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US dead last in health care


Canuckistani

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...the "point" is that health care is like any other business, not some commie entitlement that you want to make it. Lower prices for faster/better care in the USA attracts Canadians who don't want to suffer patriotically in the collectivist queue.

commie entitlement? Really? What do you call a system... a country... that negatively impacts the medical care for 70 million low(er) income Americans with limited/constrained Medicaid coverage... that negatively impacts the health of another 65 million Americans without insurance coverage... that causes hundreds of thousands (millions?) of Americans to yearly seek medical care outside the U.S.? What do you call that type of system... that type of country? Is that a system... a country... just doing "business"? Given this threads OP reference to the 'American health disadvantage', how's business doing? You know, the "business" your country significantly spends more money on than any other country. What's the ROI for that failed business, hey?

Pretty well.....about 17% of the largest GDP on the planet. Any questions ?
any questions? Nope... I'll just let the following graphic and the threads OP study detailing the 'American health disadvantage' speak for themselves... you know, the study you refuse to address... the study you've deflected from throughout this thread!

yup... relative to other world countries, there's your 17% spending as a % of GDP! Nothing quite like a visual (and an accompanying 'American health disadvantage' study) to showcase just how poorly the return is for the amount of money your country spends on health care, hey?

healthcare-chart.png?maxX=610

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The reality is that the USA's excess health care capacity attracts Canadians with and without provincial payment authorization as a way to decompress the political heat that would otherwise be much higher because of wait times and the inadequate services available in remote areas. At many levels, the U.S. is part of Canada's health care "system".
nonsense! Complete nonsense. Most remote area 'inadequacies' are managed within Canada... no Canadian is authorized for out-of-country care without confirming availability in other provinces.
This is patently false, as pre-existing provider networks in the U.S. are already "authorized" via contracts.

patently false??? No, it's a fact. I appreciate facts are a most difficult concept and reality for you to deal with. For example, the British Columbia OOC guidelines specifically provide provisions to consider, "that all avenues for treatment within the Canadian healthcare system have been exhausted"... that funding approval will not be granted, "if appropriate and acceptable medical care is available in BC or elsewhere in Canada".

that's the fact, Jack!

Notwithstanding the overall number of Canadians seeking or authorized for health care in the U.S. is a minuscule number overall... regardless of how loud you bark and how long you refuse to actually provide numbers. Would you like me to drop that graphic image in here again?
Again, why are any Canadians seeking such care in the U.S. from the "system" you tout as "superior". Why would Chretien, Stronach, or Williams make such high profile political choices to seek care in the evil USA....it must have been really important to them...like maybe they wanted the best care available in a more favorable timeline. Jumping the wait queue in Canada would have looked even worse ! LOL!
hey now! If it's good enough for your Sarah! laugh.png
We used to hustle over the border for health care we received in Canada
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patently false??? No, it's a fact. I appreciate facts are a most difficult concept and reality for you to deal with. For example, the British Columbia OOC guidelines specifically provide provisions to consider, "that all avenues for treatment within the Canadian healthcare system have been exhausted"... that funding approval will not be granted, "if appropriate and acceptable medical care is available in BC or elsewhere in Canada".

that's the fact, Jack!

And yet there are other provinces with direct referrals for cancer, diagnostics, bariatric surgery, and residential treatment. The U.S. provider is already pre-authorized at a contracted price. At one time B.C. purchased blocks of 50 bed bypass surgery contracts with Washington hospitals. All that is needed is the usual blessing and referral by the GP gatekeepers to specialized care in Canada.

Happens the most in Ontariario, which has the most U.S. provider contracts (and some of the worst wait times). Sarah Palin does not live in a country with the false (and taxed) promise of timely, universal care.

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let's not forget... personal bankruptcy!

Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007: Results of a National Study - (The American Journal of Medicine):

ABSTRACT

BACKGROUND: Our 2001 study in 5 states found that medical problems contributed to at least 46.2% of all bankruptcies. Since then, health costs and the numbers of un- and underinsured have increased, and bankruptcy laws have tightened.

