Jump to content
Political Discussion Forums

Recreational shooting and firearms collecting thread


Recommended Posts

As a continuation of the other thread, which I think fits much better here than in the Science and Technology folder.

I've given up on ever obtaining a Ruger 10/22, and I have ordered a Marlin Model 60 instead. I'm getting the stainless steel/grey laminate model, which is really attractive and should last. I have heard lots of good things about the Model 60.

Also, I've obtained my second Soviet museum piece, and it's still not a Mosin-Nagant. It's an SVT-40 -- Samozaryadnaya Vintovka Tokareva 1940. (Samozarayadnaya = Self-loading; Vintovka = Rifle; Tokarev was the designer).

Mine is a 1941 with a 1944 stock. The stock is interesting, as it's a deep reddish wood, like my SKS. Most pictures of the SVT-40 show a blonder wood, arctic birch. They switched to a heavier, darker colored wood later on as the arctic birch was susceptible to breaking. These darker stocks were not just heavier, but also thicker. They were made for the ATV-40 (a fully automatic variant of the SVT-40). Arsenals had surplus ATV-40 stocks, as the ATV-40 design was abandoned (it was discovered that the ATV-40 was very dangerous to everybody except the intended target.) It's a certainty that my rifle saw action during WWII; SVT-40s were issued as quickly as they could be built. It's likely that mine was issued, broken, and repaired at the arsenal with a new stock.

Also interesting about my rifle: instead of a sling loop screwed to the side of the stock, it has a slot drilled all the way through, with brass inserts to protect the wood-- just like a Mosin-Nagant. I have not seen any pictures of SVT-40s with this style of stock. Other than that, it's pretty normal. Six-slot muzzle-break, bronze-colored bolt and bolt-carrier. Came with two-headed oil can, sling, magazine pouch, cleaning kit, and one magazine pinned to 5 rounds.

The reasons I have read why the SVT-40 was less successful than expected are that it was overly complicated, difficult to maintain, and heavy. I can vouch for all of these. I received rifle with the trigger group loose in the box; it appears that whoever packed it couldn't figure out how to get it reinstalled. I had to fight with it for about an hour; it's one of the few times in my experience where "hit it with a hammer!" turned out to be the correct thing to do. (I had a rubber mallet, luckily enough.) The mechanism has more moving parts than the SKS, and it certainly looks like it took a lot more shop-time to build. And it's big, heavy, feels really solid, and would probably be a pain to carry around all day. It's a beast. And I love it. Something about it is so bad-ass-- probably the ventilated heat-shield for starters. I disassembled and cleaned and oiled everything, and the action works very nicely. I bought some precision-machined snap-caps for it, and they load and eject beautifully. I am pretty excited to see how it works with live ammo.

-k

Edited by kimmy
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 123
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

...and my bore-sighting lasers arrived today! I ended up getting a couple of bore-sighting cartridges and an SKS sight-tool (plus a pursefull of stripper-clips) from an outfit I found on Amazon.com for super-cheap. The SVT-40 was set up perfectly already, and I didn't have to touch it. The SKS was wayyy off. Should be pretty close now.

-k

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know about this strange land called "Surrey", but here in Canada, we don't have a Second Amendment.

Also, let me add: in the past 7 months or so I've spent about $1000 on firearms safety courses, license, storage cabinet, safe, rifles, and accessories. I certainly wouldn't have done that if I believed owning firearms was wrong.

Also, most of my relatives on both sides of my family own and use firearms on a regular basis. Most of my relatives live in locations where "what do I do if there's a dangerous wild animal in the yard?" isn't a far-fetched hypothetical, it's a twice-weekly occurrence. My cousin's 14 year old daughter just inherited my grandfather's 30-30 and used it to scare off a lynx last month. She and her younger brother go shooting with their dad regularly and are completely familiar with safe handling of firearms. I too plan to someday also live in a location where I am more likely to find a lynx in my yard than a hobo, and when that day comes, having firearms handy will be part of that life.

And having said all that, I still don't see any reason why someone should need automatic weapons, or concealed carry, or 30-round magazines. I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation to expect people to present a PAL when they purchase ammunition, or to have them keep their ammunition or powder secured. I think the kind of restrictions we have here in Canada are entirely reasonable.

-k

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Derek L

As a continuation of the other thread, which I think fits much better here than in the Science and Technology folder.

I've given up on ever obtaining a Ruger 10/22, and I have ordered a Marlin Model 60 instead. I'm getting the stainless steel/grey laminate model, which is really attractive and should last. I have heard lots of good things about the Model 60.

Ahh the flu has actually saved oneself from a day’s shopping with the wife down in Bellingham……….

Too bad about the Ruger, I can understand the difficulty in finding new ones……..With that said, I just got another 10/22 used from a older fellow in Quebec (For my nephew’s birthday) with a Butler Creek side folder, Tech Sights, Custom trigger & slide lock and 25 round Butler Creek mag for $210 plus shipping (35 bucks)……..Haven’t tried it yet, but it appears in very good condition aside from a few scratches…….Moral of the Story, look for a used one.

As to Marlin, though I’m critical (like Remington, they are owned by the same company) of their newer rifles QC, also bought a ~40 year old Marlin model 989 M2 (is styled after the M1 Carbine) a few months ago, and said rifle is in mint shape………and very accurate………..My only beef, is that it came with a Marlin Papoose nickel plated 7- round mag (detracts from the Carbine look) and it took some time to find black/blued mags (Have since found a couple of 7 & 15 round mags from Gun Corp down in New York State)

Also, I've obtained my second Soviet museum piece, and it's still not a Mosin-Nagant. It's an SVT-40 -- Samozaryadnaya Vintovka Tokareva 1940. (Samozarayadnaya = Self-loading; Vintovka = Rifle; Tokarev was the designer).

Mine is a 1941 with a 1944 stock. The stock is interesting, as it's a deep reddish wood, like my SKS. Most pictures of the SVT-40 show a blonder wood, arctic birch. They switched to a heavier, darker colored wood later on as the arctic birch was susceptible to breaking. These darker stocks were not just heavier, but also thicker. They were made for the ATV-40 (a fully automatic variant of the SVT-40). Arsenals had surplus ATV-40 stocks, as the ATV-40 design was abandoned (it was discovered that the ATV-40 was very dangerous to everybody except the intended target.) It's a certainty that my rifle saw action during WWII; SVT-40s were issued as quickly as they could be built. It's likely that mine was issued, broken, and repaired at the arsenal with a new stock.

