Jump to content
Political Discussion Forums

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 227
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

No, it is not any more "racist" to fly the flag or flags (there were several) of the Confederate States of America than it is to fly the Stars and Stripes or National Flag of Canada, as all manner of "human rights" violations occurred for all of them. The Confederate flag is an important artifact of U.S. history.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Symbolism and historical context is well documented here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

I thank you for your input of my reply to another user however it really didn't answer my question to her because of how she said it. Being from the South myself I do have knowledge of its real and true symbolism. The other user I believe made his/her statement that the symbolism and historical context of flag were of something degrading. I was merely asking what symbolism and historical context should be over looked.

Again thank you for your reply!

Link to post
Share on other sites

What makes them rednecks?

"Redneck" is a stereotype we're all familiar with, and many of us know people who fit that stereotype to a tee. Especially in my part of the country.

I have yet to meet any Canadian who displayed the Confederate flag that didn't fit the "redneck" stereotype to a tee.

-k

Link to post
Share on other sites

.....The other user I believe made his/her statement that the symbolism and historical context of flag were of something degrading. I was merely asking what symbolism and historical context should be over looked.

OK, and since you raise the point, there are some who associate the flag's symbolism and context with extreme groups (e.g. Nazis, KKK, Aryan Brotherhood, etc.). Such concerns must give way to the free speech and expression rights that they would attempt to deny those celebrating the Confederate flag. Hate speech laws may fly in Canada, but not in the country to the south where the war was fought.

Link to post
Share on other sites

"Redneck" is a stereotype we're all familiar with, and many of us know people who fit that stereotype to a tee. Especially in my part of the country.

I have yet to meet any Canadian who displayed the Confederate flag that didn't fit the "redneck" stereotype to a tee.

-k

If you don't mind me asking, in what stereotype group would you fall under?

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, and since you raise the point, there are some who associate the flag's symbolism and context with extreme groups (e.g. Nazis, KKK, Aryan Brotherhood, etc.). Such concerns must give way to the free speech and expression rights that they would attempt to deny those celebrating the Confederate flag. Hate speech laws may fly in Canada, but not in the country to the south where the war was fought.

I know I ask a lot of questions but I love learning and finding out the ways culteralism.

I'm just wondering where you are from? You seem very iknowledgeable on Southern States and very intelligent.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am from the northeast USA originally, but have lived and traveled in many parts of the U.S. Anybody with an objective understanding of history quickly realizes the significance of the Confederacy and its symbols. Such symbols should not be squelched for the sake of political correctness.

Curiously, some Canadians will refer to "Yanks" not realizing it really doesn't include the Land of Dixie.

Edited by bush_cheney2004
Link to post
Share on other sites

I am from the northeast USA originally, but have lived and traveled in many parts of the U.S. Anybody with an objective understanding of history quickly realizes the significance of the Confederacy and its symbols. Such symbols should not be squelched for the sake of political correctness.

Curiously, some Canadians will refer to "Yanks" not realizing it really doesn't include the Land of Dixie.

And very few Reb units actually used that flag, anyways. It's the Army of Tennessee's flag, if I'm not mistaken.

125px-CSA_FLAG_28.11.1861-1.5.1863.svg.p

Stars 'n Bars

Link to post
Share on other sites

And very few Reb units actually used that flag, anyways. It's the Army of Tennessee's flag, if I'm not mistaken.

Right you are, as it was a far more complex scenario for confederate states and even groups in those states. The most commonly seen flag is actually a "battle flag" with very practical use on the battlefield as a way to distinguish opposing/aligned forces. As you well know, there is a huge following for the history and artifacts of what is considered to be the first "modern" war.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreement. The Rebs were a particularly colourful lot when it came to uniforms and flags. Each regiment, brigade, division, corp, etc with its own flag. Here's General Lee's (Army of Northern Virginia) actual flag...

$(KGrHqJHJEME-m47Gk3hBPu2Nlo,hw~~60_35.J

The Union had a more standard approach.