METHODS: We surveyed a random national sample of 2314 bankruptcy filers in 2007, abstracted their court records, and interviewed 1032 of them. We designated bankruptcies as “medical” based on debtors’ stated reasons for filing, income loss due to illness, and the magnitude of their medical debts.

RESULTS: Using a conservative definition, 62.1% of all bankruptcies in 2007 were medical; 92% of these medical debtors had medical debts over $5000, or 10% of pretax family income. The rest met criteria for medical bankruptcy because they had lost significant income due to illness or mortgaged a home to pay medical bills. Most medical debtors were well educated, owned homes, and had middle-class occupations. Three quarters had health insurance. Using identical definitions in 2001 and 2007, the share of bankruptcies attributable to medical problems rose by 49.6%. In logistic regression analysis controlling for demographic factors, the odds that a bankruptcy had a medical cause was 2.38-fold higher in 2007 than in 2001.

CONCLUSIONS: Illness and medical bills contribute to a large and increasing share of US bankruptcies.

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And yet there are other provinces with direct referrals for cancer, diagnostics, bariatric surgery, and residential treatment.

you've already been schooled that forms don't equate to practice... and yet you persist. Give it up - you've already received an acknowledgement to a (minuscule) number of Canadians being treated in the U.S.... relatively, "mice-nuts" in relation to the hundreds of thousands of Americans seeking health care outside of the United States.

do you have any numbers yet? laugh.png (given his recent post's expressed interest, I trust MLW member, 'Shady', will be stepping up to offer you assistance).

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you've already been schooled that forms don't equate to practice... and yet you persist. Give it up - you've already received an acknowledgement to a (minuscule) number of Canadians being treated in the U.S.... relatively, "mice-nuts" in relation to the hundreds of thousands of Americans seeking health care outside of the United States.

Sorry...you lose, as direct links to Ontario Health forms were provided long ago. Read them and weep. The province of Ontario has actually printed the names and addresses of foreign health care providers as part of its approved provider network, just like any other American insurance company That's right folks.....foreign (American) hospitals, clinics, and treatment centers as far away as California and Florida...documented in provincial forms and other documentation. Checking my own provider network documention, I can find no references to any Canadian provider. I wonder why ?

do you have any numbers yet? laugh.png (given his recent post's expressed interest, I trust MLW member, 'Shady', will be stepping up to offer you assistance).

Do you have any answers yet ? Why are Canadian provinces contracting for services with foreign health care providers ?

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Nice graphic for actual wait time scope for common procedures in Canada:
you should have stuck with the wait-time link/web-site provided by MLW member, "Michael Hardner"... it has credibility.

you really shouldn't be adverse to providing the full article link for your graphic, hey? laugh.png (prepared by the GOP staff of the congressional Joint Economic Committee... in the throes of going up against ObamaCare!!!)

hey now... don't forget to comment on the bankruptcy study just posted.

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understanding-barking.jpg

no, again... forms don't equate to practice usage. Approvals must still be granted - after confirmation has been received that treatment can't be realized within province, within Canada. You can keep barking this over and over and over again. It will not change the fact that the overall number of Canadians utilizing U.S. healthcare is a minimal number. Unlike the numbers below, hey?

... particularly if you're one of the hundreds of thousands of Americans currently traveling outside your country for medical care..... an estimated 750,000 in 2007! Wow, look at those projections, hey? 6 million/2010... 11 million/2013!

ve1ypz.jpg

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[/size]

no, again... forms don't equate to practice usage. Approvals must still be granted -

Wrong.....approval is embedded in the very nature of a preferred provider network. Why does Ontario (or any other Canadian province) have foreign hospitals, clinics, and residential treatment centers under contract as preferred providers ? Is there a shortage of available facilities and/or capacity in Canada? WHY ARE FOREIGNERS UNDER GOVERNMENT CONTRACT TO DELIVER CARE TO CANADIANS ?

Keep ignoring this question because the answer hurts.

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Wrong.....

how obtuse are you? I already gave you the specific consideration/approval criteria for British Columbia. Again, your "forms" don't equate to usage practice. End your charade... or provide a link categorically stating that no pre-approval is required for OOC treatment within the U.S..

