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August1991

Windows 8: Three Reasons to Hate

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Desktop Personal computing is going to way of the doe-doe bird.

People that say this forget that there is such a thing as work, not just people playing with their gadgets for entertainment at home. Desktops will remain alive and well in the workplace for a good while yet.

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People that say this forget that there is such a thing as work, not just people playing with their gadgets for entertainment at home. Desktops will remain alive and well in the workplace for a good while yet.

Of course. Mouse, Keyboard and Monitor computing will be around for a long while for doing actual work.

But for leisure it's on a steady decline.

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Desktop Personal computing is going to way of the doe-doe bird. Just about everything I can do on my laptop, I can do on my Galaxy S2 LTE. And I don't have to boot up a computer.

I have a 4+ year old Toshiba running Vista. I could have easily updated to Windows 8 for $40 but didn't see a point to it. After a full work day of being on a computer I don't really want to come home and sit infront of a computer.

I think the future of computers would be like the Microsoft Surface. A PC with a Touch Screen. There are Chromebooks being released that are made by Google, I haven't seen one in a store yet but once the prices comes down, I might be interested.

I just picked up an Asus transformer tablet a couple of weeks ago. I was seriously considering a Microsoft Surface, but when I started to look into Windows 8 RT, I quickly realized that i would be better off going with android OS. Without being able to run x86 software or drivers, what's the point? I'm not quite ready to spend $1000 on a tablet that runs the full version of Win8.

I don't think Win 8 RT will survive the tablet battle unless they make it more compatible with Windows 8 full version. they certainly won't be competing heavily in this market until they start offering more apps.

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I was seriously considering a Microsoft Surface, but when I started to look into Windows 8 RT, I quickly realized that i would be better off going with android OS. Without being able to run x86 software or drivers, what's the point? I'm not quite ready to spend $1000 on a tablet that runs the full version of Win8.

I don't think Win 8 RT will survive the tablet battle unless they make it more compatible with Windows 8 full version. they certainly won't be competing heavily in this market until they start offering more apps.

To me, this is an interesting viewpoint.

Years ago (decades ago), I moved everything from a desktop to a laptop. (I think that I bought my last desktop in 1999 or so. I hated having files in different places and decided then that I wanted everything in one place, with occasional backup copies stored to disc.)

I still prefer this method, and a heavy laptop with everything in one place. (As a sideline, I edit video and that requires power and space.)

I don't like this "cloud" idea. Links are slow, not reliable (depends where you travel). I prefer to keep my latest copy with me, on a hard drive that even at 1 TB is ridiculously cheap.

-----

Tablets? I have an eReader. It's a monochrome Kobo that does epub files. For a tablet (portability), I want long battery life. The iPad (or its equivalent) can manage a day or so. My Koboreader survives for about three weeks.

[Yes, I have seen/used an iPad. The iPad graphics are far, far better than my kobo, but that's why I have a powerful laptop. And my eReader, unlike an iPad, doesn't need recharging .]

It seems to me that Intel and Microsoft want to create a tablet that will work like a laptop, and have a long battery life.

I think the design engineers misunderstand how different users use this technology.

FT

Edited by August1991

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August1991.

I have serious concerns with clouds as well. Some articles as of late are reporting that there is not much security when it comes to the cloud. Essentially it's just like online storage, but your data is neither secure or safe.

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This video was made several months ago but its point is still valid:

Wow, I think I will avoid Win8 and tell others as well. This is horrible.!!

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Wow, I think I will avoid Win8 and tell others as well.

I watched this video and I thought it would have some good insights because the guy sounded like he understood UIs but a lot of his issues are because he just does not understand the UI controls in Windows 8.

For example, his entire rant about the touch pad shows he does not understand that:

ONE FINGER = MOVE, TWO FINGERS = SWIPE

Now one could gripe about this UI convention but Macs have been doing this for years and it is much more complicated because three fingers and four fingers do different things as well! When I started using a Mac last year I had get used to using a track pad AND and external mouse because I got sick of trying decipher the distinctions between the different gesture types(simply using an external mouse is not an option because the OS is designed for the swipe interface). So any mud slung at Windows 8 here should also apply to the MacOS.

