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August1991

Will Ukraine Be Partitioned?

Ukraine Partition  

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The cost of living in Kiev is on steady rise. My granny Paulina informed me today about the latest event: the price on bread has tripled! It's evident that the economy is going down in the Ukraine with each passing day. Western experts assert Ukraine will follow the scenario of Greece. All the industrial sector of Ukraine, her lands and natural resources may well go into the hands of western countries! The world-known American expert Paul Roberts has declared the other day that very soon Kiev will have to reduce social pavements. I see it as really worrisome, for my granny's sole source of living is her pension and she doesn't want to join us here in Canada where we could take care of her!
I suppose EU or the USA or both must pay pensions to Ukrainian aged people then ..... 'course they are no strangers to change of power in Ukraine and its present challenges.

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My granny Paulina informed me today about the latest event: the price on bread has tripled!

Your "granny Paulina" (a strange spelling for a Kievan) lied you. The price on basic sorts of bread (and it is really good bread) increased in Kiev by average 10% since the war began.

http://kiev.segodnya.ua/kbusiness/skolko-budet-stoit-hleb-v-kieve-599985.html

Next time be more realistic, otherwise I will complain to your supervisor in Olgino.

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Canada has just sent in Canadian ground troops into Ukraine to "train" other soldiers.

This jack*** Harper, by the time we toss him out, will have got us involved in more dumb military actions than the next government can get us out of.

I would not be surprised if his next great idea would be to reinstitute the draft.

God help Canada.

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So Canada is sending 200 troops into Western Ukraine to be "training" Ukrainian soldiers. They will be stationed with other American forces near the border with Poland.

Looks to me like NATO is protecting its Eastern flank by unofficially creating a military trip wire in Ukraine which sends their message to Russia. Russia is winning that war and I assume that this latest move by Western forces indicates that while the Russians may hold on to current land in Eastern Ukraine it cannot absorb all of Ukraine.

I hope this move will force a stoppage of military hostilities, redraw the new map of Ukraine with Russian speaking areas under Russian control ands guarantee the stability and safety in the Ukrainian speaking areas controlled by Kiev.

Ukraine will never be "reconstructed" to where it was before the revolution in Kiev and separation of the Eastern Russian speaking oblasts. The only question is where and how the new borders will be drawn.

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An insider's opinion is in the Twitter stream from that Ukrainian pianist who was refused by the Toronto Symphony last week: @vallisitsa.

Canada is going into a quagmire that it does not understand. It may include good guys, but it also includes neo-nazis, corrupt politicians and businessmen, human-rights abusers, etc.

Something like 11 anti-government activists (journalists, etc.) have died suspiciously in the last few weeks.

This may be a "friendly" regime, but not necessarily a "democratic" one, at least not in the sense that we understand.

Edited by Icebound

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Gee... If Canada has to "retreat to the Polish border" from their training mission, will they find a friendly safe haven?

http://fortruss.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/general-skrzypczak-i-retract-everything.html

http://newcoldwar.org/top-polish-military-advisor-completely-withdraws-his-support-of-ukraine-govt/

Edited by Icebound

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A new problem could be in front of the Tories when they send the 200 trainers to train the Ukraine military. Apparently there could be training neo-nazi militias, who have enrolled in the Ukraine military. This also would be very dangerous for our trainers because I do believe the minister said they wouldn't be armed, correct me if I'm wrong. http://www.thestarphoenix.com/life/Canadian+training+mission+warned+Nazi+militias/10983767/story.html

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Is that the one before the revolution in Kiev, the one after the revolution in Kiev, the one supported by the legitimate Ukrainian army, the one supported by the rogue right wing militias, or the one in charge of the Eastern oblasts?

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Is that the one before the revolution in Kiev, the one after the revolution in Kiev, the one supported by the legitimate Ukrainian army, the one supported by the rogue right wing militias, or the one in charge of the Eastern oblasts?

You're being obtuse about something that isn't really all that complicated.

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..... something that isn't really all that complicated.

the above.... when referring to Ukrainian elections.... has got to be the most hilarious and naive statement that I have seen in a very long time.

There were at least 29 parties contesting the 2014 pariliamentary election... who were the morphed result evolving from the sixty-plus parties of 10 years previous.

There were 9 or 10 serious canditates in the presidential race....some of whom were expelled by their own parties in the middle of the election campaign.

Charges of vote-tampering abound on all sides.

There were parts of the country who didn't vote because they didn't want to; there were parts of the country who would have liked to, but couldn't because of the security issues.

The country... as reflected more-or-less in its parliament ... has factions that are pro-western, pro-Russian, pro-Nazi, pro-farmer, pro-business, pro-reform, pro-communist, anti-communist, reformist, anti-reformist......

