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August1991

Facebook, Wikipedia & Islam

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Each of these "institutions" are popular. Yet, each uses a different method to ensure its success and sustainability.

In the case of Facebook, it was an IPO and a stock listing. Institutions such as Facebook ultimately rely on human greed for their long term survival. People (shareholders) give money to Facebook because they think they'll become rich.

In the case of Wikipedia, it's the occasional request for money. Wikipedia is a charity. When it needs money, it asks users to contribute. Some people do.

In the case of Islam, it's the fear of damnation. If you don't do as Islamic rules state, you will be an outcast. For eternity, you will not exist.

----

Given human nature, which institution is likely to survive in the long run?

Edited by August1991

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Canadian Tire Corp, Costco and the Catholic Church all have different incentives to return and thus maintain or increase mark share. CTC, rewards shoppers with Canadian Tire money. Costco charges a membership fee upfront which has been shown to create a powerful mental financial obligation to return. The RCC offers free soul cleansing through confession and indulgences like reduced purgatory time for those who participate in various events.

Do any of these methods help attract your business?

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Guest American Woman

Answer: All of them.

Next, Pepsi, MySpace and the Ebola virus.

Answer: All of them.

People still use MySpace? :huh:

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People still use MySpace? :huh:

As crazy as it sounds, yes.

Each of these "institutions" are popular. Yet, each uses a different method to ensure its success and sustainability.

In the case of Facebook, it was an IPO and a stock listing. Institutions such as Facebook ultimately rely on human greed for their long term survival. People (shareholders) give money to Facebook because they think they'll become rich.

Somewhat yes. Everything you post on facebook is money in their pocket. They make money selling your information to other entities. Mainly for advertising. The IPO was just icing on the cake.

In the case of Wikipedia, it's the occasional request for money. Wikipedia is a charity. When it needs money, it asks users to contribute. Some people do.

In the case of Islam, it's the fear of damnation. If you don't do as Islamic rules state, you will be an outcast. For eternity, you will not exist.

Kind of like fundamentalists in any religion. Fancy that.

Given human nature, which institution is likely to survive in the long run?

Islam will outlast wiki and facebook.

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Each of these "institutions" are popular. Yet, each uses a different method to ensure its success and sustainability.

In the case of Facebook, it was an IPO and a stock listing. Institutions such as Facebook ultimately rely on human greed for their long term survival. People (shareholders) give money to Facebook because they think they'll become rich.

The IPO and stock listing isn't the method by which Facebook obtains money.

The IPO is the method by which its creators (Zuckerberg et al) turned their "sweat-equity" into money. The public trading of the stock isn't really of any benefit to Facebook Inc.

Facebook obtains money by selling advertising. It "sells eyeballs", to borrow your phrase. Its continued ability to get revenue depends on its ability to attract and retain eyeballs. At present its user base remains massive. It would be naive to assume that's a permanent state of affairs.

I agree with Gosthacked: Islam will outlast Facebook and Wikipedia, for reasons that aren't very flattering to humanity in general.

-k

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Guest American Woman

but over the decades... does relegion increase? think there are more atheists, because we have things like internet and so on

The world's Muslim population is expected to increase by about 35 percent in the next 20 years....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/27/new-pew-forum-report-proj_n_814818.html

Other things will come along to replace Wiki and FaceBook, but Islam will still be here.

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Agreed. I don't think a day goes by that I don't read something on there.

I even stumped up some cash for them...

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The IPO and stock listing isn't the method by which Facebook obtains money.

.....

Facebook obtains money by selling advertising.

Same difference. I meant to say that Facebook operates with a clear eye on the bottom line. If an activity has no chance of profit, Facebook won't go there.

-----

To be precise Kimmy, Mark Zuckerberg made alot of money personally from Facebook's IPO.

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How long is the long run? None will survive forever. Also... wikipedia and facebook, as specific websites with those specific names maintained by specific companies or organizations will probably not last that long, and it doesn't really make sense to compare them to something monolithic like a religion. On the other hand, if you generalize the three things you are comparing to what they actually do / try to do:

1) An easily accessible compilation of all verifiable human knowledge

2) A method for individuals to interact and share information with their friends and acquaintances

3) Religion

I'd say that all three of the above are likely to continue to exist for so long as humanity continues to exist in a recognizable form. In fact, the only one that has shown any signs of general decline over the last few centuries is religion, while compilations of knowledge and methods of interaction have become more numerous and commonplace.

