure out the change in paradigm it is OK.

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I have had installed for a while. Windows 8 is an interface designed to annoy for the first few hours. Once you figure out the change in paradigm it is OK.

Thing is though, once you're used to it, is it easier to use than WinXP/Win7? Or about the same but different?

And how much of a 'power user' are you? (Like I said, I'm a software developer, so I often have to do weird things like set up IIS, register DLLs, etc.)

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Thing is though, once you're used to it, is it easier to use than WinXP/Win7? Or about the same but different?
It is many times better for a touch interface. I would say it is about the same for a mouse interface.
And how much of a 'power user' are you? (Like I said, I'm a software developer, so I often have to do weird things like set up IIS, register DLLs, etc.)
I use the command line a lot and need the Win7 mode. Can create your own start menu in the taskbar by creating a folder of links on the desktop.

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I took the plunge. I figured that I'm going to end up in Windows 8 eventually, so might as well do it now whle the cheap introductory price is available.

So far my reaction is "meh". I haven't spent much time with the new "start" page. The first thing I do each time I log in is click the Desktop button anyway, after which the operation is just like Windows 7. Right now I find it a little annoying to have to hunt around to figure out how to do the stuff that used to be available from the Start orb. However, I think it'll be fine once I get used to the new system. I have so far not done anything to customize the start page, which will also enhance my enjoyment of the system.

For now, my only complaints fall into the "how do I... where'd they put the..." type confusion that comes with adapting to the new interface. Everything works extremely well. I have had no hardware or software issues at all. Everything I use is working perfectly with the new system. And I also have to say that this was the fastest and most trouble-free operating system upgrade I have ever done. It seems like Microsoft has really done their homework to make this work well.

Overall, nothing here has blown me away yet, but the change from Win 7 to Win 8 was so smooth and seamless that I don't regret doing it at all, especially at the introductory price.

-k

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Overall, nothing here has blown me away yet, but the change from Win 7 to Win 8 was so smooth and seamless that I don't regret doing it at all, especially at the introductory price.
I think Windows 8 is for touch screens. I don't think that MS cares if PC users upgrade as long as they can stake out turf in the tablet space.

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The other thing that throws me off from Apple products (laptops specifically) are way more expensive than a PC/windows counterpart while having a lot less functionality and custom ability.

That's a common misconception. Macs cost more than building a PC yourself, but if you buy a high-end "pro" Windows laptop, and configure it spec-for-spec, you'd be surprised how much they can cost. For example, I just bought a new Macbook Pro last week. To spec out an Alienware laptop with their online configurator, matching it spec-for-spec with my Mac, the Alienware comes out to be almost $1000 more, and it was still missing several features that could not be added.

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That's a common misconception. Macs cost more than building a PC yourself, but if you buy a high-end "pro" Windows laptop, and configure it spec-for-spec, you'd be surprised how much they can cost. For example, I just bought a new Macbook Pro last week. To spec out an Alienware laptop with their online configurator, matching it spec-for-spec with my Mac, the Alienware comes out to be almost $1000 more, and it was still missing several features that could not be added.

Lol well alienware is also $2000 more expensive than a comparable laptop from Acer. That's not exactly the low pricing standard.

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Being a gamer I always build my own machines, as such they generally cost more than a pre built machine. The upside is that I also have far greater power and speed at my disposal, great for video encoding as well as gaming. Curently I'm building a new machine that will run GTX 660 Ti video cards in SLI, have 32 gigs of 1866 ram. liquid cooling and an Ivey Bridge K sku processor, although I may go for a new Haswell proc depending on when they come out next year. Having said that I'll stay with Win 7 on my new box. I have no desire at all to use an interface designed for touch use. Of further concern is the apparent desire by Microsoft to garden wall Win 8 so that applications like steam will not work with it.

Win 7 is a good OS, no need to change until Win 9 arrives, if then.

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By the way, I notice that under my post count it says 5 warning points. Does anyone know what these warning points are? Or how I got them as I hardly post at all anymore?

Okay, I found out what they are. They're all from 08, must be like a criminal record, they stick to you for life.

Edited by AngusThermopyle

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That's a common misconception. Macs cost more than building a PC yourself, but if you buy a high-end "pro" Windows laptop, and configure it spec-for-spec, you'd be surprised how much they can cost. For example, I just bought a new Macbook Pro last week. To spec out an Alienware laptop with their online configurator, matching it spec-for-spec with my Mac, the Alienware comes out to be almost $1000 more, and it was still missing several features that could not be added.

I've been building my own machines for about 15 years and give me a budget comparable to that of a Mac and I'll make you a killer machine that will do much much more. Give me a budget to that of the Alienware and I can build you a freakin monster. But this is really dependent on the operating system and how open/compatible it is. The Mac environment is just to constricting for me. Although with items like WIN 8, Microsoft is slowly heading that direction as well. So my future OS might be a unix type.

Alienware is actually a bad example of 'high end' for laptops or desktops. They tweak the OS and drivers to get maximum performance out of the system. It's a niche market for people who don't know anything about computers and are impressed with useless stats.

