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Invalidating Canadian Passports


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The Harper government has declared that it will invalidate the passports of those Canadians who leave the country to fight on behalf of “extremist” groups.;

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/09/20/canadian-government-revoking-passports-of-citizens-trying-to-join-extremist-groups/

While I doubt that any Canadian has any problems with taking away Canadian privileges from anyone choosing to join any organization at war with Canada, I do have a few questions that have not been answered by the announcement.

If we know that an individual is joining any group which is detrimental to our foreign policy do we not want to keep track of where they are and when they come back? Why would we now lose contact with that individual by taking away their passport?

Who makes the decision of the status of the group which the Canadian joins? If he joins the group opposing Assad in Syria he is a good guy if he is a moderate and a bad guy if he is a member of ISIS. Do we request ISIL for a list of their members?

What about the Ukraine? If a Canadian Ukrainian goes over to fight for Kiev then he is a good guy but if he fights with Donesk then he is a bad guy?

What about that fiasco in Iraq, Syria, Libya and Yemen, we don't know who the good guys or the bad guys are yet. How will we know which passports to invalidate?

It appears to me that this is a cynical move by the Harper government directed towards domestic politics to try to placate a questioning Canadian public. I can see this as perhaps a method to identify real terrorists with Canadian passports but the fact of warning them that we are taking away their passports does not make a lot of sense to me. Why publicize this move?

Maybe they feel those folks do not read Canadian newspapers so they will not be warned.

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Your passport can be taken away for a variety of reasons. I think you may be thinking about citizenship and that can't be taken away if you are a "born and bred" Canadian no matter what you do. The removal of citizenship of "other" Canadians is the controversy. My suggestion, don't go overseas to fight any non legally declared wars. You could get hurt.

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While I doubt that any Canadian has any problems with taking away Canadian privileges from anyone choosing to join any organization at war with Canada, I do have a few questions that have not been answered by the announcement.

If we know that an individual is joining any group which is detrimental to our foreign policy do we not want to keep track of where they are and when they come back? Why would we now lose contact with that individual by taking away their passport?

Not aware of any declaration of war coming out of parliament?

Anyways

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

  • (a) freedom of conscience and religion;

  • (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

  • (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and

  • (d) freedom of association.

Do you see any problem with the new government rules yet?

6. (1) Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada.

How about now?

From how the Canadian Charter of rights and freedoms is written, the government CAN NOT take away your passport for the reason that they have prescribed. They calculated that the people they are up against do not have the resources to launch a legal challenge.

WWWTT

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Not aware of any declaration of war coming out of parliament?

Anyways

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

  • (a) freedom of conscience and religion;

  • (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

  • (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and

  • (d) freedom of association.

Do you see any problem with the new government rules yet?

None whatsoever. You can think and say anything you want here in Canada. You can even say that you support what ISIS is doing in the middle east. What you can't do is join a milirarized organization to fight against Canada or her allies.

6. (1) Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada.

How about now?

Still no. They can come and go as they please. They can't associate with terrorist groups.

From how the Canadian Charter of rights and freedoms is written, the government CAN NOT take away your passport for the reason that they have prescribed. They calculated that the people they are up against do not have the resources to launch a legal challenge.

The Charter is a piece of toilet paper that needs to be flushed. We have a not withstanding clause for a reason, it's long over due to be invoked.

Besides, people can and do get their passports revokes for all kinds of reasons already. If there was ever a good reason to do it, this is it.

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None whatsoever. You can think and say anything you want here in Canada. You can even say that you support what ISIS is doing in the middle east. What you can't do is join a milirarized organization to fight against Canada or her allies.

Still no. They can come and go as they please. They can't associate with terrorist groups.

Besides, people can and do get their passports revokes for all kinds of reasons already. If there was ever a good reason to do it, this is it.

Ya then explain this!

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCsQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thestar.com%2Fnews%2Fcanada%2Fomarkhadr%2F2012%2F09%2F29%2Fomar_khadr_back_in_canada.html&ei=pFgfVIO2HMWXyASns4D4BQ&usg=AFQjCNFPV1LUsIeSjF3POtrZZBOFrZnF5g&bvm=bv.75775273,d.aWw&cad=rja

If you want to keep debating, then you're going to have to start providing something to back up your claims beyond your own opinion!

Like I said before, the government is going after a small tiny group that can't launch a counter battle in court, that simple.

And the way courts go, whoever has the deepest pockets wins!

