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Canada is dead last in access to health care....but Canada is #1 for access to waiting lists !

....Canadians rank last among top Western nations in getting to first base in the health-care system -- accessing a family doctor in a timely way.

But even when they get that far, making it to second base -- seeing the specialists many need -- is held up by a system in which the same family doctors, the gatekeepers for accessing services, lack a road map to timely care.

Even medically uninsured Americans fared better.

The findings paint an ugly picture of our health care compared to Australia, France, Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom and the United States. Other highlights:

  • Nearly one in three Canadians waited at least two months to see a specialist, three times as bad as uninsured Americans.

http://www.lfpress.com/2013/11/21/canadas-dead-last-in-access-to-docs

wow, if you're taking to quoting Deb Mathiews you really are scraping the bottom of the barrell to try to prove an unproveable idea. I'll leave you with a comment from someone who read the same article you are trying to flog.

Matthews Lies soo much you can fry Bacon on her tongue. I don`t know how this so called person can even sleep at night Hmm maybe a fifth to pass out

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Can we get some neon lighting in here somehow? I'm sure anything is possible in the USA

MLW is hosted in the USA... you did know that right? Some guy around here keeps stating it every other month or so... apparently, that means something... and should be enough for 'neon lighting'!

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Matthews Lies soo much you can fry Bacon on her tongue. I don`t know how this so called person can even sleep at night Hmm maybe a fifth to pass out

what can be said, is the statements/findings within that linked 'London Free Press' article, the ones so quoted with bold highlighting and a font size increase referring to "a comparison of Canadians to uninsured Americans", don't exist within or reflect upon the content found within the latest Commonwealth Fund study the article mentions. It's too bad we're both on the guy's ignore list... otherwise we could challenge the guy to find those same statements/findings within the actual study/report - this study/report:

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what can be said, is the statements/findings within that linked 'London Free Press' article, the ones so quoted with bold highlighting and a font size increase referring to "a comparison of Canadians to uninsured Americans", don't exist within or reflect upon the content found within the latest Commonwealth Fund study the article mentions. It's too bad we're both on the guy's ignore list... otherwise we could challenge the guy to find those same statements/findings within the actual study/report - this study/report:

And I won't hold my breath waiting for us to get off that ignore list.Easier to ignore/deflect...repeat. It can be entertaining though.

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And I won't hold my breath waiting for us to get off that ignore list.Easier to ignore/deflect...repeat. It can be entertaining though.

:lol: we're not on ignore... I mean, c'mon... how could he keep claiming victimhood, censorship and harassment if he has all his fans on ignore? In any case, have a look at the guys new signature! Clearly he didn't like that it was pointed out that his lil' effort can't actually be found within his linked article's claimed reference... so, of course, he throws it into his signature to reinforce he cares diddly about facts/accuracy. Of course!

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:lol: we're not on ignore... I mean, c'mon... how could he keep claiming victimhood, censorship and harassment if he has all his fans on ignore? In any case, have a look at the guys new signature! Clearly he didn't like that it was pointed out that his lil' effort can't actually be found within his linked article's claimed reference... so, of course, he throws it into his signature to reinforce he cares diddly about facts/accuracy. Of course!

Well the red is colorful for sure, and the font size isn't as overwhelming. Although it can get annoying in the same way a neon sign can get annoying. But hey, a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

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in particular, following up on this prior post, additional survey weight showing the significant impact on American citizens difficulty in paying for their health care... results from a relatively recent survey from the U.S. Center for Disease Control:

- More than 1 in 4 families were burdened by medical expenses in 2012, 1 in 5 were paying off medical debt, and 9 percent had bills that they could not pay at all

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- The burden of medical expenses debt was felt most by those Americans with incomes at or below 250% of the federal poverty level — which today means $48,825 for a family of three. However, healthcare-related financial problems were not limited to that group.

screen%20shot%202014-01-27%20at%202.57.4

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I don't see how it's possible to wait to see a primary doctor, unless you're deliberately not trying for the express purpose of being able to complain about it. I have always been able to get in to see my doctor right away. 90% of the time it's the same day, on very rare occasions it's the next day.

