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Keystone XL pipeline

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I don't think we can feed the world with wild salmon, but there are many other benefits too.

Humans can do without wild salmon but there is a whole ecosystem that can't.

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Hey, you Americans aren't supposed to know about the raw sewage! Okay, who spilled!?

notwithstanding scientific debates over the effects of Victoria's sewage outfall, the city's plan (with provincial/federal engagement) for sewage treatment continues toward completion/deployment... an easy googly turns up lots of American examples, like... per the New England Center for Investigative Reporting, every year across New England states, billions of gallons of raw sewage and contaminated stormwater surge into the waterways/onto streets:

fvcsab.jpg

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notwithstanding scientific debates over the effects of Victoria's sewage outfall

Sure...because we all know that raw sewage discharge into the ocean is actually a good thing for the "environment".

Victoria is "proud" of its POOP:

http://environment.about.com/od/waterpollution/a/canadasewage.htm

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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Meh...if BC cared so much about their "pristine environment", then the commercial fisherpersons wouldn't have already effed things up so badly and raw sewage wouldn't still be discharged into the ocean.

Sure...because we all know that raw sewage discharge into the ocean is actually a good thing for the "environment".

Victoria is "proud" of its POOP:

http://environment.about.com/od/waterpollution/a/canadasewage.htm

you took a convenient shot and I returned by highlighting an easy googly example of just what's going on with raw sewage dumping in New England states... there are many other American examples available. I note you didn't bother to actually recognize/criticize... or even challenge that example I put forth. No, of course not. Instead you searched for a superficial article that had an unsubstantiated title emphasis you could leverage; i.e., you trolled.

that scientific debate I referred to comes from several sources; one no less than Environment Canada that sets shellfish closure zones, acceptable particle levels, etc., in relation to the Victoria outfall (1 km out, 65 km deep). Of course monitoring presumed upon such things as the efficacy of ocean water dilution, currents/tides, etc.. In any case, as I highlighted, Victoria's new sewage treatment plan/deployment is being worked on and is expected to cost about $1 Billion when completed (with 3 levels of government funding)... that's a solution in the making. What I read about a U.S. national level problem reflects as much upon practice as the much talked of crumbling U.S. infrastructure; in that regard, dated/crumbling sewage infrastructure has significant bearing on levels of sewage entering U.S. waters today.

.

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you took a convenient shot and I returned by highlighting an easy googly example of just what's going on with raw sewage dumping in New England states...

So what....the point was to illustrate BC's historical indifference for the environment, not to play pattycake with you. The well known and purposeful discharge of raw sewage by Victoria is finally being addressed, after decades of criticism for poisoning the sea. It was disgusting when I had to sail through it 40 years ago, and still is.

New England already has coastal pipelines, like the 73 year old Portland-Montreal.

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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So what....the point was to illustrate BC's historical indifference for the environment, not to play pattycake with you. The well known and purposeful discharge of raw sewage by Victoria is finally being addressed, after decades of criticism for poisoning the sea. It was disgusting when I had to sail through it 40 years ago, and still is.

New England already has coastal pipelines, like the 73 year old Portland-Montreal.

Yes and I sailed my boat down the east coast for the first time 20 years ago. My boat had a thru hull fitting from the head and there was talk about making that illegal except that at the time there were about 3 places on the coast you could get pumped out so they put that on hold. Here is the goofy part: as I sailed across NY city harbout there was an area on the chart marked "caution dumping area" It was on my tack at the time, didn't know what that meant, but it just looked like ocean to me so I held course. Then I found out what "dumping area" meant. A huge barge was towed into place and NY city's you know what was pumped into the sea. It was about as close to sea sick as I've ever been, and it wasn't to do with rough water, if you get my 'drift', so to speak.

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It was about as close to sea sick as I've ever been, and it wasn't to do with rough water, if you get my 'drift', so to speak.

???? Were the New Yorkers protesting about their "pristine environment" and "just say no" to oil pipelines ?