Then there were the Zouaves that fought on both sides but wouldn't fight each other.

zouaves.jpg

Talkin' of colourful...

Edited by DogOnPorch
Link to post
Share on other sites

As we all know there was conflict between the south and north in America that caused The Civil War. 150 years later many people across America still fly the Confederate flag today.

The topic here is it racist to fly the flag?

The average Rebel soldier that fought under such a flag was a poor share cropper rather than a rich slave owner.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have mixed feelings on this. kimmy pretty much has her finger on one important point, it may not be so much that flying the flag makes you racist so much as people who do all the other things make one racist are much more highly correlated to flying the flag. On the other hand, if you ask whether flying the Nazi flag makes you a racist...

bc4 rightly points out that atrocities have been committed under the American and Canadian flags, but I am not sure that this has all the necessary support of a good counter-argument. Much, much more has been done under those flags that was not inherently bad. They have both a positive legacy and a negative one. The Nazi flag, on the other hand, has absolutely nothing good associated with it, and the Confederacy just did not last long enough for its flag to come to define much other than the bad.

Link to post
Share on other sites

....The Union had a more standard approach.

Then there were the Zouaves that fought on both sides but wouldn't fight each other.

Most definitely....it was a very complex thing, splitting up even individual families. Arguably, and I think you have hinted at this as well, the U.S. actually emerged from the Civil War as a force to be reckoned with. It is no coincidence that the Dominion of Canada was "born" in 1867.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have mixed feelings on this. kimmy pretty much has her finger on one important point, it may not be so much that flying the flag makes you racist so much as people who do all the other things make one racist are much more highly correlated to flying the flag. On the other hand, if you ask whether flying the Nazi flag makes you a racist...

bc4 rightly points out that atrocities have been committed under the American and Canadian flags, but I am not sure that this has all the necessary support of a good counter-argument. Much, much more has been done under those flags that was not inherently bad. They have both a positive legacy and a negative one. The Nazi flag, on the other hand, has absolutely nothing good associated with it, and the Confederacy just did not last long enough for its flag to come to define much other than the bad.

A great number of folks in states affected by the Civil War are re-creationist/reenactors rather than racists. One's great grandfather might in fact have been in the 33rd Virginia or the 20th Maine, for example.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Most definitely....it was a very complex thing, splitting up even individual families. Arguably, and I think you have hinted at this as well, the U.S. actually emerged from the Civil War as a force to be reckoned with. It is no coincidence that the Dominion of Canada was "born" in 1867.

A million troops w/ Springfield rifles w/ nuthin' to do 'cept Win the West...yup....agreement.

:)

Link to post
Share on other sites

bc4 rightly points out that atrocities have been committed under the American and Canadian flags, but I am not sure that this has all the necessary support of a good counter-argument. Much, much more has been done under those flags that was not inherently bad.

But in fact, such "atrocities" continued long after the Confederacy was gone, in both Canada and the U.S. The "victors" get to right history, which is all the more reason why one should be careful here.

The Nazi flag, on the other hand, has absolutely nothing good associated with it, and the Confederacy just did not last long enough for its flag to come to define much other than the bad.

This is not true, as many scientific and engineering achievements are associated with Nazism's rule in Germany. It's just that such things are not discussed out of political correctness. But it's hard to hide something like the impact of "Werner von Braun" and Nazi party support for his work.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Similar Content

    • By Zeitgeist
      https://www.mississauga.com/news-story/10017802-online-petition-calls-for-renaming-of-winston-churchill-boulevard-in-mississauga/
       
