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Greg

What improvements would you like to see in this discussion forum?

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The best way to get rid of trolls is to deprive them of an audience. Some trolls are so bothered by this that they might even say this is an attempt to silence them.

If everyone ignored the trolls, as I do, they would go away. They crave attention, & denying it to them is their most painful punishment.

That said, I think bush_cheney2004 should be banned and it should have happened years ago. If you want to improve the forums to attract & keep new posters, removing MLW's most frequent poster and their 32,000 posts which most often have the purpose of trolling every freaking thread & user (by the very definition of the term & MLW rules) in an attempt to make others feel as crappy as he does in his real life would be darn good start.

In the meantime...DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

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....That said, I think bush_cheney2004 should be banned and it should have happened years ago.

This is another example of personal attacks that cause many members to leave. In general, if one finds that they are using a member's name in anything but a specific/requested response, they are in attack mode because of an on topic beatdown.

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Bush_cheney, you have said the cbc is "state financed and controlled media" 18 times in the Fox News thread. You are obviously stating that to get a rise out of folks. I think everyone got your point the first 5 times you stated it! Now I've gone off topic in this thread. :lol: Sorry.

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Bush_cheney, you have said the cbc is "state financed and controlled media" 18 times in the Fox News thread. You are obviously stating that to get a rise out of folks. I think everyone got your point the first 5 times you stated it! Now I've gone off topic in this thread. :lol: Sorry.

Yes, you are off topic, and you violated forum rules by insulting another member in that thread. It is permissible to say that ideas or opinions are idiotic or stupid, but it is not permissible to call another member an "idiot". I hope you have learned from this experience and I look forward to many spirited debates with you in the future.

My statements concerning the CBC are substantiated opinions.

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That is exactly my point Bush. You like to goad people with your repetitive comments that annoy people to the point that they (me) end up calling you an ******. My suggestion for this thread is for members to try and be a bit more respectful (including me) and not state their points so many times.

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However, the mods do have the power to make the nuissances disappear immediately.

You're right, but they haven't yet and it doesn't appear as though they're going to. It's better to just regulate ourselves, as hard as it is sometimes to ignore blatant stupidity.

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Staying on point with repetition is a time honoured and effective debating technique, used by many members here at MLW. If another member loses their cool in frustration, that is their problem.

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If anything, it's the opposite. Penalizing thread drift is a sure fire way to drive new people out. Conversations go where they go, and people should be able to respond to the discussion where it is without fear of a moderator acting like third grade hall monitor and giving "warning points". It's the most childish thing I've seen in a long time, and it's a big reason why I don't bother to participate here nearly as much as I used to.

People can do what they want. I'm talking about self-regulating. And besides, conversations tend to ebb and flow, but there are some very obvious scenarios where posters bring up completely off-topic things to get a reaction out of others. This is the stuff that people should just be ignoring.

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Staying on point with repetition is a time honoured and effective debating technique, used by many members here at MLW.

repetition? Ya, ya,...your repetitive trolling is a/your time honoured (and ineffective) debating technique. But hey now, I note your use of the English/Canadian spelling of the word 'honoured'. Borg assimilation at work! (warning: possible thread drift ahead)

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repetition? Ya, ya,...

Sir, you of all members has the least to say about such repetition, as it is a mainstay for your favourite topics. Thread drift confirmed.

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Ladies and gentlemen,

Lots of things are violations of the forum rules and most of you all are guilty more than you realize.

Responding in kind to somebody else's violation of the forum rules is the most common violation that occurs in the forum -- much more than any other.

Here is a little secret about my bias as moderator: At approximately 99% of the time, I hate it when you folks respond to trolling more than I hate the trolling to which you respond. Please govern yourselves accordingly.

I would encourage you all to meditate upon Cyber's call to regulate yourselves.

Ch. A.

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Here is a little secret about my bias as moderator: At approximately 99% of the time, I hate it when you folks respond to trolling more than I hate the trolling to which you respond.

Why do you care? Instead of demanding that people converse the way YOU want them to, why not just let them have a conversation? People can decide for themselves if they do or do not want to participate.

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Why do you care?

--- because over time, whatever is ignored will go away. It is not for me to label somebody a "troll" while people are seriously conversing with that person. There are lots of other reasons but they all pivot on the fact that everybody has a different opinion on what constitutes trolling or thread-drift or whatever.

Instead of demanding that people converse the way YOU want them to, why not just let them have a conversation? People can decide for themselves if they do or do not want to participate.

People are left alone to do that 99% of the time. [in fact, I am complicit in that right now because Greg asked us all to wait for a separate thread on moderation.] Unfortunately, that liberty is abused by members. I rarely intervene except to give people reminders like "Please avoid thread drift."

Despite that, lots of people make frivolous reports and they complain incessantly when there is no intervention upon their frivolous report. In other words, they do not want what you want.

Lots of people report posts as trolling when I do not believe it is trolling.