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So what....the point was to illustrate BC's historical indifference for the environment, not to play pattycake with you. The well known and purposeful discharge of raw sewage by Victoria is finally being addressed, after decades of criticism for poisoning the sea.

that "indifference" you speak of was principally government in action... with a part of that shaped by regulation, itself driven by (other) government monitoring/review/analysis that deemed the dumping acceptable in terms of dilution rates, particle levels, shellfish closure zones, etc.. You have absolutely no grounds to suggest the collective BC environmental movement was "indifferent" to the dumping practice (again, 1 km out, 65 km deep). After a long concentrated protest its that very collective BC environmental movement that has finally brought forward a $1 Billion sewage treatment plan/deployment.

but ya, following your lead, how about all that "indifference" in the U.S. to the sewage discharge I've highlighted, to your described "poisoning of the sea" (lakes/rivers/streams) in the U.S. ... a big part of which reflects on the crumbling U.S. infrastructure. Don't trip over yourself scrambling to continue to ignore this point, hey!

.

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that "indifference" you speak of was principally government in action... After a long concentrated protest its that very collective BC environmental movement that has finally brought forward a $1 Billion sewage treatment plan/deployment.

Meh....the "collective" actions of BC residents was to be directly complicit in discharging untreated sewage into the ocean. $1 billion...wow...that's less than one years budget for the CBC !

but ya, following your lead, how about all that "indifference" in the U.S. to the sewage discharge I've highlighted, to your described "poisoning of the sea" (lakes/rivers/streams) in the U.S. ... a big part of which reflects on the crumbling U.S. infrastructure. Don't trip over yourself scrambling to continue to ignore this point, hey!

You are missing the larger point (as always). The U.S. already has over 800,000 miles of pipelines, and is building more, including Keystone. Canada has no uniform regulation of untreated sewage, unlike the U.S.

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Anyone else here ever written and presented a proposal to install a marine pump-out station where they live? I did. It took about a year and a half to see the power's that be approve it and about another year or so to get them to install it.

So what....the point was to illustrate BC's historical indifference for the environment, not to play pattycake with you. The well known and purposeful discharge of raw sewage by Victoria is finally being addressed, after decades of criticism for poisoning the sea. It was disgusting when I had to sail through it 40 years ago, and still is.

It's well known around BC's pump-out operators that several US boaters from Puget Sound have been steaming across our border to pump their poop for years. Taking advantage of other countries lax governance and enforcement just comes second nature to many Americans, apparently.

I tried to clean up how we govern ourselves too for awhile. I guess I should just be thankful Americans aren't steaming across the border to prop the government up.

Edited by eyeball

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Meh....the "collective" actions of BC residents was to be directly complicit in discharging untreated sewage into the ocean. $1 billion...wow...that's less than one years budget for the CBC!

yes, that's the estimated cost of the sewage treatment plants/process... other than carrying forward your troll act, why mention the CBC?

so now you're going to also shape-shift that "indifference" you presumed upon, to now wrap complicity around the collective bowel movements of BC residents... while you most conveniently continue to ignore the raw sewage dumping going on in the U.S.? Why should one expect anything less of you?

.

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yes, that's the estimated cost of the sewage treatment plants/process... other than carrying forward your troll act, why mention the CBC?

That's peanuts...should have happened decades ago. Why....because I like comedy with continuity...that's why.

so now you're going to also shape-shift that "indifference" you presumed upon, to now wrap complicity around the collective bowel movements of BC residents... while you most conveniently continue to ignore the raw sewage dumping going on in the U.S.? Why should one expect anything less of you?

.

More diversion....no substance....build the pipelines and refineries east and west for real credibility. Be warned...it might cost more than (gulp) $1 billion dollars. Victoria, BC is world renown for dumping raw sewage, not Fish Kills, NY.

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That's peanuts...should have happened decades ago. Why....because I like comedy with continuity...that's why.

as you continue to ignore today's active U.S. raw sewage dumping being highlighted, $1 Billion is significant coin. You've been provided a rationale used, one that delayed the treatment plan/deployment. Did I mention you continue to ignore the highlighted U.S. raw sewage dumping?

need I also highlight, once again, you've derailed this thread with your latest references to BC sewage dumping and the CBC. Well done! Here's a thought. Why not follow the topical lead coming out of the other 'improvements thread'... rather than you continuing your troll act why not start up a thread to harness your collective CBC trolling... maybe even one that speaks to raw sewage dumping (just don't forget to mention what's going on in the U.S., hey!).

