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August1991

Windows 8: Three Reasons to Hate

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I'm no Linux kid, or an Apple Latte sophisticate. I generally like Microsoft.

I have just started to use this new OS, (since I just bought a new PC).

I dislike Windows 8 (so far) for four reasons.

1. It has asked me who I am, and requires my email address. (If I buy a toaster, or even a car, the seller does not need to know I am - other than for a warranty.)

2. It seems designed for tablets. I use my computer for work, and I don't like touchpads in general.

3. It seems designed for idiots like my sister - an Apple user, who treats a computer as a toaster. (Windows 8 breaks a cardinal rule of Microsoft software: it's not optionable.)

====

But here's my main reason:

It seems to present itself according to money it can earn. (You know how Google Searches seem to put certain sites on top... or how Google Ads somehow infiltrate web screens.) Well, Windows 8 seems designed to do the same thing. With Windows 8, Microsoft is no longer an OS or a toaster: with Windows 8, it now controls your computer to sell your eyeballs

Microsoft's operating system (Windows 8) sells access to eyeballs.

Talk about dropping the ball.

Edited by August1991

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1. It has asked me who I am, and requires my email address.

Then create one which you use only for Windows 8 - its free.

It seems designed for tablets. I use my computer for work, and I don't like touchpads in general.

Touch screens are the way of the future and Microsoft needed a credible solution. They have now one. People using desktops can still use the Windows 7 interface. Where MS dropped the ball is not allowing the Windows 7 Start Menu to be enabled without a third party add on. This annoys me too.

It seems designed for idiots like my sister, who treats a computer as a toaster.

The design principles that made Steve Jobs extremely successful.

Microsoft is selling access - eyeballs - to its operating system.

PC sales are declining - MS can see the writing on the wall. It needs new revenue streams or it will die.

There are people who lament the rise of e-books and they are not wrong about the virtues of physical books. But those virtues are becoming increasingly irrelevant as society changes. The same will happen to the PC.

Edited by TimG

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Reason why I love window 8.

1) You can personalized your computer to fit your need.

2) Shutting down and starting the computer is substantially faster than window 8.

3) Window 8 consumes less energy than the previous window.

4) dozens of bugs from window 7 are patched.

5) Integrative security system already built in window 8.

6) You have access to the app store.

7) You can easily switch between files and website with a swipe of a finger or hovering of the mouse.

That is all I can think of atm.

That is all that comes to my mind at the moment.

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Then create one which you use only for Windows 8 - its free.

Extra hassle that people dont need.

Touch screens are the way of the future and Microsoft needed a credible solution. They have now one. People using desktops can still use the Windows 7 interface. Where MS dropped the ball is not allowing the Windows 7 Start Menu to be enabled without a third party add on. This annoys me too.

Touch screens are most definitely NOT the way of the future for productivity applications. They are good for consuming content, not for creating it. The input speed of a keyboard and mouse is unmatched by any touchscreen interface, by orders of magnitude.

There are people who lament the rise of e-books and they are not wrong about the virtues of physical books. But those virtues are becoming increasingly irrelevant as society changes. The same will happen to the PC.

PC sales are declining - MS can see the writing on the wall. It needs new revenue streams or it will die.

Workstations for productive use are not going anywhere until we have effective mind-machine interfaces (10-15 years probably). In the meanwhile, there remains plenty of money to be made in that market space.

Windows 8 is just like Vista, 2000, ME, etc. Microsoft tends to alternate good windows releases with bad ones. ME bad, XP good, Vista bad, Win 7 good, Win 8 bad. People buying new PCs or reinstalling OSs on old ones should stick with Windows 7 until Windows 9 comes out.

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Reason why I love window 8.

1) You can personalized your computer to fit your need.

2) Shutting down and starting the computer is substantially faster than window 8.

3) Window 8 consumes less energy than the previous window.

4) dozens of bugs from window 7 are patched.

5) Integrative security system already built in window 8.

6) You have access to the app store.

7) You can easily switch between files and website with a swipe of a finger or hovering of the mouse.