Lots of people provoke trolling/thread-drift and then report their fellow members who are baited.

Lots of people go back and dig up discussions from the past to report old incidents of trolling-in-their-opinion as retaliation to their personal warning.

My message is to those lots of people more so than anybody else.

Can we have the definition of trolling?

Trolling is being disruptive which is largely a subjective judgement.

From the rules and guidelines:

No Trolling/Flaming

Do not post inflammatory remarks just to annoy people. If you are not bringing anything new to the argument, then do not say anything at all.

Some messages are not so much offensive as simply nuisance value. An example would be a person who persistently creates conflict without contributing anything useful. In newsgroup circles, such a person is known as a "troll". We define "trolling" as a message that serves no constructive purpose and is likely to cause offence or arguments. We define "annoying" as any message that results in a complaint from a registered user -- we will then decide whether to take action.

If everybody avoids responding to every incidence of disruption/trolling-in-their-own-individual-personal-opinion, then an exact universally accepted definition of trolling is a moot point and I will not have to send anybody a personal message that says: "Please avoid thread drift." because some people flip out when I do that too.

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Why do you care? Instead of demanding that people converse the way YOU want them to, why not just let them have a conversation? People can decide for themselves if they do or do not want to participate.

Because it makes the forum look like crap. This place is different from other political forums precisely because the standards are higher. People are expected to debate intelligently here and provided sources for their fact-based statements. It's different from other political forums because the threads are not supposed to be a chatroom. Thus, when trolls derail threads and people respond to them for 7 pages about things that have nothing to do with the thread's topic, even tangentially, it lowers the standards of the forum and turns it into every other politics forum on the web. I've never posted at the other sites (where you and I both know my opinions would fit in much better) because I didn't care for the posting standards there. They also ban certain kinds of arguments, which I completely disagree with. I don't have a problem at all with this place trying to keep threads on topic. So when someone intentionally derails a thread only to get a rise out of people it's a problem. If they want to have an actual discussion about the garbage that they're throwing around to get a rise out of people, then they can start a thread about it. You'll notice that doesn't happen because those people aren't actually interested in discussing their troll posts. They just enjoy getting a rise out of people and starting a thread about it isn't going to have that same effect.

So we're left with just ignoring stuff that derails threads. If you want to discuss a tangent that's not at all related to the OP, then start a new thread. Nobody's stopping anyone from doing that.

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cyber is highlighting the distinction between somewhat natural thread drift... and purposeful distraction/derail by trolls.

That is a clear distinction that needs to be made. There is thread drift where some other stuff is relevant to the topic, but we have seen it where it goes in a very different direction no matter how you approach it.

What we have here from a couple members is constant systematic asshatery. Most of the members have already called those individuals out but they still are able to post.

How many temporary bans are needed before a poster is permanently shown the door? If there is no permanent ban, then I think I am going to get a little assholish myself.

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--- because over time, whatever is ignored will go away. It is not for me to label somebody a "troll" while people are seriously conversing with that person. There are lots of other reasons but they all pivot on the fact that everybody has a different opinion on what constitutes trolling or thread-drift or whatever.

If you don't address the trolls, you will have nothing but sh!t on this site. That has proven itself true with a couple specific members on this site. These trolls don't care if you pay attention to them or not, they are still sh!tting up the forums.

If I wanted sh!t and trolls I'd go find another forum to play in.

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Staying on point with repetition is a time honoured and effective debating technique, used by many members here at MLW. If another member loses their cool in frustration, that is their problem.

There's no excuse for any member to lose their cool enough to break the forum rules. That said, cut the "I'm a victim" routine nonsense and obey the rules yourself. Nice try though. 99% of everyone on these boards is sick of your behaviour.

Edited by Moonlight Graham

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There's no excuse for any member to lose their cool enough to break the forum rules. That said, cut the "I'm a victim" routine nonsense and obey the rules yourself. Nice try though. 99% of everyone on these boards is sick of your behaviour.

All five...lol.

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All five...lol.

Yes...they moan...they whine...they complain...anything but accept the mere possibility of an opposing opinion and the style in which it is delivered. So upset, they can't ignore that which offends them. Sad......

Nobody is on my ignore list, yet I am able to ignore several members' posts and have done so for years. The funny part is they still hound me for attention !

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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If anything, it's the opposite. Penalizing thread drift is a sure fire way to drive new people out. Conversations go where they go, and people should be able to respond to the discussion where it is without fear of a moderator acting like third grade hall monitor and giving "warning points". It's the most childish thing I've seen in a long time, and it's a big reason why I don't bother to participate here nearly as much as I used to.

The main reason I don't is two (2) suspensions that I totally don't understand.

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The main reason I don't is two (2) suspensions that I totally don't understand.

The suspensions thing is certainly an interesting aspect of a member's experience. I liken them to old school wrestling on TV when the referee counts to three for an illegal choke hold, but then the match can resume as before....with more choking ! :D

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