The main legitimate complaint is that Windows 8 staples together two user interface paradigms and this creates some issues. But claim that the OS is unusable nothing but red meat designed to attract links from people with axes to grind. It does not really help people understand what are actually flaws and what are problems that will be forgotten once one gets used to the new UI conventions.

Edited by TimG

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A few years ago I had an interesting time teaching my elderly aunt to use a mouse driven computer for the first time.

It was a real education in how many of the 'obvious' UI conventions that we take for granted are really not that obvious. We have simply learned the conventions and assume them without thinking. This is why I think consistency is a more important feature in a UI over whether a user will understand them without getting a 10 minute tutorial on how to use the new interface.

Edited by TimG

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A few years ago I had an interesting time teaching my elderly aunt to use a mouse driven computer for the first time.

It was a real education in how many of the 'obvious' UI conventions that we take for granted are really not that obvious. We have simply learned the conventions and assume them without thinking. This is why I think consistency is a more important feature in a UI over whether a user will understand them without getting a 10 minute tutorial on how to use the new interface.

Well see that's been one beef with Windows for me. If it ain't broke, let's try to do something with it anyways. I think they should have just built on Win7 and make it more for mobiles as well. But with win8 it came from the zune and then transferred to tablets and now 'PCs'.

The one thing I prefer is to still have a DVD to install the OS from if everything goes to crap. I'll be hanging on to my copies of Win7 for a while.

One thing a friend told me and I laughed. 'Well with Win 8 you can have more than one app open at a time'. I told him I can already do that on my Win7 PC. I just call them programs. :D

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One thing a friend told me and I laughed. 'Well with Win 8 you can have more than one app open at a time'.

:lol:

I've heard that a few times too. Always cracks me up. More than one "app" open at a time!

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Well see that's been one beef with Windows for me. If it ain't broke, let's try to do something with it anyways.

If you listen to the pundits the PC is dead and MS had to transition to a touch based world. If they had not come out with Windows 8 people would be talking about what a dinosaur MS is. Now they are being criticized for pushing too much change on their user base. Dammed if you do. Dammed if you don't.

MS also has 15 years of experience creating failed OSes that are like windows but not quite (Windows CE, Windows Phone). They knew that the only way for a MS touch based interface to survive is if it was linked to the Windows installed base.

Time will tell but I think MS took a risk and has avoided slide into obsolesce with Windows 8 since it has a credible touch based interface now.

BTW - MS has NOT stopped selling Windows 7. You can buy as many copies as you want.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-CA/windows/products/lifecycle

You can be sure that MS will not stop selling it until its business customers move to Windows 8 or Windows 9.

I suspect there will be a Window 8.1 release in a year or so.

Edited by TimG

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If you listen to the pundits the PC is dead and MS had to transition to a touch based world.

Yeah well those pundits are idiots. All the talkers forget that people use computers for business, not just to vegetate at home starting at a screen with pretty pictures on it. A touch interface can fundamentally not offer the same speed and precision as a mouse and keyboard, and jumbling up your OS with a bunch of excess baggage that the user has to wade through to get to the fundamentals is a bad move. If they couldn't come up with a streamlined and efficient way of coupling the different types of interfaces, they shouldn't have done it.

Anyway, Microsoft has a long and storied history of alternating flops and hits with windows:

ME - bad

XP - good

Vista - bad

7 - good

8 - bad

Hopefully with Windows 9 they'll learn the lessons from 8 and realize that they have to continue to provide products that will work for their business clients rather than being optimized as toys for 3 year olds.

There's such a thing as overgeneralizing. A mobile phone is a different beast than a business desktop, and each should have software optimized for them, rather than one OS that does both poorly.

Edited by Bonam

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If you listen to the pundits the PC is dead and MS had to transition to a touch based world. If they had not come out with Windows 8 people would be talking about what a dinosaur MS is. Now they are being criticized for pushing too much change on their user base. Dammed if you do. Dammed if you don't.

I'll back up Bonam on this. These guys are completely missing how businesses use computers. Most PC users at businesses are considered power users, and a Win 8 interface will simply not work well. Win 8 does not seem to facilitate a power user. But for what it is worth, many businesses are still using Win XP, because the cost to upgrade to a new OS is staggering.