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How long is the long run? None will survive forever. Also... wikipedia and facebook, as specific websites with those specific names maintained by specific companies or organizations will probably not last that long, and it doesn't really make sense to compare them to something monolithic like a religion. On the other hand, if you generalize the three things you are comparing to what they actually do / try to do:

1) An easily accessible compilation of all verifiable human knowledge

2) A method for individuals to interact and share information with their friends and acquaintances

3) Religion

I'd say that all three of the above are likely to continue to exist for so long as humanity continues to exist in a recognizable form. In fact, the only one that has shown any signs of general decline over the last few centuries is religion, while compilations of knowledge and methods of interaction have become more numerous and commonplace.

There we go. Well said.

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How long is the long run? None will survive forever. Also...

Forever is admittedly a long time but life on this planet has existed for about a billion years, a good enough definition of "forever" for me.

I doubt "life" (the institution of DNA transmission) has survived this long based on charity, or threats to others. At some point, someone will call the bluff.

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Religions live and die. The Temple of Edfu and the Roman Pantheon are still intact but no one today knows anything about the Gods/religion worshiped in either place. No doubt the Qa'aba of Mecca will suffer a similar fate.

Islam is about 1300 years old.

The Roman Catholic Church, some 2000 years old, now survives on charity.

The Hudson Bay Company lasted for about 400 years. GE is about 100 years old. But these are new institutions, yet to be tested.

Edited by August1991

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Religions live and die. The Temple of Edfu and the Roman Pantheon are still intact but no one today knows anything about the Gods/religion worshiped in either place. No doubt the Qa'aba of Mecca will suffer a similar fate.

Actually quite a bit is known both about Egyptian religion, and in particular the god Horus to which the temple at Edfu was built (thanks Wikipedia), as well as the Roman gods.

Forever is admittedly a long time but life on this planet has existed for about a billion years, a good enough definition of "forever" for me.

I doubt "life" (the institution of DNA transmission) has survived this long based on charity, or threats to others. At some point, someone will call the bluff.

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Actually the planet has existed for about 4 billion years, not 1 billion. And no, life hasn't survived off charity or threats, but through the process of evolution, which allows lifeforms to adapt to a changing environment over successive generations.

Edited by Bonam

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How can you compare the long-term survivability of 2 internet sites that have only emerged in the last decade or so vs something that has been around for over a millennia?

He just did. That's Auguste for you. He posts something that makes you question the validity of the question, but then you will find post after post trying to answer it. ;)

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Actually quite a bit is known both about Egyptian religion, and in particular the god Horus to which the temple at Edfu was built (thanks Wikipedia), as well as the Roman gods.

On the contrary, what is remarkable is that the Temple of Edfu, the building, is intact. But the religion is not, except in its Wikipedia version.

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Bonam, institutions exist and buildings stand - for some time. I know ordinary Muslims who claim that Mohammed repeated the exact word of God.

Well, what makes for proof of sustainability? 1400 years? 2000 years?

Edited by August1991

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Religion will be around if we have technology or not. Facebook and other sites, will stop existing when the technology fails.

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Religion will be around if we have technology or not. Facebook and other sites, will stop existing when the technology fails.

Well, how do you define "technology"?

For me, 3+2=5 will last much longer than any religion - unless you define religion as "3+2=5". No universe can exist unless such a basic principle exists. No universe can have both 3+2=5 and 3+2=27. It is impossible to have a universe without these mathematical principles. For me, "God" is this collection of basic mathematical principles.

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As to Facebook, another principle of existence is the relationships between things. In Jane Austen's time, people wrote letters. Teenage girls once spent hours on telephones. Nowadays, they check their screen incessantly.

Whether the Moon and the Earth, or an electron and a nucleus, or young men and a belle, individuals want to know where they are.

Edited by August1991

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Whether the Moon and the Earth, or an electron and a nucleus, or young men and a belle, individuals want to know where they are.

Yes, and you have outlined 2 of the 3 ways you can check where you are:

"God loves me", ie. pure faith

"2"3=5", ie. pure reason

The third way is physical science, which melds human thought with the physical world. For example. biology, evolution, climate science - that explain and assist the human existence in the physical world.

It's the least perfect of the three but perhaps the one with the most tangible and satisfying results. You wouldn't be able to use your iPhone without it.

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In the case of Islam, it's the fear of damnation. If you don't do as Islamic rules state, you will be an outcast. For eternity, you will not exist.

So you mean that people believe in Islam because of they believe in Islam.

why would someone be afraid of something he/she dont believe in ?

Edited by Altai

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