All this .... "isn't really all that complicated..." on about the same scale as Iraq in 2003 was "really not all that complicated".

Edited by Icebound

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.....

Canada is going into a quagmire that it does not understand. It may include good guys, but it also includes neo-nazis, corrupt politicians and businessmen, human-rights abusers, etc.

.....

And then here is yet ANOTHER group that we did or did not know about.... even their self-proclaimed name "Christian Taliban" should make us sit up and take notice....

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2015/04/taliban-crusade-ukraine-front-lines-150414125522623.html

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Is that the one before the revolution in Kiev, the one after the revolution in Kiev, the one supported by the legitimate Ukrainian army, the one supported by the rogue right wing militias, or the one in charge of the Eastern oblasts?

Stop dreaming. Get real. There was no revolution in Ukraine. There was the same democratically elected parliament "before" and "after". Until the recent election.

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It's not about the gas at all. Russia had been selling the gas for the veeeery good price, but after the Us and Ukraine interaction, of course, it jumped up!

Ukraine has destroying itself from the inside, and I believe that the civil war will stop! Russians and Ukrainian people were the closest partners and brother, and I hope that this horror will stop and things will be the same good, and Ukraine will rebuild the country even better and everyone will help them!

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I agree. The smartest thing that the West did was stay out of this civil war. Those in the East continue to speak Russian and those in the West continue to speak Ukrainian. I believe that the West has accepted the reality of the schism and normal relations will soon exist between Russia and the West. Already some sanctions are being lifted and I believe we will soon see most (if not all) of them lifted soon.

The West cannot afford to be an enemy of Russia. The Middle East is in turmoil. Unless Russia is brought into the dialogue, then we will see no resolution of the problems with ISIL.

There is no longer any "conflict" in the Ukraine. It appears to me that the people in the East under the revolutionaries are happy in their position and the people in Kiev are happy in their position. So be it.

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Looks like the USA has finally accepted the fact that sanctions against Russia do not work and id building bridges with Putin. US Secretary of State Kerry just went to Sochi for some glad handing with Putin.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/16/world/europe/a-diplomatic-victory-and-affirmation-for-putin.html?_r=0

How much longer before (me too) Harper also drops sanctions that are hurting us much more than the Russians. Russia and Iran are the key to that simmering fiasco in that Iraq/Syria/Isil community.

That "war" is over. Re-draw the boundaries of Ukraine to represent the reality of the current situation based on the boundaries acceptable to the local populations.

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Looks like the USA has finally accepted the fact that sanctions against Russia do not work and id building bridges with Putin. US Secretary of State Kerry just went to Sochi for some glad handing with Putin.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/16/world/europe/a-diplomatic-victory-and-affirmation-for-putin.html?_r=0

How much longer before (me too) Harper also drops sanctions that are hurting us much more than the Russians. Russia and Iran are the key to that simmering fiasco in that Iraq/Syria/Isil community.

That "war" is over. Re-draw the boundaries of Ukraine to represent the reality of the current situation based on the boundaries acceptable to the local populations.

Another cosmic wimp-out,

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Not sure what that means. Those folks loyal to Kiev have moved to Ukrainian held areas and those folks loyal to Russia have moved to the "rebel" held areas and stability is the result. A situation that could be used as a template in other parts of the world where a dominant military is pushing locals off their lands, squeezing locals into outdoor prisons and building settlement on their land.

The Ukrainian situation is yet another example that eventually, language, culture and religion will create their own boundaries - unless of course you push people off their land so they cannot rebel.

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Its been about a year, the economic sanctions on Russia have resulted in Putin's popularity dropping from 87% to 85%. The West has continued posturing about stopping Russian invasions of Baltics or Poland or Greenland or .....? Putin has never shown any aggression towards a NATO country and I doubt if he would ever consider any.

The vast majority of those previously Ukrainian lands that are now under control of the "rebels" are populated by people whose first language is Russian - just as it was before the rebels reacted to the coup in Kiev.

There is no indication that the rebels will lose this civil war or that Putin will withdraw Russian support.

It is time to accept realty, drop those silly sanctions that are costing Canada $millions in beef trade and begin negotiations with Russia for addition trade avenues.

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I wonder why we don't hear to much about Ukraine these days. As far as I know there is still a war going on, unless I missed the memo.

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It appears that the Russian annexation of the Crimea and other Russian speaking areas of Ukraine is an acceptable done deal - even to the Ukrainians;

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/sport/ukraine-allows-seven-crimean-athletes-to-compete-for-russia-395749.html

Looks like the Ukraine has accepted the inevitable - but Canada is still applying those silly sanctions. When are we too going to smarten up?

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