That is all I can think of atm.

That is all that comes to my mind at the moment.

1) Already available on all previous versions of windows, that's what windows is all about and always has been

2) Ok

3) Not important in a desktop application

4) Such as? Windows 7 was already plenty stable and bug-free for general use

5) What security systems? These tend to just slow things down and get in the way

6) It's called the internet

7) What does that even mean? You can already easily switch between any applications including a file browser and a web browser in prior versions of windows

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Touch screens are most definitely NOT the way of the future for productivity applications. They are good for consuming content, not for creating it.

How many consumers are there vs. creators? (hint: posting to twitter does not count for this definition of a 'creator').

10 to 1?

I agree that Windows 7 is much better for creators of content but Microsoft's business will only survive if it provides an option for consumers.

I also agree that qwerty keyboards will be with us for a long time to come.

Once thing to remember is Windows 8 is not for everyone. MS tried to make an all in one OS and failed on that front.

But people have multiple devices - I have a desktop running Windows 7 and will not upgrade.

My laptop is Windows 8 with a touch screen.

I also have a iPad and an Android smart phone.

Each device has its purpose and serves that purpose well for me.

Edited by TimG

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I don't get why people who like Windows 7 would have a problem with Windows 8. If you ignore the "Metro" functionality, it's the same operating system. And it's not hard to get your PC to boot straight to desktop and ignore the "Metro" functionality. I have no complaints at all about Windows 8.

How many consumers are there vs. creators? (hint: posting to twitter does not count for this definition of a 'creator').

10 to 1?

In this context, a "creator" is anybody who's doing anything productive, and a "consumer" is anybody who is doing something passive. A lot of time spent on the computer is passive-- watching videos, browsing web-pages, whatever-- and a touch/tablet interface is fine for that. But almost all of us become "creators" at times. Whether you're doing your taxes or finances on a spreadsheet, or writing a term-paper or your memoirs, or designing a program or a web-page or doing CAD or graphics or video editing... touchscreen interfaces suck at all of these activities. I write; I would never use a touchscreen keyboard for doing word-processing. I can't imagine what kind of masochist might consider doing a spreadsheet on a table. Tablets might be the way of the future... but not for people who use their computers for anything productive. That includes almost everybody who works at a desk.

-k

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I don't get why people who like Windows 7 would have a problem with Windows 8. If you ignore the "Metro" functionality, it's the same operating system.

I felt the same - but I have a few friends and family that have become increasingly frustrated with it after giving it a fair effort to get over the learning curve so I have to conclude that there are issues (first rule of UI design: don't blame the user if they can't use your interface).

A lot of time spent on the computer is passive-- watching videos, browsing web-pages, whatever-- and a touch/tablet interface is fine for that. But almost all of us become "creators" at times. Whether you're doing your taxes or finances on a spreadsheet, or writing a term-paper or your memoirs, or designing a program or a web-page or doing CAD or graphics or video editing... touchscreen interfaces suck at all of these activities.

It is the question of using the right tool for the right job. I use my PC and my tablet at the same time because the tablet is better for some tasks. It used to be every task had to be done with a keyboard and a mouse. The choice we have today is better.

Edited by TimG

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I felt the same - but I have a few friends and family that have become increasingly frustrated with it after giving it a fair effort to get over the learning curve so I have to conclude that there are issues (first rule of UI design: don't blame the user if they can't use your interface).

Indeed. I remember I tried it out when it could be downloaded for free as a release candidate just prior to release. I don't even remember what the issues were, but I remember it being a pain in the rectal region to do the simple tasks I was used to from prior versions of windows. I tried it for about 2-3 hours and it still took more time and more actions to do the same things I used to do in Win7. If someone who is used to windows and has used every single release of windows since 3.1 feels impeded by your new operating system rather than helped, you've screwed up.