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how obtuse are you? I already gave you the specific consideration/approval criteria for British Columbia. Again, your "forms" don't equate to usage practice. End your charade... or provide a link categorically stating that no pre-approval is required for OOC treatment within the U.S..

Why...you would only squirm in another direction. You still have not answered why Canadian provinces have FOREIGN health care providers and treatment centers under contract.

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clearly, you can't acknowledge conditions within your health care 'system' have a disproportionate affect on Americans forced to declare bankruptcy. What could the problems be?

Another member has already debunked that myth....look it up yourself. American bankruptcies occur for many reasons, including health related matters. Health related bankruptcies also occur in Canada....who knew ?

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Another member has already debunked that myth....look it up yourself. American bankruptcies occur for many reasons, including health related matters. Health related bankruptcies also occur in Canada....who knew ?

huh! Myth? Debunked? Where/when? I simply provided you a Harvard initiated study appearing within the American Journal of Medicine showing a most disproportionate number of U.S. bankruptcies can be attributed to health care cost/impacts. Of course there are other reasons... are you sleepy?

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Cue the Jeopardy! tick-tock music...for waiting:

November 29, 2012—
While progress has been made in some areas—most notably priority surgeries—people continue to wait at nearly all points of their journey through the health care system, concludes two new reports from the
Canadian Institute for Health Information
(CIHI).

...Waits occur not only in emergency rooms but throughout the patient journey. They start with primary care.....

Canada may be the only "developed nation" with more resources dedicated to measuring and reporting "wait time" metrics than for the delivery of actual health care. It has become a political necessity and obsession. Canada has invented a new and very official abstract concept called "wait time".

I think Alberta has the most elaborate and interactive web site for playing the wait time game. It reminds me of a very popular children's game called...appropriately....Operation. The web site visitor need only click on the part of the body needing attention and voila, wait time metrics appear to appease the patient (already taxed) masses.

29739_zm.jpgbody.gif

http://waittimes.alberta.ca/

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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how obtuse are you? I already gave you the specific consideration/approval criteria for British Columbia. Again, your "forms" don't equate to usage practice. End your charade... or provide a link categorically stating that no pre-approval is required for OOC treatment within the U.S..
Why...you would only squirm in another direction.

laugh.png is there a problem preventing you from providing such a link/statement?

You still have not answered why Canadian provinces have FOREIGN health care providers and treatment centers under contract.

are you really saying that no Americans seek medical care/treatment in Canada? None? Zip? Nada?

oh, here's a company right in Toronto:

now I could throw down a dozen+ links showing arrangements that assorted U.S. facilities have with other countries/companies... all focused on outbound health/service provisioning to Americans seeking health care options in other countries... all covered by U.S. insurance providers. You know, one of those other categorizations of Americans traveling outside the United States for health care... separate from those Americans who have no insurance, or have been denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions (or an insurers whims), or have limited/constrained insurance coverage. Now, why would American facilities have such arrangements with FOREIGN health care providers and treatment centers? Why would such an outlet be needed? Hmmm..... let's see... something about U.S. insurers actually seeking/finding lower cost alternatives in other countries... lower costs than what can be found in the good ole USA! Say it ain't so, bucky! laugh.png

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are you really saying that no Americans seek medical care/treatment in Canada? None? Zip? Nada?

Not at all....in fact...I celebrate free economic choice, something not legally available for certain insurance products in Canada (but provinces encourage buying travel insurance for identical procedures when OOC).

The U.S. has no government mandate for universal access or care, unlike Canada, which cannot meet this mandate in a timely manner without American based resources.

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Canada has longest Emergency Room wait times among top 11 developed nations

754957f0427dbd4ffd0f8560bda6.jpg

While Ontario's emergency room wait times have improved, the country as a whole still ranks last among western nations.

Canadians continue to languish in ER waiting rooms longer than patients in any other developed country,
says.

About one in 10 patients seeking emergency care here will wait eight hours or more, while the average length of an ER visit in this country is more than four hours, according to an
by the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI).

Canada overall ranked last out of 11 (developed) countries on waits for emergency department care,
” says Kathleen Morris, director of Systems Analysis and Emerging Issues at the
.
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