      So, the first leader to declare war on Hitler and Nazism is under fire with calls to change the name of Sir Winston Churchill Blvd. Thoughts?
    • By Zeitgeist
      With all of the accusations of systemic racism, including the idea of unconscious bias, some companies are implementing affirmative action hiring policies that will aim to hire more minorities.  The CBC, for example, claims it will make sure at least 50% of its workforce are minorities.  Do you agree with affirmative action policies?
    • By Hussain
      I had the privilege of interviewing MP Mark Holland on issues facing Canada from Clean drinking water in Indengoues reserves, Coronavirus outbreak, Affordable housing, and Wexit Canada.
      You can watch it on youtube Monday 2:15 p.m EST 
      BUT What do you think are the top 5 issues in Canada?
      Follow me on IG @t.w.t_podcast_
       
    • By Scott Mayers
      A news conference was just held now on the news of Indigenous people declaring war on us all for the "not guilty" verdict of Gerald Stanley. See  http://thestarphoenix.com/news/local-news/gerald-stanley-trial-jury-delivers-not-guilty-verdict-in-murder-of-colten-boushie
      and present news coverage tonight (10:45 Global news and likely on CBC network now). 
      I've always understood our government's stance of "Mutliculturalism" (TM) to represent collective forms of National Socialists and NOT diversity of all peoples. In the need for the establishment of this country's faltering power to preserve their own Nationalistic 'catholic' origins here, Pierre Trudeau set up a Constitution that locked in his favored religion and culture but had to include token means to the very Aboriginal tribes his (not my) relatives thought of the Natives when they abused them through various policies of their own ancestors. 
      I believe the means of 'favoring' the Aboriginals the WAY we have in this country today goes along with the similar movements to grant women and girls retribution against the problems ...that again....his own kind of family and thinkers created. Yet to do so means to TRANSFER the burden to all people and especially to those very stereotypical thinking memes against SCAPEGOATS of the whole rather than take on the burden of debt that is due against the churches and wealthy establishment of the Eastern Canadian Catholic and Anglican 'loyalists' that served to go against the democratic changes of the Enlightenment when the U.S. was being formed. 
      My anger here is to what this conference of "Nations" (Aboriginal Nationalists) are challenging of many across the nation now against the trial that "let a guilty man free" today. [I don't hold any opinion for Gerald Stanley's guilt nor innocence, only the FACT that he's been tried by a jury of his peers as we are all expected a right here to.] The rise of Nationalism by the Natives now is something that I fear is going to harm us all in kind to all the other segregate empowered groups being fostered by Mutliculturalism. [Remember, the Nazis in Germany is precisely a motion of "Indigenous" Germans demanding SEGREGATE social rights as 'distinct' special peoples!.]
      History is not only repeating itself,...it is getting amplified for the sake of the selfish arrogance and ignorance of those supporting SEGREGATE laws for SPECIFIC people as though they are above and beyond reproach. 
      I was born on this EARTH and so am equally "Aboriginal" here. I also have NOT gained any of the wealth nor benefits of anyone here, including no favor to high paying jobs that I get stereotyped as having gained from. I am a "FLOATER" when it comes to the fact that I don't own shit nor any privileged "culture" that I supposedly OWN from some ancestors of mine. This is MY land as much as any others here. And I'm getting tired of this EMPOWERMENT to National Socialism in the name of "liberalism" of a left that is actually the collective right-wingers AVENGING W.A.S.P.s that I also DO NOT SUPPORT!!
      Thank you Trudeau and all you who support SEGREGATIONIST, racist and sexist laws here. Thank you for the inevitable wars that YOU are actually fostering of the very people you claim to be pitying. 
       
      P.S. "Person Kind" comes from the meaning "per son" (for each SON); So if you were intending to evade any sexist overtones of the word "Mankind" you think it has, Justine, think again. [This is a dig to his comment the other day correcting some girl who used this.]
    • By drummindiver
      The author of this article states this succinctly,   and I agree.  These books hilight the evils of racism,  and banning them due to their use of racial slurs is counter productive. 
      ANY thoughts?
      http://www.dailywire.com/news/11275/leftists-virginia-ban-kill-mockingbird-huck-finn-ben-shapiro
  • Tell a friend

    Love Political Discussion Forums? Tell a friend!
×
×
  • Create New...