Jump to content
Political Discussion Forums

Will Ukraine Be Partitioned?


Ukraine Partition  

25 members have voted

You do not have permission to vote in this poll, or see the poll results. Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 436
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I believe that the EU has the logical approach. For anybody to give more arms to Kiev would lead to an escalation of the conflict and to even more Ukrainian losses. As has been mentioned earlier, if Russia is truly the aggressor then it could take Ukraine in a day.

I do not think that Russia wants Ukraine. I think it wants to take control of the areas in which Russian is the major language and the majority of the people want no part of the Kiev government.

A possible solution may be an agreed to ceasefire where the contested areas would be allowed to vote as to where their allegiance stands. I know it would be difficult because nobody trusts each other and the result of any local vote would be contested by the loser.

The EU wants this problem to disappear, the Americans really do not want to get involved in yet another foreign civil war and the world economy continues to suffer.

Lots of macho banging on their shields with little taste for compromise.

The Americans have always worked on the principle that might is right. Well, for Russian Ukrainians, might is right. They will not give up the land that they have gained.

Link to post
Share on other sites

They are black and white to you because thats all your brain has the capacity for. Theres a lot more to it than that.

No, there really isn't. It's only your far left ideological biases which struggle to find excuses for the behaviour of the Russians.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Another silly oversimplification. If Russia wanted to take Ukraine by military force they could take the whole country in three days.

Sure they could. That's absolutely undeniable. But the Russians have always had this bizarre need to cling to a fig leaf of legitimacy. They can pretend, even if no one believes them, that the Russian troops attacking Ukraine are local separatists, can pretend the Russians captured were 'volunteers', can pretend satellite photos showing tanks and artillery crossing the border are lies. But they can't do that if entire Russian army divisions flood across the border all at once.

Must be frustrating as hell for the local army commander, who is probably on the phone every day arguing for more equipment and troops, but they are winning, so why should they blow their fig leaf?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if pointing out someone is a binary thinker is really an insult. Some people see things in black and white and some people can see the shades of gray.

And some people see things clearly, and some people see things the way they want to see them, and think that makes them extra special.

Edited by Argus
Link to post
Share on other sites

Fixed that for ya.

I agree. I've been reading newspaper footage from 1948, when Czechoslovakia "went Communist." The Russians pulled the same garbage, i.e. fomenting bogus internal strife and then intervening.
Link to post
Share on other sites

No, there really isn't. It's only your far left ideological biases which struggle to find excuses for the behaviour of the Russians.

Maybe I heard it from him too many times, but I automatically read this in Bill O'Reiley's voice.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree. I've been reading newspaper footage from 1948, when Czechoslovakia "went Communist." The Russians pulled the same garbage, i.e. fomenting bogus internal strife and then intervening.

Let's not forget the US and some allied financial support for Germany under Nazi rule early on.

https://libcom.org/library/allied-multinationals-supply-nazi-germany-world-war-2

Link to post
Share on other sites

Since a military resolution is not possible a political one based on partition is the only alternative. No one from the West or EU is dumb enough to start arming Kiev.

If you feel that it is Putin behind this "invasion", then you must assume that Putin is not going to back off since he has clearly the greater military. Any American involvement is discouraged by the EU since any escalation or conflict will put Europe right into the middle.

If you feel that that this is an "insurrection" by Russian speaking and Russian sympathisers in Eastern Ukraine then how could you support a suppression of the wishes of the local people by allowing Kiev to suppress these people?

I believe that the only question will be the boundary. Some kind of negotiation will result where the territory in the Eastern Ukraine will be separated with a buffer zone in between. Part of that negotiation will be a free vote of those in the separated territory as to their wishes; Autonomy, annexation to Russia or some kind of association with Kiev.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The astonishing thing is how the western propaganda has sunk in so uncritically regarding the Ukraine crisis.

Think it might have something to do with Ukraine holding free, fair and open elections while Russia is a brutal thuggocracy?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Think it might have something to do with Ukraine holding free, fair and open elections while Russia is a brutal thuggocracy?

This is more being fought over resources. Ukraine has found to have a large gas deposit putting Russia at risk of loosing money. Ukraine would most likely sell it to the EU an cut Russia out of the loop. This is a good reason as to why the EU are courting Urkaine to enter into the EU. Would put Russia in a really interesting position.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Follow the money.

Quite right. You've mentioned it many times as have I. Following the money will reveal much of what we need to know.

PM Harper has now come out with "not ruling out providing weapons for Kiev."

That is all we now need from the PMO. Get Canada involved in another civil war. Who is this guy listening to?

He is not listening to Canadians that is for sure.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, another "peace deal" has been negotiated. Hope this one stands for a while. Too many folks getting killed there. Have seen two versions of the agreement; One from Kiev and one from the Separatists. It will be interesting to see which one is the closest to the actual conditions on paper.

Now waiting to read how Kiev "won" this war and how the Separatists "won" this war - until the war starts again.

Time to follow the money.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So the peace deal stipulates that a cease fire will start on ... Sunday night!?!?

So what this means that the combatants have 48 hrs to bomb, shoot, kill, maim and take as much territory as possible over the next 48 hrs.

Well, what has happened since the "deal" is that the combatants are bombing, shooting, killing, maiming each other and trying to take as much territory as possible before Sunday night.

Interesting negotiations.

Link to post
Share on other sites

PM Harper has now come out with "not ruling out providing weapons for Kiev."

That is all we now need from the PMO. Get Canada involved in another civil war. Who is this guy listening to?

I called this a year ago. More calls for appeasement.

The world is getting pretty outraged right now I'd say. But you can't compare something that has happened in the last 2 days to a situation that's been going on for longer than a lot of people have been alive.

Read my next post after the one you quoted. The world's reaction will be to weep. Far less than the reaction to similar actions by democracies such as Israel or the U.S.

Unfortunately almost a year ago I was prophetic. William Safire, on December 11, 1980 said it perfectly except that time the context was Poland. As it is likely to be again in the not-to-distant future (link):

The last time anybody invaded Poland, a World War began. This time, the West is direly warning the Soviet Union that any movement of Soviet forces across the Polish border would be met with coordinated cries of anguish and nicely orchestrated hand-wringing.

Too bad. We're letting another free society go down the drain.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

It will and those who cheer Putin today in Donetsk will live to regret their foolishness.

One question I have for Mr. Harper. Does your BFF BIbi have exactly the same policy as Canada on Ukraine? Are you sure about that?

http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/diplomacy-defense/59037-150126-maintaining-good-relations-with-russia-a-top-priority-for-israel-fm-says

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Announcements




×
×
  • Create New...