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I'm curious why your sister is an idiot for treating her computer like a toaster? I've used DOS, Windows 3.1, up to Windows 7. I've used different builds of Linux (Ubuntu and Red Hat [back in the day]). I've never had a whole lot of exposure to Apple. So when I bought my newest computer, I bought an Apple. I don't see much of a difference between using a PC or a Mac. Frankly, I like the Mac because the software has less bloat and it seems to run a lot smoother. What I don't understand is this idea that a computer is not a toaster. It's a tool, as is a toaster. If it makes it more difficult for you to get the job done, then it's not a very good tool. If your sister finds it easier and more convenient to use a Mac, then I don't understand the problem. Anyway, computers are just means to an end. They're not ends in themselves, which is why I can't understand brand fanatics. I say that despite owning many Apple products. I buy them now because I just like their functionality better. It's a personal preference. Now that they use Intel processors, I can ran analytic software like Stata or R on my Mac without booting into a Windows environment. With that, I have no use for Windows any more.

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It is the question of using the right tool for the right job. I use my PC and my tablet at the same time because the tablet is better for some tasks. It used to be every task had to be done with a keyboard and a mouse. The choice we have today is better.

About that... You can extend your monitor with an iPad on Macs. I'm sure there's probably apps for Android tablets to do this as well. Kind of a nice feature. There's companies that even specifically make mounting brackets, so you can mount your iPad right next to your monitor.

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I won't be getting into Win 8 at all. Several reasons.

1 - I am not signing up for another email address just so I can use a computer that I bought.

2 - many 3rd party apps will not work on Win 8 unless you buy it all through the Microsoft App Store. I use Steam for gaming and this may not work on a Win 8 platform.

3 - Integrated security software. I prefer to have the option to install whatever security software I want.

I agree with much of what Kimmy said aside that Win 8 is good. Windows 8 would be too restrictive for someone like me who needs an OS that is compatible with the software and hardware I use. I doubt Win 8 will benefit me since it is really geared towards tablets, as it is based on the Windows version for mobile devices. I have not dealt with 8 yet myself, so I really have no idea on what it can or cannot do.

I've seen the trend for some years where the OS developers are getting to be more restrictive in what a user can actually do on their own PC.

Edited by GostHacked

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I agree with the sentiment that Windows seems like it was created solely for use as a tablet OS. It also seems pretty idiot proof which indicates that it limits the amount of customization allowed.

The Surface is a good hybrid of the two. I can see Personal computing going the way of a tablet that can be hooked up to a keyboard and mouse when needed.

I'm actually shocked Google doesn't seem to follow suit with an Android Powered laptop.

Unless you use a computer for creative design purposes, video editing or lots of work processing, Super phones and tablets do a good portion of what people use the internet for.

I rarely see a need to boot up my laptop anymore because my phone accomplishes much of what I can do on the PC. I also use a Desktop computer at work so I don't need to spend a lot of time at home on a computer as well.

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Android would be a perfectly good OS for Desktop computing. I've been told it's pretty much like Linux. They just need the hardware.

The hardware already exists, the OS just need to be coded to support various motherboards and processors. if based on Linux, then the ability is already there.

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The hardware already exists, the OS just need to be coded to support various motherboards and processors. if based on Linux, then the ability is already there.

I guess the desktop computing world just isn't worthwhile for them yet. I know Google is getting into the Video Game Console business with Ouya.

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I guess the desktop computing world just isn't worthwhile for them yet. I know Google is getting into the Video Game Console business with Ouya.

I don't think Google is not going to be able to compete in the desktop market with Mac or Windows.

I bought an Android phone. Glitchy and clunky compared to iOS or Windows 8.

Edited by TimG

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I don't think Google is not going to be able to compete in the desktop market with Mac or Windows.

I bought an Android phone. Glitchy and clunky compared to iOS or Windows 8.

Well your experience is in the minority. Android is obliterating Apple and Windows globally with their devices.

I just got a Jelly Bean update for my phone and it even has a simplified version of Android for people that don't think to tinker with their phone. It's the best mobile platform IMHO.

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I guess the desktop computing world just isn't worthwhile for them yet. I know Google is getting into the Video Game Console business with Ouya.