MS also has 15 years of experience creating failed OSes that are like windows but not quite (Windows CE, Windows Phone). They knew that the only way for a MS touch based interface to survive is if it was linked to the Windows installed base.

The Win 8 interface was evolved from the Windows phone OS.

Time will tell but I think MS took a risk and has avoided slide into obsolesce with Windows 8 since it has a credible touch based interface now.

How can they slide into obsolescence, when they practically own the desktop world, in terms of an OS? Edited by GostHacked

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If you listen to the pundits the PC is dead and MS had to transition to a touch based world. If they had not come out with Windows 8 people would be talking about what a dinosaur MS is. Now they are being criticized for pushing too much change on their user base. Dammed if you do. Dammed if you don't.

I don't have much experience with Windows 8, but I feel that Win8RT is a mistake by MS. The majority of the touch screen interfaces currently being sold are running Win8RT, which is NOT Windows 8. It is completely incompatible with Win8 and all Windows legacy software, a real disappointment in my opinion.

I still don't get the point of rolling out an OS that is incompatible with every other version of Windows OS ever created, including full versions of Windows 8.

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I still don't get the point of rolling out an OS that is incompatible with every other version of Windows OS ever created, including full versions of Windows 8.

MS needed an option which competed with iOS. Without it people would have been whining about how big and bulky Windows Tablets are compared to iPads. But switch to the ARM core means less s/w availability (just like when iOS was first released) - suddenly people realize that big, bulky and compatible is a better value proposition.

IOW - sometimes you need to offer an inferior product in order to highlight the benefits of the premium product.

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MS needed an option which competed with iOS. Without it people would have been whining about how big and bulky Windows Tablets are compared to iPads. But switch to the ARM core means less s/w availability (just like when iOS was first released) - suddenly people realize that big, bulky and compatible is a better value proposition.

IOW - sometimes you need to offer an inferior product in order to highlight the bemething nefits of the premium product.

As I said earlier, after researching, I opted for Android over Win8RT for my recent tablet purchase. I guess i won't be experiencing the highlights of the premium product, but at least I'll have access to a decent selection of apps. If i can't run legacy software, this is pretty important, and something MS seems to have overlooked.

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As I said earlier, after researching, I opted for Android over Win8RT for my recent tablet purchase.

Given the price points and available s/w the move make sense.

I have an iPad and I am happy with it for the use I have for it.

I also have a Windows 8 laptop and I happy with it.

If i can't run legacy software, this is pretty important, and something MS seems to have overlooked.

You missed my point. The 'premium product' in this case is the version of tablets that run the full Windows 8 and are 100% compatible with existing apps. The trouble is the the x86 CPI architecture means more power consumption and bigger devices - but that is the price you have to pay if you want compatibility. This is the market segment that MS needs to capture and I see Windows RT as something that enhances the credibility of that offering. Edited by TimG

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For those who are complaining about windows 8, have you ever actually tried it?

I have been "using" it for over two months. IMHO, it is an utter disaster.

1. Microsoft is the new IBM because Windows 8 opens a wide door for a new OS.

2. This mistake will have an effect on US GDP numbers.

3. Like IBM, Microsoft will likely try to "fix" this mistake.

------

From what I know, "Stardock" (a few guys in a basement studio) has made $15 million in the last few months selling a few lines of code at $5 a pop to 3 million users. Easy money, imagine the potential.

Edited by August1991

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This video was made several months ago but its point is still valid:

I could only watch a couple of minutes of that. A guy with a voice more annoying than Gilbert Gottfried is going to get very little leeway from me, and he spent it all when he decided to start telling me about DOS.

Wow, I think I will avoid Win8 and tell others as well. This is horrible.!!

You're going to tell your friends not to use a product you've never used because you saw a cartoon some guy made about it? :D

-k

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For those who are complaining about windows 8, have you ever actually tried it?

Personally, I use Win7 at work, Win8 at home, and switch seamlessly between them.

I'm completely baffled that so many people seem unable to use Win8 when it's so easy to just use it exactly the same as Win7.