WWWTT

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The legal issues surrounding this can be debated but what is obvious is that Canada owes absolutely nothing to individuals who leave Canada to go fight for ISIS. If there's a way to make sure they never come back, all the better. Better yet if such monsters are blown to bits while they are over there, Canadian passport and all.

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The legal issues surrounding this can be debated but what is obvious is that Canada owes absolutely nothing to individuals who leave Canada to go fight for ISIS. If there's a way to make sure they never come back, all the better. Better yet if such monsters are blown to bits while they are over there, Canadian passport and all.

QFT!

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Not aware of any declaration of war coming out of parliament?

Anyways

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

  • (a) freedom of conscience and religion;

  • (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of othe press and other media of communication;

  • (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and

  • (d) freedom of association.

Do you see any problem with the new government rules yet?

6. (1) Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada.

9

How about now?

From how the Canadian Charter of rights and freedoms is written, the government CAN NOT take away your passport for the reason that they have prescribed. They calculated that the people they are up against do not have the resources to launch a legal challenge.

WWWTT

Canadian rights only apply within Canada. A citizen can leave and return any time they want without a passport. Of course, not many countries will let them in without one

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I have no problem with revoking passports of any who fight against Canada or her allies. The difficulty as I see it is the term "terrorist" has been so overused that to-days terrorist is tomorrows ally. Those folks in Syria fighting against Assad and ISIL - are they terrorists? Which side do we support in Libya, Yemen, Somalia etc?

My major question is the process we are using. These identified folks who are fighting against Canada, do we not want to keep track of them? By following the passport we know what they are doing and where they are going. We revoke their Canadian passport, they get another one and re-enter Canada anonymously. Makes no sense to me.

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Canadian right only apply within Canada, But you can't return to Canada with out a passport.

You can if you can prove you are a citizen, birth certificate, citizenship papers. Citizens cannot be refused entry.

Edited by Wilber
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My major question is the process we are using. These identified folks who are fighting against Canada, do we not want to keep track of them? By following the passport we know what they are doing and where they are going. We revoke their Canadian passport, they get another one and re-enter Canada anonymously. Makes no sense to me.

They could do that anyway. Having a Canadian passport doesn't stop them from getting another.

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You can if you can prove you are a citizen, birth certificate, citizenship papers. Citizens cannot be refused entry.

Hard to travel without one, most countries will not allow you to board or pass through security without one...even at Canadian customs you need to show it, so you'll be flagged , and held until they decide to release you....

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Hard to travel without one, most countries will not allow you to board or pass through security without one...even at Canadian customs you need to show it, so you'll be flagged , and held until they decide to release you....

Agree completely, just responding to the assertion that Canadian citizens can be refused entry into Canada. They may have to cool their heels until it is verified but once done, they are free to enter, passport or not.

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None whatsoever. You can think and say anything you want here in Canada. You can even say that you support what ISIS is doing in the middle east. What you can't do is join a milirarized organization to fight against Canada or her allies.

Of course you can and you have the right to a fair trial when you're caught too. We have laws and a judiciary. They ought to be followed. I don't want a government that can decide for partisan reasons that it's going to take away passports and limit mobility rights. People who fight for ISIS should be tried in the judiciary under the applicable laws, not have their citizenships or passports revoked on a political whim.

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Not aware of any declaration of war coming out of parliament?

Anyways

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

  • (a) freedom of conscience and religion;

  • (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

  • (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and

  • (d) freedom of association.

Do you see any problem with the new government rules yet?

6. (1) Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada.

How about now?

From how the Canadian Charter of rights and freedoms is written, the government CAN NOT take away your passport for the reason that they have prescribed. They calculated that the people they are up against do not have the resources to launch a legal challenge.

WWWTT

You can't quote the charter and say the government can't do that. The government and citizens have the right to over step the charter where:

1) there is a justifiable reason to do so

and

2) Actions taken are directly related to the reason

and

3) there's isn't a better way to do it, with out infringing on Charter Values

There are plenty of exampled where the government has over stepped charter values ex hate speech, fundamentalist religious education, scientology. in this case I think that 1) canadian citizens fighting with ISIS is both a threat that the government need to address. 2) Banning passports to ISIS fighters is directly related to that. 3) I can't really think of a better way unless we massively upgrade CSIS with orwellian survaillence abilities. But honestly I think we should be doing it on principle

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You can if you can prove you are a citizen, birth certificate, citizenship papers. Citizens cannot be refused entry.

Because terrorists would be travelling abroad with those documents? Even with those documents you's still have to apply for a new passport before re-entering Canada, That application I assume would be denied. By removing their passports you are in effect removing their citizenship.

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