So the question becomes, was that just my doctor? Well, I unfortunately had a chance to test that this week, because my doctor had a stroke. It took me exactly one phone call to find another one in my area who is taking new patents, and had open time to see me the same day. Later that same day, I also saw a big Marquee sign outside of another doctor's office in my area advertising that they were accepting new patients.

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I don't see how it's possible to wait to see a primary doctor, unless you're deliberately not trying for the express purpose of being able to complain about it. I have always been able to get in to see my doctor right away. 90% of the time it's the same day, on very rare occasions it's the next day.

Beats me too, but hers is not the only report of access issues starting with GPs in Canada. Even if that is not a barrier, the lengthy waiting starts for a specialist or further testing for a host of reasons. Other Canadian studies report "dead last" issues for patients that present at the ER. Maybe some patients express these experiences as delays because they expect or have experienced faster access in other parts of Canada or other countries.

The whole point of this game is to demonstrate that it is not hard to find "dead last" rankings for Canadian health care, even if it upsets the collectivists who reject any public/private solutions to address such problems.

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The whole point of this game is to demonstrate that it is not hard to find "dead last" rankings for Canadian health care, even if it upsets the collectivists who reject any public/private solutions to address such problems.

game? Is that what your purposeful wait-time deflection is? A game... one where you avoid acknowledging all those dead last/near the bottom rankings for the U.S. healthcare system? Where you avoid actually discussing the content of those related studies/surveys. You've been repeatedly shown that Canadian wait times are subject to their own internal risk analysis, assessments and positioning within those lists. You've also been repeatedly challenged to put forward actual wait time accounts for the U.S.... one's that have full inclusion of all groupings of U.S. citizens public, private and no coverage categories. You've also been asked to comment on the expected impact Obamacare will have on those U.S. wait lists. You refuse... you categorically refuse... to take up those challenges. Of course you do! That would simply get in the way of your wait-time deflection "game", as you say!

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That one line. 'How many Canadian patients on a waiting list die each year?'

Then her line ' I don't sir, but I know there are 45,000 who die waiting in America because they don't have insurance at all'.

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Still waiting in Canada....it's the patriotic thing to do:

...the Organization for Economic Development and Co-operation released a report entitled Waiting Time Policies in the Health Sector. The 13-country survey found that Canada has the longest elective surgery waiting times (an average of all elective surgeries), with 25 per cent of patients waiting more than four months compared with 8 per cent in New Zealand; 7 per cent in France, Switzerland, and the United States; and 5 per cent in the Netherlands and Germany.

Despite spending 36-per-cent more per capita on health care than the OECD average, the Canadian system yields the poorest results.

...Unlike Canada’s monopolistic health-care system – in which hospitals, diagnostic facilities and other health-care infrastructure are controlled and managed by government – all countries ranking ahead of Canada in independent health-care performance surveys deliver publicly funded services through a combination of public and private sources.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-commentary/the-public-cost-of-health-care-waiting-lists/article9578341/

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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Still waiting in Canada....it's the patriotic thing to do:

...the Organization for Economic Development and Co-operation released a report entitled Waiting Time Policies in the Health Sector. The 13-country survey found that Canada has the longest elective surgery waiting times (an average of all elective surgeries),

ELECTIVE surgeries. No one is arguing that people who don't need care might not get what they want immediately. Even there though, waiting is not nearly as common as that article tries to make it seem. It makes me wonder what elective procedures people are waiting the longest for. The ones I've had were really quick - less than a week.

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ELECTIVE surgeries. No one is arguing that people who don't need care might not get what they want immediately. Even there though, waiting is not nearly as common as that article tries to make it seem. It makes me wonder what elective procedures people are waiting the longest for. The ones I've had were really quick - less than a week.

People who don't need care ? What does that mean ? Who decides what is a priority....the government ? Canada ranks last in these metrics for reasons some here don't want to acknowledge or explain....just as long as it is "free".

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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People who don't need care ? What does that mean ? Who decides what is a priority....the government ? Canada ranks last in these metrics for reasons some here don't want to acknowledge or explain....just as long as it is "free".