Also interesting about my rifle: instead of a sling loop screwed to the side of the stock, it has a slot drilled all the way through, with brass inserts to protect the wood-- just like a Mosin-Nagant. I have not seen any pictures of SVT-40s with this style of stock. Other than that, it's pretty normal. Six-slot muzzle-break, bronze-colored bolt and bolt-carrier. Came with two-headed oil can, sling, magazine pouch, cleaning kit, and one magazine pinned to 5 rounds.

The reasons I have read why the SVT-40 was less successful than expected are that it was overly complicated, difficult to maintain, and heavy. I can vouch for all of these. I received rifle with the trigger group loose in the box; it appears that whoever packed it couldn't figure out how to get it reinstalled. I had to fight with it for about an hour; it's one of the few times in my experience where "hit it with a hammer!" turned out to be the correct thing to do. (I had a rubber mallet, luckily enough.) The mechanism has more moving parts than the SKS, and it certainly looks like it took a lot more shop-time to build. And it's big, heavy, feels really solid, and would probably be a pain to carry around all day. It's a beast. And I love it. Something about it is so bad-ass-- probably the ventilated heat-shield for starters. I disassembled and cleaned and oiled everything, and the action works very nicely. I bought some precision-machined snap-caps for it, and they load and eject beautifully. I am pretty excited to see how it works with live ammo.

I’ve actually never owned a SVT-40, but had the opportunity a few years back to shoot one, and my opinion of them was that they seemed accurate and weighed and had about the same felt recoil as an M1 Garand (Well also using the rough Soviet equivalent of the 30-06 cartridge)…………From what I understand though, is that they can be very difficult to find repair parts for and due to their (rushed) wartime construction have varying differences in standardization of parts, in that a gun made in one factory, might not share the same parts as one made in another factory……….Also, as I alluded to in my email to you, it’s very difficult to find (In Canada) spare magazines and due to the standardization issues, some after market mags might require a good filing to get them to fit………….

One solution to that, when you have the opportunity, try and purchase a second gun from the same factory……..I’m not 100% certain, but I would think that the SVT-40, like the SKS will have manufactures stamps on either the barrel and/or receiver, and like the SKS, you could figure out with some interneting, which State Arsenal made it.

Now I’ve noticed with your recent purchases, no handgun yet………..Might I suggest jumping on this bandwagon rather soon:

http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/details/6672/Tokarev-TT-33-762x25-Blued-Fixed-Polish-Manufacturer-Unissued.aspx

Only so many are going to be sold/supplied in Canada, and from all the reviews I’ve read, the Polish Tokarev’s are miles ahead of the Russian made ones in terms of accuracy and reliability…….And won’t last long (My father and I have both ordered one each and are still waiting on the transfer)……..

For pretty much a brand new handgun, they are probably the best you’ll find out there for under $600 bucks, and if you by the ammo in bulk, considerably cheaper to shoot than 9mm………

And would go nicely with Komrade Kimmy’s Kollection of Kommie guns. biggrin.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Derek L

...and my bore-sighting lasers arrived today! I ended up getting a couple of bore-sighting cartridges and an SKS sight-tool (plus a pursefull of stripper-clips) from an outfit I found on Amazon.com for super-cheap. The SVT-40 was set up perfectly already, and I didn't have to touch it. The SKS was wayyy off. Should be pretty close now.

-k

No Soviet urban pattern camo yet? biggrin.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Derek L

And having said all that, I still don't see any reason why someone should need automatic weapons, or concealed carry, or 30-round magazines. I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation to expect people to present a PAL when they purchase ammunition, or to have them keep their ammunition or powder secured. I think the kind of restrictions we have here in Canada are entirely reasonable.

-k

Three quick points……….There are Canadians with the prohib licence that own fully automatic M-16s, AK-47s, Sten Guns, Vickers machine guns, Brens etc…………..How often have you heard of such legal guns being used in crimes in Canada, or the United States for that mater.

As to CCW, again, people in Canada can apply for and get Authorization to Carry permits, though very, very rare, citizens do have them……….Or next time you look at an Armoured Car driver/crew, they carry handguns, have got the same gun licence as you coupled with several weeks of additional security training……..

And to mag limits, your SVT-40 likely has a pinned 20 round mag………If said pin was removed, I highly doubt you’d turn into a homicidal maniac………

I agree fully with licensing, and would even be in favour of making the process here even stricter, as I also fully agree with safe storage laws……..but like I said, just ask yourself, would having your new SVT-40 with a unpinned 20 round mag make you a greater threat to society?

Link to post
Share on other sites

As to Marlin, though I’m critical (like Remington, they are owned by the same company) of their newer rifles QC, also bought a ~40 year old Marlin model 989 M2 (is styled after the M1 Carbine) a few months ago, and said rifle is in mint shape………and very accurate………..My only beef, is that it came with a Marlin Papoose nickel plated 7- round mag (detracts from the Carbine look) and it took some time to find black/blued mags (Have since found a couple of 7 & 15 round mags from Gun Corp down in New York State)

I was a little concerned about buying a Marlin, with the ongoing talk of quality issues. However I gather that the QC problems have affected mostly the lever-guns, and I've heard many positive reviews of new Model 60s.

It sounds to me like what has happened to Marlin and Remington is the same thing as Bain Capital did to Sealy mattresses.

One solution to that, when you have the opportunity, try and purchase a second gun from the same factory……..I’m not 100% certain, but I would think that the SVT-40, like the SKS will have manufactures stamps on either the barrel and/or receiver, and like the SKS, you could figure out with some interneting, which State Arsenal made it.

It's a Tula... but the replacement stock and magazine are Iveshk. I would like to get 2 more magazines to go with it. First off because this one is kind of beat-up looking (it's got serial numbers from 3 different guns scratched out!) and also for authenticity-- these guns came with 3 magazines, and it came with a 2-magazine pouch that's empty right now. I am pretty sure the magazine's original capacity was 10, not 20. I don't think I would actually swap the magazines to reload anyway-- the stripper-clips seem to work nicely (although I've only tried it with 2 rounds, not 5.

For pretty much a brand new handgun, they are probably the best you’ll find out there for under $600 bucks, and if you by the ammo in bulk, considerably cheaper to shoot than 9mm………

And would go nicely with Komrade Kimmy’s Kollection of Kommie guns. biggrin.png

A TT-33 is definitely on my to-do list! I still haven't joined a firing range, so I can't yet purchase a pistol, however.

No Soviet urban pattern camo yet? biggrin.png

Where I live, I don't think urban camo would be that useful. Perhaps if they have camo that would help me blend in with SUVs... smile.png

I might, however, need to get myself a nice red Hammer and Sickle flag and declare my apartment to be a very small collective.

