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1 hour ago, dialamah said:

In that spirit, which man is going to spike a woman.'s drink and rape her next week?  Which man is going to kill his wife and children next week?  We know some men, somewhere, is going to those things.  Therefore  I think men should be prevented from walking free and if you don't agree with me, that means you are willing to risk the lives of women and children to protect rapists and killers. 

 

The Quran does say that rape is okay in certain circumstances...what the right hand possesses.

So which Muslims are the terrorists? How does an infidel like me know which Muslims are murderous and which Muslims aren't?...playing wait and see seems inadvisable.

Edited by DogOnPorch

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4 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

The Quran does say that rape is okay in certain circumstances...what the right hand possesses.

So which Muslims are the terrorists? How does an infidel like me know which Muslims are murderous and which Muslims aren't?...playing wait and see seems inadvisable.

I'm sure Dia would allow women to take whatever precautions they feel are necessary to protect themselves from rape by men.  I'm sure she would allow women to be aware of the signs that a man could be dangerous - the way he dresses, the way he acts, the things he says.  I'm sure she allows that women who take precautions and try to be aware of their surroundings do not hate ALL men.

But her standards are different for how we approach Muslim extremism.  We are to automatically assume (not just assume but to actually believe) that ALL Muslims would never be extreme in their beliefs.  We are racist Islamophobes or xenophobes if we want to take reasonable precautions or are aware that certain types of Muslim dress, actions and speech would indicate a higher likelihood of extremism and danger.  She also does not allow that taking precautions (either as a country or an individuals) and being aware does not mean that a person hates ALL Muslims.

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6 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I'm sure Dia would allow women to take whatever precautions they feel are necessary to protect themselves from rape by men.  I'm sure she would allow women to be aware of the signs that a man could be dangerous - the way he dresses, the way he acts, the things he says.  I'm sure she allows that women who take precautions and try to be aware of their surroundings do not hate ALL men.

But her standards are different for how we approach Muslim extremism.  We are to automatically assume (not just assume but to actually believe) that ALL Muslims would never be extreme in their beliefs.  We are racist Islamophobes or xenophobes if we want to take reasonable precautions or are aware that certain types of Muslim dress, actions and speech would indicate a higher likelihood of extremism and danger.  She also does not allow that taking precautions (either as a country or an individuals) and being aware does not mean that a person hates ALL Muslims.

 

Folks bandy about the word xenophobia without ever knowing who Xenophon was or what he did...and why he did it. There's a good reason for ol' Xenophon...The Stranger...to dislike the "other"...ie The Persians.

 

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This is a reminder that Hamas is a truly evil organization.  A terrorist shot 7 Jews on Sunday night, including a woman who was eight months pregnant shooting her in the stomach. The baby, a Canadian citizen, was delivered but died today -  Hamas is celebrating. 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-claims-deadly-ofra-terror-attack-after-israel-kills-suspected-shooter/

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Goddess said:

But that's exactly the point - we don't know.  So women take a LOT of precautions.  

Going with your analogy - are ALL women misandrysts who take precautions against getting drugged and raped?  Do all women who take those precautions HATE men?  

If these women were wanting government to take action against virtually all men, then yes.

I agree, women do take precautiins against being raped by men, based on their personal assessment of risk.

But when a man shows up on the news because he's raped someone, women do not go on social media saying "Where are all the men condemning these rapists?" or "Here is more proof that men are prone to rape.  The government must do more!  Men must not be allowed in bars and clubs where women are, unless they pass a special security screening." 

If my daughter, granddaughter, sister, friend were to start dating a Muslim I would advise them to be particularly aware of the cultural and religious norms that may make them poor relationship material.  I would advise them the same should they start dating a South Asian, certain Christian sects, obsevant Jews etc.  I would do this in the same spirit as I would advise them to watch their drinks while out in public, and to be aware of their surroundings at all times.  

That is the difference, in my opinion, between taking reasonable precautions based on understood group behaviors and tipping over into fear-mongering and phobia.  

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23 minutes ago, dialamah said:

based on their personal assessment of risk.

And do you allow us to each make our own personal assessment of risk?  What YOU are willing to risk personally may be different from what another person is willing to risk.  Your granddaughter may feel your advice on being cautious is just you being an Islamophobe.  Perhaps if she's in love, she is more willing to risk certain things than you would be willing to risk for yourself.

You told me one time that I was probably exposed to more fundamentalist Muslims where I was living than other people who perhaps live in bigger cities and Muslims are not such new immigrants.  I agreed with you.

You insist there are NO no-go zones in Europe or any other country.  None.  At all.  That it is all just fear-mongering and lies.  But when I've seen interviews of those who live near or in these no-go zones and when I have talked to Europeans who are dealing with them and the lack of integration from the Muslim community, I accept their own personal assessment of risk.  I understand that their risk - living in or near no-go zones - is likely greater than the politicians who live in giant houses with security gates or a person who lives in a big city and works with well-integrated Muslims.

Given that assessment, why do you  not allow my own personal assessment of my own risks?  Why do insist that the risk is the same for all people?  Why do you insist that everyone agree with and adopt YOUR personal assessment of risk or else they are racist Islamophobes?

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1 hour ago, Goddess said:

But her standards are different for how we approach Muslim extremism.  We are to automatically assume (not just assume but to actually believe) that ALL Muslims would never be extreme in their beliefs.  

Where have I said ALL Muslims would never be extreme in their beliefs?  I have posted here for 3 years, and you'll not find a post from me claiming that at all.

You will find posts where I have said the following:

°Muslims are generally more conservative than Westerners;

°Islamic countries are especially poor at human rights.

°Islamic countries and culture is patriarchal; 

°extemism is a problem around the world;

°Worldwide, Muslims are over-represented among terrorists,

°Muslims condemn terrorism just as we do. 

°Authorities in Canada and the US consider rightwing terrorism a more significant threat in Canada than Islamic terrorism; 

Tell me, how does a left-of-center like me know which rightwingers, such as you and DoP, are murderous and which rightwingers aren't?... playing wait and see seems inadvisable.  Therefore, I propose that the government screen all right wingers for security risks.

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2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Where have I said ALL Muslims would never be extreme in their beliefs? 

I said you want everyone to act on the assumption/belief that there are no Muslim extremists and that they are all peaceful.  

They are not all peaceful.  And there is no way to tell which are extremists unless you look at their dress, their actions and their speech.

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1 minute ago, Goddess said:

And there is no way to tell which are extremists unless you look at their dress, their actions and their speech.

By some people's standards a woman in a hijab is an extremist and it is inconceivable that she might herself be 'progressive' or gay.  Why would I trust such flimsy criteria?

Their speech might give one a better idea of where their heart is, so I agree ... Talking to someone can help determine how extreme they are.  It also can provide an opportunity to present counter arguments to extreme positions held.  

And one's actions are by far the best way to determine how extreme they are.  Thats why I believe that an individual should be held responsible for his or her crime, rather than many people responsible for an individual's crime.

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