We have these people up here called doctors. They decide such things as that sore toe you have isn't quite as important as the man having a heart atack. And they do it, "for free"

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Who decides what is a priority....the government ?

No. Up here a Dr decides pretty much all of it.

Compared to....some lackey in a cubicle who doesnt know shite from shinola. But thats ok, you pay for that.

I just have no idea wahy you would want to.

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Gee...how can something so obvious keep manifesting itself in so many ways for lowest ranked Canada?

Canada ranks last among 11 OECD countries in a new survey in terms of how quickly people can get in to see their regular family physicians, showing "where a person lives does matter," says the Health Council of Canada.

..."We still use hospital emergency departments for too much of our primary care. And we show largely disappointing performance compared to other high-income countries, some of which have made impressive progress," the report’s authors concluded.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canadian-patients-wait-longest-to-see-family-doctors-1.2501468

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People who don't need care ? What does that mean ? Who decides what is a priority....the government ? Canada ranks last in these metrics for reasons some here don't want to acknowledge or explain....just as long as it is "free".

The link you posted is for ELECTIVE surgeries. By definition, that means they are not medically necessary. YOU want it, your doctor does not think it's all that important.

So yeah, when it's not medically necessary but you want it anyway (for free), you may have to wait. That's a good system, a very small price to pay to ensure that things that are medically necessary get taken care of quickly. Again though, the waits have been pretty quick for me. Not only was the surgery scheduled much quicker than I expected, I did not think it was right that these things were covered -- I should have paid out of pocket for them for them specifically because they were NOT medically necessary.

Gee...how can something so obvious keep manifesting itself in so many ways for lowest ranked Canada?

Canada ranks last among 11 OECD countries in a new survey in terms of how quickly people can get in to see their regular family physicians, showing "where a person lives does matter," says the Health Council of Canada.

..."We still use hospital emergency departments for too much of our primary care. And we show largely disappointing performance compared to other high-income countries, some of which have made impressive progress," the report’s authors concluded.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canadian-patients-wait-longest-to-see-family-doctors-1.2501468

Called my new doctor today to make an appointment. Come right in she said. If 10 other countries are getting faster service than that, good for them.

"Where we live" absolutely does matter. Canada is a huge sparsely populated country, if you choose to live in a remote region, ALL services public and private are difficult to provide. Actually, most private enterprise goods and services are even harder to access than public services are.

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The link you posted is for ELECTIVE surgeries. By definition, that means they are not medically necessary. YOU want it, your doctor does not think it's all that important.

No, that is not what elective surgery means. Elective surgery is not medically urgent, but is not just a passing wish...here is a story from Canada:

Three years ago, Katie (name and some details changed to protect her identity) was in a car accident on a rural road two hours outside of an urban centre. Her ankle was crushed in the accident, and after a delay of several hours due to weather, she was air-lifted to the nearest trauma hospital to undergo emergency surgery.

While the emergency surgery saved Katie’s foot, she was left in agonizing pain from the bones in her ankle grinding on each other. The pain was so extreme that she could not walk. She was unable to work, and barely able to care for her three young children.

For the next two years, Katie sat on various waiting lists, first to see a pain doctor and then to see a specialist in foot and ankle surgery. She was prescribed powerful opioids to treat her pain, but they were not effective – she remained unable to walk.

After an entire year of waiting just to see the foot and ankle surgeon, Katie was placed on another wait list to have her ankle fused. She had her surgery six months later.

Katie’s pain is now almost completely gone, and she is able to walk for the first time in nearly three years. But while this surgery gave Katie her life back, she spent nearly two years on various waiting lists before finally getting the operation.

http://healthydebate.ca/2013/07/topic/wait-times-access-to-care/wait-times-for-non-priority-surgeries

"Where we live" absolutely does matter. Canada is a huge sparsely populated country, if you choose to live in a remote region, ALL services public and private are difficult to provide. Actually, most private enterprise goods and services are even harder to access than public services are.

Another contributor to the last place OECD ranking. I am sure there are several causes.

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