And to mag limits, your SVT-40 likely has a pinned 20 round mag………If said pin was removed, I highly doubt you’d turn into a homicidal maniac………

I agree fully with licensing, and would even be in favour of making the process here even stricter, as I also fully agree with safe storage laws……..but like I said, just ask yourself, would having your new SVT-40 with a unpinned 20 round mag make you a greater threat to society?

Would I turn into a deranged killer if the rivet popped out of my magazine? of course not. But if somebody had a propensity to be a deranged killer, I would much rather he have a 5-round magazine than a 20-round magazine. Ideally he wouldn't have a gun at all, but I think we all understand that there's no perfect way of assessing who might or might not be a threat.

Security guards may have carry permits, but they don't have concealed carry. I don't think there is a good reason for concealed carry. As for prohibited weapons licenses, I don't know what the process for getting one in Canada is, but I doubt they're granted lightly.

I think the laws we have are sensible and they seem to be pretty effective. I really don't have any sympathy for the people who shout "the gubbermint is coming for our guns!!" in response to proposals for reasonable and not very onerous restrctions.

-k

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Derek L

I was a little concerned about buying a Marlin, with the ongoing talk of quality issues. However I gather that the QC problems have affected mostly the lever-guns, and I've heard many positive reviews of new Model 60s.

It sounds to me like what has happened to Marlin and Remington is the same thing as Bain Capital did to Sealy mattresses.

And Bushmaster..........I'd love to see the Freedom Group come under new management……….I’ve heard due to the recent NY gun legislation, laws in many ways more restrictive then ours, Remington might also leave their historic factory for a new one in a different State……..

It's a Tula... but the replacement stock and magazine are Iveshk. I would like to get 2 more magazines to go with it. First off because this one is kind of beat-up looking (it's got serial numbers from 3 different guns scratched out!) and also for authenticity-- these guns came with 3 magazines, and it came with a 2-magazine pouch that's empty right now. I am pretty sure the magazine's original capacity was 10, not 20. I don't think I would actually swap the magazines to reload anyway-- the stripper-clips seem to work nicely (although I've only tried it with 2 rounds, not 5.

I’d guess that you’d also be able to use the same stripper clips in a Nagant……………That’s much the same way has how they did it with the Lee Enfield………a lot easier packing the ammo then those big bulky mags…….

A TT-33 is definitely on my to-do list! I still haven't joined a firing range, so I can't yet purchase a pistol, however.

Like I was saying months ago, join the one I’m a member of……..30 bucks a year and good throughout the Province, wherever you live in BC…….And some good news for a change with the BC CFO, my daughter sent away just before Christmas for her long term ATT, and it was approved in just under a month……. Seems like they are getting through the log jam.

Where I live, I don't think urban camo would be that useful. Perhaps if they have camo that would help me blend in with SUVs... smile.png

I might, however, need to get myself a nice red Hammer and Sickle flag and declare my apartment to be a very small collective.

Oh, I think the Spetsnaz know a thing or two about stylish colors that would blend in colder climate urban environments........

onedayingrozny1-19.jpg

Would I turn into a deranged killer if the rivet popped out of my magazine? of course not. But if somebody had a propensity to be a deranged killer, I would much rather he have a 5-round magazine than a 20-round magazine. Ideally he wouldn't have a gun at all, but I think we all understand that there's no perfect way of assessing who might or might not be a threat.

But that’s just it, we both agree such a person shouldn’t have said guns, but if they did, would said rivet really mater?

Security guards may have carry permits, but they don't have concealed carry. I don't think there is a good reason for concealed carry. As for prohibited weapons licenses, I don't know what the process for getting one in Canada is, but I doubt they're granted lightly.

Ahh, but the said guards aren’t really different then you or I………They guard money, I purport to the ability of guarding oneself legally.

As to the Prohibited licences, you can’t simply get one, since they were handed out only to folks that owned said firearms already when they brought in the gun licensing in the 90s………My father, and many other Canadians got one of the various classes of 12.x class licenses……..My Dad has a 12.6 licence for handguns with barrels shorter then 4.2” or in .25 & .32ACP (He owns a several Walther PPKs, several short barrelled revolvers (Smith’s and Colts) and a 4“ Colt Python)……..Those with full autos have a 12.2 licence, and those with a converted to semi-auto automatic, a 12.3 licence………..

The handguns can be used like any other hand guns at the range, but those with the autos and semi autos are shit out of luck and can only keep them at home………Now I could apply (as could my siblings and my mother) for a 12.7 licence that would allow my father to give me one of his 12.6 guns (That were made prior to 1949 IIRC), but with said licence, I can’t purchase different 12.6 class guns like my father does……..When the old bugger croaks (his words, not mine), he can will any of his 12.6 guns (made prior to 1949) to my Mom, myself and siblings and his Grandchildren.

Now as a reasonable person with an interest in firearms, can you see any intelligent reason why a handgun in .25 or .32 ACP calibers should be banned? Or how about a Smith & Wesson .38 Special revolver with a 4” barrel being more dangerous then the same gun with a barrel over 4.2”? Or how are Government will allow people to own a fully functioning AK-47 or an Uzi, but not allow them to use them, like other guns, safely at a range?

I think the laws we have are sensible and they seem to be pretty effective. I really don't have any sympathy for the people who shout "the gubbermint is coming for our guns!!" in response to proposals for reasonable and not very onerous restrctions.

Like I said prior, I've no problem with requiring a licence, but how they categorize guns, as demonstrated by my above example with the 12.6 class was nothing more than an attempt at gradual confiscation of said guns………it just might take a couple of decades until all the old farts die off…………

By setting the restricted barrel length at 4.2” inches they prohibited nearly 60-70% of all handguns, mostly old revolvers, in the mid 90s……… What’s next? A ban on all handguns with a capacity over 7 rounds? Sounds far fetched? New York State just did it……

Link to post
Share on other sites

And Bushmaster..........I'd love to see the Freedom Group come under new management……….I’ve heard due to the recent NY gun legislation, laws in many ways more restrictive then ours, Remington might also leave their historic factory for a new one in a different State……..

To me it just sounds like bean-counters finding ways to increase the margins.

First it's laying off all the experienced Marlin employees and consolidating production at one factory. Then it's cutting costs there too. Then it'll be finding a cheaper factory to build guns at. Maybe they can get a factory in Brazil or Korea to build the same guns for cheaper. "We've got the blueprints; what else do we need?"