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need I also highlight, once again, you've derailed this thread with your latest references to BC sewage dumping and the CBC. Well done! Here's a thought. Why not follow the topical lead coming out of the other 'improvements thread'... rather than you continuing your troll act why not start up a thread to harness your collective CBC trolling... maybe even one that speaks to raw sewage dumping (just don't forget to mention what's going on in the U.S., hey!).

Wrong...long standing environmental practices (or non practice as in this case) are directly related to east-west pipeline approvals in Canada. Your suggestion(s) have been considered and denied as self serving and boring.

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Wrong...long standing environmental practices (or non practice as in this case) are directly related to east-west pipeline approvals in Canada. Your suggestion(s) have been considered and denied as self serving and boring.

I've read a few pipeline related submissions before the NEB. Within them, I've certainly not read anything related to your CBC thread derail... I also can't recall anything related to your raw sewage dumping thread derail in those submissions. Care to cite/quote exactly what you're referring to?

.

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I've read a few pipeline related submissions before the NEB. Within them, I've certainly not read anything related to your CBC thread derail... I also can't recall anything related to your raw sewage dumping thread derail in those submissions. Care to cite/quote exactly what you're referring to?

.

Maybe you don't read enough.....that's OK. Maybe I heard it on the CBC ! Is that another "derail" ? Raw sewage treatment before discharge at sea would be part of any well coordinated environment impact study and planning effort, but that's just me, an American with a government that actually cares about such things.

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Raw sewage treatment before discharge at sea would be part of any well coordinated environment impact study and planning effort, but that's just me, an American with a government that actually cares about such things.

come again! What does your raw sewage treatment thread derail have to do with any oil related pipeline submission/approval process, KXL or other?

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come again! What does your raw sewage treatment thread derail have to do with any oil related pipeline submission/approval process, KXL or other?

Let's review...."tree huggers" claim that BC is a "pristine environment" and no pipeline is allowed to potentially ruin it...smart ass American opines that Victoria BC has been pumping raw, untreated sewage in the ocean (SoJdF) for decades...intelligent members get connection....one member doesn't. Sad....

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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no - let's really review... based on derailing the thread on the KXL pipeline with your reference to Victoria raw sewage, you claimed "BC had/has a historical indifference for the environment". I explained the rationale behind your presumed indifference; one predicated upon complicit multi-tier governments acting upon each others cooperative regulation/monitoring/review/analysis... all suggesting the practice was "safe"... all collectively working against anything but an indifferent BC environmental movement long protesting the dumping of raw sewage.

additionally, your described smart ass American continues to ignore the highlighted raw sewage dumping throughout U.S. waterways... apparently, following the lead of your described smart ass American, this most certainly must equate to "American indifference for the U.S. environment"! Intelligent members get this purposeful avoidance... one member doesn't. Sad....

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...additionally, your described smart ass American continues to ignore the highlighted raw sewage dumping throughout U.S. waterways...

Off topic.....we are discussing pipeline approvals and environmental protections for British Columbia. Please stop derailing this thread.

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Off topic.....we are discussing pipeline approvals and environmental protections for British Columbia. Please stop derailing this thread.

a derail? You speak of your own described "smart ass American" ploy in presuming to put forward, as you say, "BC indifference to raw sewage dumping"... and, of course, with your latest post you manage to play the "tree hugger" invective. Of course, your ploy was easily dismissed as there has been no shortage of long-standing environmental positions against the practice. Equally, of course, as I keep pointing out, none of this derail of yours has anything to do with oil pipelines in general, or this thread in particular.

when your hypocrisy is highlighted in you avoiding any acknowledgement of active U.S. raw sewage dumping... a comparative counter to your presumed "BC indifference", you conveniently label this a derail! Of course you do.

surely you're not upset your derail is being derailed! :lol:

.

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