Also when people are buying computers they tend to think more is more ... and in many cases the more is never used. So there is no need to spend a lot of money on a computer in which you are just going to surf the net and other basic functions. But people buy based on wants and not needs.

My current box is almost 3 years old and still doing everything I need it to do. Built it for about 1400 then. This machine is used for everything, surfing, gaming, music production. And it's not tweaked, nothing special.

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Now thats a coincidence, I've also been building for about 15 years. No way in hell would I ever buy a pre-built machine, its been my experience that for the most part they're pretty sub par unless one goes with a boutique builder. Even then they tend to not be exactly what I want and also tend to get pretty pricey. I agree 100% on Alienware, vastly over rated and silly stupid priced.

My current machine cost quite a bit to build but still smokes after about 5 years, you get what you pay for. There are several reasons I'm building a new one when this one is still pretty darn good. I have an itch to play with the new tech, I want to game at 2560 x 1440 with high frame rates and all effects maxed and I just love building these boxes. Some would say I'm going overboard with it, for instance 32 gigs of ram when 16 will do just fine. My answer is why not? Right now 32 gigs of Corsair Vengeance 1866 mhz ram costs $175 so why not? That price isn't prohibitive at all. In case you're interested my preliminary specs are as follows.

Proc: Intel i7 3770 K ( This proc runs at 3.5 but will clock up to 4.7 no problem)

MB:Asus Maximus Formula ( The board is already set up for liquid cooling of the chipsets)

RAM: Corsair Vengeance 1866 XMP 32 gigs

Vid: MSI GTX 660 Ti Power Edition x2 (Run in SLI they'll give me great video performance)

HD's: OCZ Vertex 128 gig SSD x2 ( Run in Raid 0 as boot/gaming drives)

: WD Caviar Black 2TB x2 (Run in Raid 0 for general storage, may go with 3TB though, not sure yet)

Sound: Undecided, I may just use the onboard and run it through my TEAC DAC, gotta think about that some more)

Case: Cooler Master HAF XM ( A fantastic case with tons of real estate and options)

Cooling: Corsair H100 ( Very nice closed loop system with a larges rad and twin fans, should allow me to hit 5ghz plus)

PS: Still undecided, with what I plan to run it'll be at least a 1000 watt unit.

Thats my tentative build spec, as I said some of it is subject to change though. I already have the vid cards, the case, the SSD's and the cooling system so those are fixed at this point. My big decision will be the Proc since Haswell is set for release next year, it just depends on when next year Haswell will be released. The MB may change as well (it will for sure if I go Haswell) I'm a little undecided on the Asus since there are a few Thunderbolt equipped boards availlable now at pretty good prices. RAM may also change if I go Haswell, at this point I'm not sure what Haswell will require as far as RAM goes. Fun stuff eh!

Given all that I'm sure you can see why tablets and other low power devices hold no interest at all for me. It would just be too hard to go from a Ferrari to an Edsel. This is also part of the reason why touch interfaces hold zero interest fo me, all my periphirals are of a same or similar quality to my build components. If anything I'll hold out and see what Windows 9 will bring to the table. Of course there are already work arounds that will allow you to ditch that crappy, garish Metro interface in Win 8 and use an XP, Vista or Win 7 interface instead if you wish.

For me I'll continue to run Win 7 and XP on my boxes and Vista on my significant others lap top. Yeah, I know, Vista, but she likes and knows it and it is just a lap top when all is said and done.

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Angus, I think it depends on the audio chipset used in the motherboard. My Asus Gene II has a decent audio chip on it, however I don't even used it for anything. I use an M-Audio PCI audio card The main reason is that the onboard audio is very susceptible to electric noise interference. You can hear the clicks and whirrs through the audio. The other audio card eliminates that completely. But it depends on what you use the PC for. Most don't even notice it is there.

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Agreed, I have'nt used onboard in so long that I don't remember the last time. Currently my old box has an X-FI Music card in it, that worked well enough with my Klipsch Pro Media comp speakers.This time around I'm thinking I'll run into my main system, NAD, Mirage etc. This system is considerably more sensitive than the Pro Media's so onboard isn't really appealing to me that much. The TEAC DAC has multiple inputs so it will acomodate the new comp and my NAD cd player. If my super special significant other wants to use the main system I have a really nice pair of Shure studio monitor headphones I can use (non of that Monster Dr Dre garbage for me) so that plan might be good. Having said that I think I will find a good card for the machine so as to avoid any of the problems you mentioned. Given that a good SC doesn't cost that much I'll probably go with one in the end.

The really great part is that the wife told me to build what I want. As she put it if I'm building a new machine then I should put what I want into it (she really is super special). Right now I have a 22" monitor, Razer Lachesis mouse and Saiteck Mechanical KB. She told me I might as well buy a new 27" monitor and new KB and mouse to go with the new machine. She also mentioned that I could pick up Win 8 for it, at that point I told her that I really didn't want 8, for the reasons I've already mentioned.

What really counts at the end of the day is just how much fun this hobby is, not just using the new machine but the fun of planning, buying the components and building the thing. As for my old box, well I was thinking it would make a very nice media center, its still far too nice to just shove in a closet or spare room.

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