I’d guess that you’d also be able to use the same stripper clips in a Nagant……………That’s much the same way has how they did it with the Lee Enfield………a lot easier packing the ammo then those big bulky mags…….

They were actually billed as "Mosin Nagant stripper clips" on the website I bought them from, but I had a strong hunch they'd work with the SVT40.

Like I was saying months ago, join the one I’m a member of……..30 bucks a year and good throughout the Province, wherever you live in BC…….And some good news for a change with the BC CFO, my daughter sent away just before Christmas for her long term ATT, and it was approved in just under a month……. Seems like they are getting through the log jam.

You've mentioned Silvercore before. I'll look into it.

But that’s just it, we both agree such a person shouldn’t have said guns, but if they did, would said rivet really mater?

If I was in charge of such things, I think I'd require a more permanent method of reducing the magazine than a rivet. Nonetheless, I have a hard time picturing the guy who's planning a massacre settling on the idea of an SVT40 with unpinned magazines as the optimum way of getting bullets away in a hurry. The magazines are hard to find, expensive, brick-heavy even when empty, and only hold 10 shots anyway. And the bullets themselves weigh twice as much as .223 bullets.

Now, contrast that with the light synthetic 30-shot .223 magazines that are available. It's conceivable that a guy could carry enough ammunition to wipe out every person in a school in his backpack, and it's conceivable that he could kill everybody in a classroom without stopping to reload.

There has to be a line drawn somewhere. I don't think either of us wants hand-grenades or 50mm cannons or fully-automatic weapons available to the general public. I don't think either of us thinks James Bond pen-guns should be available. And any time lines are drawn, it's arbitrary. Should the drinking age be 21 or 19 or 18? We know there are 17 year olds who are mature enough to handle alcohol, and we know there are 22 year olds who aren't. So what good is an arbitrarily chosen drinking age anyway? Well, whether we disagree on 21 vs 19, hopefully we all agree that it should be higher than 14.

And with magazine sizes, I realize it's an arbitrary line to draw. Why is 5 ok but 6 isn't? I don't know why that particular number was chosen. But there should be a line somewhere, and I feel that the line should someplace well below 30 rounds.

Ahh, but the said guards aren’t really different then you or I………They guard money, I purport to the ability of guarding oneself legally.

The guards, while carrying large boxes of money around, are inviting targets for violence. Presumably they don't get to wear their guns when they're at the bar after their shift is over. Also, their guns are on display, which probably has a strong deterrent effect on would-be attackers.

Maybe there's an argument to be made that if citizens wore guns, it would have a deterrent effect on violence. I don't really want to get into that... but I do think that people who are allowed to carry guns should have their guns visible, not concealed.

Now as a reasonable person with an interest in firearms, can you see any intelligent reason why a handgun in .25 or .32 ACP calibers should be banned? Or how about a Smith & Wesson .38 Special revolver with a 4” barrel being more dangerous then the same gun with a barrel over 4.2”? Or how are Government will allow people to own a fully functioning AK-47 or an Uzi, but not allow them to use them, like other guns, safely at a range?

My firearms instructor mentioned the ban on .25 and .32 handguns; he believes the stated rational for the ban was complete BS. He believes the ban was simply an experiment to see if they could do it.

Like I said prior, I've no problem with requiring a licence, but how they categorize guns, as demonstrated by my above example with the 12.6 class was nothing more than an attempt at gradual confiscation of said guns………it just might take a couple of decades until all the old farts die off…………

By setting the restricted barrel length at 4.2” inches they prohibited nearly 60-70% of all handguns, mostly old revolvers, in the mid 90s……… What’s next? A ban on all handguns with a capacity over 7 rounds? Sounds far fetched? New York State just did it……

I don't know why 4.5" is ok but 4.2" is not ok, but there should be a line somewhere.

-k

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Derek L

To me it just sounds like bean-counters finding ways to increase the margins.

First it's laying off all the experienced Marlin employees and consolidating production at one factory. Then it's cutting costs there too. Then it'll be finding a cheaper factory to build guns at. Maybe they can get a factory in Brazil or Korea to build the same guns for cheaper. "We've got the blueprints; what else do we need?"

Exactly, and most firearms manufactures are guilty of that to some degree………….In my view, the ones that have stayed true to their storied reputations have been namely Ruger, Smith & Wesson, Colt and Beretta…………No surprise I recommend said makers products frequently.

If I was in charge of such things, I think I'd require a more permanent method of reducing the magazine than a rivet. Nonetheless, I have a hard time picturing the guy who's planning a massacre settling on the idea of an SVT40 with unpinned magazines as the optimum way of getting bullets away in a hurry. The magazines are hard to find, expensive, brick-heavy even when empty, and only hold 10 shots anyway. And the bullets themselves weigh twice as much as .223 bullets.

Now, contrast that with the light synthetic 30-shot .223 magazines that are available. It's conceivable that a guy could carry enough ammunition to wipe out every person in a school in his backpack, and it's conceivable that he could kill everybody in a classroom without stopping to reload.

One the inverse, you could purchase two SVT-40s and over 1000 rounds for less then one would pay for a bottom end AR-15 in Canada……….Not to mention, the 7.62x54R cartridge, unlike the .223, would go through the body armour of an RCMP ERT………

As such, one could surmise that the SVT-40 in the hands of a more experienced shooter, would have the potential to be a more deadly weapon than a AR-15 in the hands of a inexperienced, mentally disturbed teenager……………The key difference being the person holding it………Also of note, since the 80s, “assault style weapons”, per the FBI, have been used in less then 4% of all gun related homicides in the United States……

There has to be a line drawn somewhere. I don't think either of us wants hand-grenades or 50mm cannons or fully-automatic weapons available to the general public. I don't think either of us thinks James Bond pen-guns should be available. And any time lines are drawn, it's arbitrary. Should the drinking age be 21 or 19 or 18? We know there are 17 year olds who are mature enough to handle alcohol, and we know there are 22 year olds who aren't. So what good is an arbitrarily chosen drinking age anyway? Well, whether we disagree on 21 vs 19, hopefully we all agree that it should be higher than 14.

And with magazine sizes, I realize it's an arbitrary line to draw. Why is 5 ok but 6 isn't? I don't know why that particular number was chosen. But there should be a line somewhere, and I feel that the line should someplace well below 30 rounds.

But it wasn’t an arbitrary number, like the intent of the New York capacity limit or barrel lengths in Canada, it was chosen since at the time, gun makers didn’t really make 5 round capacity detachable magazines for semi-auto “assault style weapons”, as such it’s intended purpose was to gradually ban an entire category of firearms………The law was just poorly written by the then Liberal Government……….