Google will fail with the gaming console business. vALVE is also looking into it, but I think it's a no go as well.

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Every new Windows release since XP seems to annoy me in some new way.

Vista annoyed the hell out of me. It was a nice attempt in a new direction, however all the new security measures were a pain at first and driver/hardware compatibility was a huge problem.

Win 7 is the best OS Microsoft has ever made. It's stable, compatibility is not an issue. I've crashed it a few times, but I was trying to crash it. Took a lot too. I went from XP to Win 7 and really skipped over Vista.

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This guy more or less nails it:

So now about 15 days in to my ownership of this beast I have a project to complete in Excel. I open my file and proceed to move between cells using the track pad. Suddenly, and without warning, I am kicked out of Excel back to one of the Metro apps I had opened (at this point, I had not discovered how to close these, just minimize them). What? What just happened? I navigate back to Excel, try to remember what I was doing, and… it happens again! This happens about 12 times in the next hour as I am trying to get my work done. I stop trying to work on my project, and do a web search on what could be causing this. I quickly realize that Windows 8 is interpreting the move I am making on my track pad as a ‘swipe’, that is, a request to switch applications. The problem is – even though I now know WHAT is happening, that is no help. If I want to continue using Excel, there is no way to avoid this behavior. I do a web search on “turn off Windows 8 swipes”. I find a number of others with the same question I have – but no answers. (Note: subsequent to returning my laptop, I see this question has been answered. There is a way to turn off swipes, but it involves creating a textfile to edit the Registry!) And try as I might, there seems to be no way to alter my motion so as to avoid triggering the dreaded swipe. I try and try, but it keeps happening, until I am thinking more about when it will happen next than about the work I am trying to get done.

Daily Kos

Edited by August1991

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I don't get why people who like Windows 7 would have a problem with Windows 8. If you ignore the "Metro" functionality, it's the same operating system. And it's not hard to get your PC to boot straight to desktop and ignore the "Metro" functionality.

You have to install 3rd party software (Start8, ClassicShell, RetroUI etc). Kimmy, would people buy a BMW if the response was: "Don't like the steering wheel? A guy down the street will change it for 50 bucks."

Unfortunately, this 3rd party doesn't solve all the problems. Windows 8 creates problems in how (for example) Java works. It's a nightmare. Excel? Word? These are not touch screen/tablet applications.

I have no complaints at all about Windows 8.In this context, a "creator" is anybody who's doing anything productive, and a "consumer" is anybody who is doing something passive. A lot of time spent on the computer is passive-- watching videos, browsing web-pages, whatever-- and a touch/tablet interface is fine for that. But almost all of us become "creators" at times. Whether you're doing your taxes or finances on a spreadsheet, or writing a term-paper or your memoirs, or designing a program or a web-page or doing CAD or graphics or video editing... touchscreen interfaces suck at all of these activities. I write; I would never use a touchscreen keyboard for doing word-processing. I can't imagine what kind of masochist might consider doing a spreadsheet on a table. Tablets might be the way of the future... but not for people who use their computers for anything productive. That includes almost everybody who works at a desk.

Well, I mostly use my computer at a desk. Does Microsoft plan to lose this customer base?

Edited by August1991

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Sorry, Cybercoma, MLW uses Java for quoting and Windows 8 (I suspect, probably for "security" reasons) is making this "posting experience" irritating.

I'm curious why your sister is an idiot for treating her computer like a toaster?

...

It's a tool, as is a toaster. If it makes it more difficult for you to get the job done, then it's not a very good tool. If your sister finds it easier and more convenient to use a Mac, then I don't understand the problem.

A chair is a tool, and so is a gun and an airplane. I get suspicious when someone tries to make an airplane into a tool as easy to use as a toaster.

Full Disclosure: While I have never used a Mac, I have nothing against Apple. Indeed, given Windows 8, I'm simply happy that an alternative exists. (Imagine a world where the State Ministry of Computers dictated that every citizen must adopt and use Windows 8. This sounds absurd but that is how Canada's provinces largely operate their education and health systems.)

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