I have been "using" it for over two months. IMHO, it is an utter disaster.

1. Microsoft is the new IBM because Windows 8 opens a wide door for a new OS.

That door has been wide open for a very long time; Linux and Mac OS have failed to make significant inroads and no other alternative is even worth mentioning. The door is indeed wide open for an alternative to Windows 8, and that alternative is... Windows 7.

Large numbers of consumers have decided that they simply have no need to upgrade their PCs. I have been running the same hardware for years (added a new video card a couple of years ago, a solid state drive last winter, but aside from that, no hardware changes since about 2009.) It's ridiculously powerful.

The operating system is the same story. I upgraded to Win8 when it arrived, because it cost $70. Cheap. But I certainly didn't need to; Win7 was entirely adequate.

2. This mistake will have an effect on US GDP numbers.

...because it has created an opportunity for entrepreneurs like Stardock to innovate?

If you're saying that Windows 8 is to blame for the state of the PC industry, I strongly disagree. The extent to which PC sales have stagnated represents the degree to which the PC industry as a whole has reached a crossroads. People are satisfied with their existing equipment; there's nothing driving sales of new PCs right now; gaming consoles and mobile devices are eating into the multimedia entertainment world that used to be a driver of newer/better PC equipment sales. (the last time I did upgrade my PC hardware was so that I could play Oblivion in full HD. Now, if I play computer games, it's usually on the PS3.)

3. Like IBM, Microsoft will likely try to "fix" this mistake.

Of course they will. Why wouldn't they? The next update of Windows 8 will allow people to boot directly to the desktop, and then you'll have nothing to complain about.

From what I know, "Stardock" (a few guys in a basement studio) has made $15 million in the last few months selling a few lines of code at $5 a pop to 3 million users. Easy money, imagine the potential.

Stardock has been around for a long time; I used Stardock products to customize my old Windows XP clunker back when I was just a kimlet.

Why would it bother you that Stardock has made a lot of money by providing users a way to customize their Windows 8 systems? Do you hate capitalism or something?

-k

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I could only watch a couple of minutes of that. A guy with a voice more annoying than Gilbert Gottfried is going to get very little leeway from me, and he spent it all when he decided to start telling me about DOS.You're going to tell your friends not to use a product you've never used because you saw a cartoon some guy made about it? :D

-k

Win 8 came from the failed platform for mobile phones. So kind of by default it's already a no go. Win 8 is geared towards touchscreens and tablets. It is not really designed for how I use the computer. Win8 may have it's place but for power users, Win 7 is still the best OS Microsoft has put out. I also don't like the idea of needing to sign up for a Microsoft account just so I can change some features in the OS. Win 8 seems to simply take more control away from the user who is actually using the thing.

I can't stand an icon desktop interface. I like to customize it myself. I don't care much for the iPad and the OS, so I cannot see myself going for Win 8.

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Win 8 came from the failed platform for mobile phones. So kind of by default it's already a no go. Win 8 is geared towards touchscreens and tablets. It is not really designed for how I use the computer. Win8 may have it's place but for power users, Win 7 is still the best OS Microsoft has put out. I also don't like the idea of needing to sign up for a Microsoft account just so I can change some features in the OS. Win 8 seems to simply take more control away from the user who is actually using the thing.

I can't stand an icon desktop interface. I like to customize it myself. I don't care much for the iPad and the OS, so I cannot see myself going for Win 8.

I remain perplexed and baffled by all this talk of mobile phones, tablets, "apps", and so on. Are people not aware that Windows 8 doesn't require you to use any of that? That as soon as you're at the Desktop, it's the exact same user interface they've been using all along?

I honestly just don't get it. You people are being ridiculous.

-k

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I honestly just don't get it. You people are being ridiculous.

-k

lol yes they are. I'm using windows 8 and this new operating system is such an improvement from windows 7 in so many ways that I fail to understand the logic of these complaints.

Of course there will be low interest in a new operating system, after all we're in a recession that has not been seen on this magnitude since 1930.

Even chromebook and Mac are taking a tumble or stagnating in sales these days.

Edited by Sleipnir

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