Like I’ve said, a pop rivet is all that separates a legal firearm versus an illegal “assault weapon” in Canada……..Clearly legal gun owners will obey said laws and criminals won’t, and even if you required all magazines to have a more permanent weld or something, then criminals would just smuggle in higher capacity magazines………..

The gun grabbers solution then, ban all firearms that take a detachable magazine……….And would that deter criminals from obtaining firearms, like our current law already, no of course not……….With the only result, further limiting what legal owners, like you and me, can own………

You give the anti gun folk an inch, they’ll take a mile……….And brace yourself, the antis are already drawing parallels between the AK-47 and your new unrestricted SKS, fore they share the same cartridge and a very similar gas system, and with a couple of screw drivers and a file, can be made to accept “military style high capacity magazines” …………Why does Kimmy need a rifle that can rapidly fire 5 rounds with just the pull of the trigger and could easily be turned into a deadly AK-47 style, high power “assault rifle” ………Just saying, said calls will be along soon……….ALCAN hats or not.

I might come across as a tin-foil hatter, but remember, when I was around your age group, high capacity magazines and ownership of actual assault rifles here was perfectly legal………Now I don’t know how well you remember the 1980s, but Marc Lepine aside, people weren’t killing people in Canada left, right and center with such firearms…………

Gun Homicides have been dropping since the 70s, but I would attribute that to the FAC, then the PAL/RPAL programs, not what type of guns people can own.

The guards, while carrying large boxes of money around, are inviting targets for violence. Presumably they don't get to wear their guns when they're at the bar after their shift is over. Also, their guns are on display, which probably has a strong deterrent effect on would-be attackers.

Maybe there's an argument to be made that if citizens wore guns, it would have a deterrent effect on violence. I don't really want to get into that... but I do think that people who are allowed to carry guns should have their guns visible, not concealed.

Fair enough

My firearms instructor mentioned the ban on .25 and .32 handguns; he believes the stated rational for the ban was complete BS. He believes the ban was simply an experiment to see if they could do it.

And he would be right.........Ever hear of the term:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWBoeY0AAec

That was used back then, just like the term "Assault Rifles" are used today.....

I don't know why 4.5" is ok but 4.2" is not ok, but there should be a line somewhere.

For barrel length? A 5” 1911 can be concealed just as well as a 3.9” Walter PPK in .32ACP………James Bond aside, what gun would you feel could do more damage?

Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I've noticed about the TT-33 is that it's ... ugly.

I found a website for a Hungarian dude who can do something about that with these swank custom wood grips.

tt33-wrap-around-wattle-red-checkered-1.jpg

Several different styles and numerous kinds of wood available. Purists might be offended, but I think they're pretty sweet. And you could return the gun to factory original condition in 30 seconds if you felt like it.

-k

Link to post
Share on other sites

One the inverse, you could purchase two SVT-40s and over 1000 rounds for less then one would pay for a bottom end AR-15 in Canada……….Not to mention, the 7.62x54R cartridge, unlike the .223, would go through the body armour of an RCMP ERT………

As such, one could surmise that the SVT-40 in the hands of a more experienced shooter, would have the potential to be a more deadly weapon than a AR-15 in the hands of a inexperienced, mentally disturbed teenager……………The key difference being the person holding it………

I don't think the appropriate comparison to make is WWII surplus in the hands of an experienced shooter vs modern "black guns" in the hands of an inexperienced shooter. I think a more appropriate comparison would be WWII surplus in the hands of an inexperienced shooter vs modern "black guns" in the hands of an inexperienced shooter.

I think modern high-tech weaponry made it a lot easier for Adam Lanza to kill a lot of people.

Weight is an issue. An SVT-40 weighs 9 pounds. And you're going to carry a bunch of heavy ammo to go with that beast too. Lets say a 9 pound gun and 20 pounds of ammo? The guy with the 5 pound gun only needs about 10 pounds to take as many shots. 29 pounds vs 15 pounds might not sound like a big deal, but as somebody who sometimes backpacks, I'm telling you, it's a big deal. The extra weight saps your energy and reduces your agility and slows you down very quickly. I have been backpacking with people who assured me that their packs were light and they could easily handle the weight, but got tired out way quicker than they expected.

Ease of operation is an issue. You're inexperienced, you're amped up on adrenaline, you're fatigued, you're sweating, you're on the lookout for everything in your environment, your heart is racing, and you have to feed a stripper clip into your rifle every 5 shots? You're *going* to screw up. Maybe not the first time, maybe not the second, but you're going to screw up. I screwed up in the comfort of my living-room the other day. Didn't have the snap-cap fully seated, it didn't line up with the chamber, and I had to remove it by hand. If that happens during your rampage, your targets are going to escape or they'll tackle you. It's *not* going to be as easy as it is when you're shooting at the range. If he has to reload every 5 shots, he's got 6 times as many chances to screw up than he has with a 30-round magazine. Or 6 times as many chances for his targets to escape or attack him.

Also of note, since the 80s, “assault style weapons”, per the FBI, have been used in less then 4% of all gun related homicides in the United States……

I don't think anybody is under the impression that these mass-shooting rampages are the typical form of gun homicide. I don't think a ban on high-capacity magazines would have any effect on single-victim slayings, which I imagine are the vast majority of gun homicides. But I think it would make it harder for a would-be mass-murderer to kill so many people.

Like I’ve said, a pop rivet is all that separates a legal firearm versus an illegal “assault weapon” in Canada……..Clearly legal gun owners will obey said laws and criminals won’t, and even if you required all magazines to have a more permanent weld or something, then criminals would just smuggle in higher capacity magazines………..

Well, it's been noted that Adam's mom obtained her weapons legally. Does it seem likely that she'd have altered her magazines or bought illegal magazines to go with them? Does Adam Lanza seem like the kind of guy who'd have the underworld connections to smuggle in illegal magazines? Guys like Adam Lanza and Kimveer Gill and Marc Lepine Kliebold and Harris and so-on) don't seem like they'd have many connections outside of their World of Warcraft games.

The gun grabbers solution then, ban all firearms that take a detachable magazine……….And would that deter criminals from obtaining firearms, like our current law already, no of course not……….With the only result, further limiting what legal owners, like you and me, can own………

I don't think that logic applies to these guys, though. Certainly a new law isn't going to keep the local chapter of the Sons of Anarchy Motorcycle Club from getting their hands on AR15s. But the Sons of Anarchy aren't going to show up at a school to wipe out the students. If they kill somebody, it's a good bet that it's other criminals. It's mistaken logic to say that a guy who wants to go on a rampage is a criminal so he can get illegal guns just as easily as career criminals like outlaw bikers. The guys who are going on these rampages seem to be isolated loners who probably have *less* ability to obtain contraband than the average person.

You give the anti gun folk an inch, they’ll take a mile……….And brace yourself, the antis are already drawing parallels between the AK-47 and your new unrestricted SKS, fore they share the same cartridge and a very similar gas system, and with a couple of screw drivers and a file, can be made to accept “military style high capacity magazines” …………Why does Kimmy need a rifle that can rapidly fire 5 rounds with just the pull of the trigger and could easily be turned into a deadly AK-47 style, high power “assault rifle” ………Just saying, said calls will be along soon……….ALCAN hats or not.

I don't buy the slippery-slope theory that some of the gun-rights people are making. I agree that some of the distinctions being made are naive or just plain stupid, but I think the flip side of the coin is people who are saying "If we give up our 30-round magazines, pretty soon all we'll have left is slingshots!"

I think that kind of talk makes people think gun-owners are crazy. I think trying to argue that people *need* 30-round magazines makes people think gun-owners are crazy. I think arguing that any concessions at all will lead to confiscation makes people think gun-owners are crazy. I think the loud-mouths who are causing the general public to think gun-owners are crazy are doing more harm to their own cause than the do-gooders they claim to oppose.

For barrel length? A 5” 1911 can be concealed just as well as a 3.9” Walter PPK in .32ACP………James Bond aside, what gun would you feel could do more damage?

Unless you're a moose or a sumo-wrestler, I suspect either would kill you equally well. I feel the more dangerous is whichever is easiest to smuggle into someplace where it had not ought to be. Perhaps either of those guns would be found with a half-thorough pat-down, but a derringer probably wouldn't be. A line ought to be drawn somewhere, and it ought to be drawn somewhere before derringer-sized pistols, or some other specialized weapon that comes in a low-profile form-factor that could be mistaken for a cell-phone or a cigarette lighter.

-k

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Derek L

One thing I've noticed about the TT-33 is that it's ... ugly.

I found a website for a Hungarian dude who can do something about that with these swank custom wood grips.

tt33-wrap-around-wattle-red-checkered-1.jpg

Several different styles and numerous kinds of wood available. Purists might be offended, but I think they're pretty sweet. And you could return the gun to factory original condition in 30 seconds if you felt like it.

-k

I like the the 1911 Rosewoodish grips:

tt33-1911-2.jpg

But $72 dollar grips......ouch

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Derek L

I don't think the appropriate comparison to make is WWII surplus in the hands of an experienced shooter vs modern "black guns" in the hands of an inexperienced shooter. I think a more appropriate comparison would be WWII surplus in the hands of an inexperienced shooter vs modern "black guns" in the hands of an inexperienced shooter.

I think modern high-tech weaponry made it a lot easier for Adam Lanza to kill a lot of people.

Weight is an issue. An SVT-40 weighs 9 pounds. And you're going to carry a bunch of heavy ammo to go with that beast too. Lets say a 9 pound gun and 20 pounds of ammo? The guy with the 5 pound gun only needs about 10 pounds to take as many shots. 29 pounds vs 15 pounds might not sound like a big deal, but as somebody who sometimes backpacks, I'm telling you, it's a big deal. The extra weight saps your energy and reduces your agility and slows you down very quickly. I have been backpacking with people who assured me that their packs were light and they could easily handle the weight, but got tired out way quicker than they expected.

Ease of operation is an issue. You're inexperienced, you're amped up on adrenaline, you're fatigued, you're sweating, you're on the lookout for everything in your environment, your heart is racing, and you have to feed a stripper clip into your rifle every 5 shots? You're *going* to screw up. Maybe not the first time, maybe not the second, but you're going to screw up. I screwed up in the comfort of my living-room the other day. Didn't have the snap-cap fully seated, it didn't line up with the chamber, and I had to remove it by hand. If that happens during your rampage, your targets are going to escape or they'll tackle you. It's *not* going to be as easy as it is when you're shooting at the range. If he has to reload every 5 shots, he's got 6 times as many chances to screw up than he has with a 30-round magazine. Or 6 times as many chances for his targets to escape or attack him.

An AK-47 ways weighs over 10 pounds loaded, and the average soviet soldier would carry 8 additional 30 round mags or 6 40 round mags, each weighing ~1 ½ lbs…..22-23 lbs for 270-80 rounds………to say nothing of body armour and all the other kit a soldier might want to carry into battle….

I don't think anybody is under the impression that these mass-shooting rampages are the typical form of gun homicide. I don't think a ban on high-capacity magazines would have any effect on single-victim slayings, which I imagine are the vast majority of gun homicides. But I think it would make it harder for a would-be mass-murderer to kill so many people.

Require a gun licence to purchase magazines then……..or better yet, ensure the nut bars don’t get gun licences.

Realistically is an unarmed Kimmy going to tackle a guy with a AR-15 with a 5 round mag, but not a 30 round mag? Remember, to reload and put a round in the chamber of an AR-15 style rifle is measured in seconds…….4-6 seconds from a chest rig.

Well, it's been noted that Adam's mom obtained her weapons legally. Does it seem likely that she'd have altered her magazines or bought illegal magazines to go with them? Does Adam Lanza seem like the kind of guy who'd have the underworld connections to smuggle in illegal magazines? Guys like Adam Lanza and Kimveer Gill and Marc Lepine Kliebold and Harris and so-on) don't seem like they'd have many connections outside of their World of Warcraft games.

Perhaps she did get her guns legally, but you have to question, if she was trying to have her son committed, why would she have any guns accessible to him?

I don't think that logic applies to these guys, though. Certainly a new law isn't going to keep the local chapter of the Sons of Anarchy Motorcycle Club from getting their hands on AR15s. But the Sons of Anarchy aren't going to show up at a school to wipe out the students. If they kill somebody, it's a good bet that it's other criminals. It's mistaken logic to say that a guy who wants to go on a rampage is a criminal so he can get illegal guns just as easily as career criminals like outlaw bikers. The guys who are going on these rampages seem to be isolated loners who probably have *less* ability to obtain contraband than the average person.

Sure, but shouldn’t we ensure that these fellows don’t get guns at all?

I don't buy the slippery-slope theory that some of the gun-rights people are making. I agree that some of the distinctions being made are naive or just plain stupid, but I think the flip side of the coin is people who are saying "If we give up our 30-round magazines, pretty soon all we'll have left is slingshots!"

I think that kind of talk makes people think gun-owners are crazy. I think trying to argue that people *need* 30-round magazines makes people think gun-owners are crazy. I think arguing that any concessions at all will lead to confiscation makes people think gun-owners are crazy. I think the loud-mouths who are causing the general public to think gun-owners are crazy are doing more harm to their own cause than the do-gooders they claim to oppose.

Well said “theory” is based on precedent here in Canada……….The United Kingdom…….Australia….New York, California and Illinois………

"I came to Ottawa last year, with the firm belief that the only people in Canada who should have firearms are police officers and the military."

- former Justice Minister Alan Rock

"...disarming the Canadian public is part of the new humanitarian social agenda."

- Foreign Affairs Minister Lloyd Axeworthy at a Gun Control conference in Oslo, Norway in 1998.

"Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. Prohibition of private firearms is the goal."

- Attorney General Janet Reno

"A system of licensing and registration, is the perfect device to deny gun ownership to the bourgeoisie."

- Vladimir Lenin

now excuse me:

Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the the 1911 Rosewoodish grips:

But $72 dollar grips......ouch

Well, considering a TT-33 can be had for $200 you could put $70 grips on it and it's still a more affordable pistol than anything else you could buy, even a Norinco knock-off.

Something else I was noticing about the TT-33... that ammunition appears to be pretty powerful. The big case and smallish bullet generates rifle-like muzzle velocity. The specs I'm looking at say the bullet has at least as much energy as a 9x19mm.

-k

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Derek L

Well, considering a TT-33 can be had for $200 you could put $70 grips on it and it's still a more affordable pistol than anything else you could buy, even a Norinco knock-off.

For sure…….Hogue grips are really good……….I bought a set of Rosewood grips for my GP-100.……..For some of their wood grips with speciality woods, expect to wait a couple of months though.

Something else I was noticing about the TT-33... that ammunition appears to be pretty powerful. The big case and smallish bullet generates rifle-like muzzle velocity. The specs I'm looking at say the bullet has at least as much energy as a 9x19mm.

-k

Yeah, it is a big gun and a piggish cartridge……..The gun is a Soviet knockoff of the 1911.……..and the cartridge’s performance is somewhere between .40 S&W and .357 SIG……only a lot cheaper (When you can find the ammo)

Link to post
Share on other sites

An AK-47 ways weighs over 10 pounds loaded, and the average soviet soldier would carry 8 additional 30 round mags or 6 40 round mags, each weighing ~1 ½ lbs…..22-23 lbs for 270-80 rounds………to say nothing of body armour and all the other kit a soldier might want to carry into battle….

What a trained full-time soldier can comfortably carry into battle and what a basement dwelling slob could carry on the first and only "combat mission" of his life are two different things.

Require a gun licence to purchase magazines then……..or better yet, ensure the nut bars don’t get gun licences.

I'm certainly all for careful screening.

Realistically is an unarmed Kimmy going to tackle a guy with a AR-15 with a 5 round mag, but not a 30 round mag?

If the gun is loaded and he's ready to shoot? Nope. If he's trying to reload? Absolutely. I've been sparring with a boxing instructor for 5 years, I've got a whole lifetime of judo, I'm quick and strong. I'm worth my weight in wildcats. In that situation I'd way rather take my chances in hand to hand than wait for him to reload.

If he's got a 5 round magazine, I have 6 times the opportunity to put the fists of karma on his chin that I'd have if he's got a 30-round magazine.

Remember, to reload and put a round in the chamber of an AR-15 style rifle is measured in seconds…….4-6 seconds from a chest rig.

A trained and experienced soldier with modern weaponry that's designed to maximize ease and speed of use can probably reload in a couple of seconds. An experienced teenager addled from stress and adrenaline probably takes twice as long or more to reload with the same equipment. The same teenager trying to operate equipment that isn't designed for optimum combat ergonomics probably takes twice as long again.

This is modern combat equipment that was designed with the express goal of being as efficient as possible to use in a combat situation. Lighter, less fatiguing. Faster and easier to load. More shots. Faster to shoulder and point. Easier and quicker to aim. The same attributes that make these guns the best weapons for soldiers also make them the best weapons for a shooting spree.

You're trying to convince me that these guns are not really any more dangerous than the WWII rifles I've got in my cabinet. But these modern guns are full of improvements that resulted from lessons learned the hard way by soldiers using guns like the ones in my cabinet. Of course they're much better at that purpose: they've got 3+ wars worth of improvements over my guns.

And compared to typical hunting rifles that are ergonomically speaking no different from hunting rifles of 100 years ago, there's no comparison.

Perhaps she did get her guns legally, but you have to question, if she was trying to have her son committed, why would she have any guns accessible to him?

It certainly doesn't seem very smart on her part, no question.

"I came to Ottawa last year, with the firm belief that the only people in Canada who should have firearms are police officers and the military."

- former Justice Minister Alan Rock

"...disarming the Canadian public is part of the new humanitarian social agenda."

- Foreign Affairs Minister Lloyd Axeworthy at a Gun Control conference in Oslo, Norway in 1998.

"Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. Prohibition of private firearms is the goal."

- Attorney General Janet Reno

"A system of licensing and registration, is the perfect device to deny gun ownership to the bourgeoisie."

- Vladimir Lenin

I would rather have those guys be the ones who look like fanatics who are unable to make reasonable compromise. Right now our side is the ones who look like fanatics unable to make reasonable compromise, and it's going to hurt us.

-k

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, it is a big gun and a piggish cartridge……..The gun is a Soviet knockoff of the 1911.……..and the cartridge’s performance is somewhere between .40 S&W and .357 SIG……only a lot cheaper (When you can find the ammo)

What's the deal with 40 S&W? I gather it's popular with law enforcement types. What are it's benefits, compared to say 9x19 or 357 mag?

-k

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Derek L

What a trained full-time soldier can comfortably carry into battle and what a basement dwelling slob could carry on the first and only "combat mission" of his life are two different things.

The Batman shooter carried a Beta Mag……..Lanza, I’m not so sure

If the gun is loaded and he's ready to shoot? Nope. If he's trying to reload? Absolutely. I've been sparring with a boxing instructor for 5 years, I've got a whole lifetime of judo, I'm quick and strong. I'm worth my weight in wildcats. In that situation I'd way rather take my chances in hand to hand than wait for him to reload.

If he's got a 5 round magazine, I have 6 times the opportunity to put the fists of karma on his chin that I'd have if he's got a 30-round magazine.

Kimmy Bourne?

In my books, you're:

Chuck-Norris-Approved-300x289.png

biggrin.png

A trained and experienced soldier with modern weaponry that's designed to maximize ease and speed of use can probably reload in a couple of seconds. An experienced teenager addled from stress and adrenaline probably takes twice as long or more to reload with the same equipment. The same teenager trying to operate equipment that isn't designed for optimum combat ergonomics probably takes twice as long again.

A teenager, with just 7-8 weeks of training was sent to Vietnam………And expected to reload his M-16 rather fast when fighting others………Perhaps we can spot nutbar a few seconds when shooting unarmed adults and children.

This is modern combat equipment that was designed with the express goal of being as efficient as possible to use in a combat situation. Lighter, less fatiguing. Faster and easier to load. More shots. Faster to shoulder and point. Easier and quicker to aim. The same attributes that make these guns the best weapons for soldiers also make them the best weapons for a shooting spree.

You're trying to convince me that these guns are not really any more dangerous than the WWII rifles I've got in my cabinet. But these modern guns are full of improvements that resulted from lessons learned the hard way by soldiers using guns like the ones in my cabinet. Of course they're much better at that purpose: they've got 3+ wars worth of improvements over my guns.

And compared to typical hunting rifles that are ergonomically speaking no different from hunting rifles of 100 years ago, there's no comparison.

The NVA and Cong made out all right with their SKS……….And the M-16’s basic operating mechanisms, are “fresh” 1950s technology………

I don’t like the school kids odds if he had of been armed with a M1 Carbine, Grease gun or a Thompson as opposed to an AR-15.……..

I would rather have those guys be the ones who look like fanatics who are unable to make reasonable compromise. Right now our side is the ones who look like fanatics unable to make reasonable compromise, and it's going to hurt us.

-k

Our side has lots of money and is inundated with people that actually vote…………As I’ve said prior, I don’t own an AR-15, yet based on precedence, I know that once they’ve taken those away, they’ll be after the rest of the semi-auto rifles, shotguns and handguns………..Then it will be the pumps and revolvers……….Then that old bolt action starts looking like a “sniper rifle”……….

That’s their game……….

And of note, the SKS is on the AWB II “list”……….

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Derek L

What's the deal with 40 S&W? I gather it's popular with law enforcement types. What are it's benefits, compared to say 9x19 or 357 mag?

-k

.40 S&W is a moderately more powerful cartridge then a 9mm, well also not being overly “bulky” (You can load 9mm into some handguns .40 S&W mags, then put said mags in said 9mm gun) thus not sacrificing magazine capacity, like a gun chambered in .45ACP………

.357 SIG is even more powerful than a .40 S&W, well still not sacrificing as much capacity like a .45ACP.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've made my own rail gun that can shoot a projectile at around Mach 2...

Unfortunately to work it has to be hooked up to a capacitor bank that weighs about 200 lbs :(

And reloading it takes at least a few minutes as you carefully affix a new projectile to the rails after making sure the lethal electrical energy is discharged from the cap bank.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Derek L

Our side has lots of money and is inundated with people that actually vote…………As I’ve said prior, I don’t own an AR-15, yet based on precedence, I know that once they’ve taken those away, they’ll be after the rest of the semi-auto rifles, shotguns and handguns………..Then it will be the pumps and revolvers……….Then that old bolt action starts looking like a “sniper rifle”……….

That’s their game……….

A well reasoned video on why gun rights folks win more political battles then they lose:

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've made my own rail gun that can shoot a projectile at around Mach 2...

Unfortunately to work it has to be hooked up to a capacitor bank that weighs about 200 lbs sad.png

And reloading it takes at least a few minutes as you carefully affix a new projectile to the rails after making sure the lethal electrical energy is discharged from the cap bank.

I think we need to hear more about this project! How big of a projectile are we talking about?

I've seen a couple of neat "coilgun" projects on Youtube... I'm pretty sure these don't get anywhere close to Mach 2.

I'm not very clear on the difference between a railgun and a coilgun.

-k

Link to post
Share on other sites

A railgun is literally two rails, with the projectile (or armature that the projectile is attached to) forming the electrical path between the two rails. A current flows through the rails, generating a magnetic field, and this accelerates the projectile with the Lorentz [ I x B ]force.

Railgun:

railgun-7.gif

In contrast, a coilgun has a series of coils which are energized in a precisely timed way to accelerate a ferromagnetic (iron, etc) projectile which is pulled towards the coils by the magnetic field. Coilgun:

Coilgun_animation.gif

A coilgun is more complex to build because you have to get the timing of the coils firing right, which means you need multiple electronically controlled switches to the different coils. A railgun just needs one switch, to dump capacitor bank energy through the rails, and there is no precision timing involved in a simple railgun.

The main limitation to a typical hobbyist railgun/coilgun is the amount of energy that can be dumped through the rails/coils. A typical hobbyist will be working with some low voltage capacitors that can store at most a few hundred Joules of energy. Fortunately, I have a $20,000 high voltage 50 kJ cap bank at work that I can play with smile.png

The actual railgun itself is fairly simple and cheap to build compared to the capacitor bank, power supply required to charge it, and switch to short the cap bank across the rails without getting destroyed due to the high currents.

A simple railgun is precisely 50% efficient in accelerating a projectile (half the capacitor bank energy that is dumped through the rails goes into the kinetic energy of the projectile). For a 0.05 kg projectile (about the mass of a bullet), you can figure out how quickly it will go out of the railgun:

0.5 E = 0.5 mV^2

where E is the cap bank energy, m is the projectile mass, and V is the velocity the projectile reaches. In this case, a 50 kJ cap bank will accelerate a 50 gram bullet to ~1,000 m/s (about Mach 3). This doesn't take into account losses due to air resistance, friction, etc. Based on my empirical test of the system, I got about Mach 2 instead, and the differences is due to the above mentioned losses. My projectile was a very simple metal cylinder with two "wings" sticking out of it to lie on the rails.

The US military does significant research on railguns, with some efforts approaching deployment readiness. The advantage of railguns is you can achieve projectile velocities substantially higher than chemical explosive driven projectiles. Military railguns can achieve around Mach 10 muzzle velocity. Here's a photo of a military railgun test in 2008. The explosion appearance is just the ionization of the air in the projectile wake.

285px-Railgun_usnavy_2008.jpg

Edited by Bonam
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Tell a friend

    Love Political Discussion Forums? Tell a friend!
×
×
  • Create New...