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bush_cheney2004

Let's make Some Easy Money - Oil ETFs

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OK folks....let's make some easy money in the way of oil ETFs (Exchange Traded Funds). What is your strategy and favorite funds to make a killing on the cratered oil sector ? Did you already short the hell out of it....or want to go long for eventual return to higher oil prices ?

I am currently looking at U.S. ETFs and individual equities that have been beat up pretty good, but would also buy from the TSX on a good dip. Dividends are welcomed.

It's time for capitalists to make some (more) dough the easy way.....maybe toss a few bones to the socialists in the way of capital gains taxes next year.

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I am watching oil itself, UGO, and US gasoline UGA. These are relatively simple, follow the price of the commodity, type ETF's.

Have to watch contango a bit but decay is of little to no concern.

On the leverage side you can do the 3 times thing with UWTI and DWTI. So, if oil goes up 10% then UWTI would go up 30% and DWTI would go down 30% (all numbers are "ish" as in the real world it does not quite work this way).

Contango here is more important and decay can be a bitch - just look at UGAZ/DGAZ over the past year in relation to the price of natural gas.

In terms of ETF's that follow real companies: I look at the offerings from iShares and Vanguard in both Canada and the US.

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....On the leverage side you can do the 3 times thing with UWTI and DWTI. So, if oil goes up 10% then UWTI would go up 30% and DWTI would go down 30% (all numbers are "ish" as in the real world it does not quite work this way).

You are braver than I, plus it seems that the leveraged ETF choices do not have significant share volume compared to something like NYSE:USO, which I bought today. The Connoco-Phillips (COP) dividend is always nice too.

I will scour the TSX for some opportunities that are really oversold as well.

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I'm long USO since oil was at about $60. Not too worried about the current decline, to me it seems obvious it'll provide a nice return eventually.

For shorter term trades I prefer the leveraged ETFs msj mentions, but for longer term plays like betting that oil will eventually go back to $100+, decay can be too big of a factor over those timescales, so a 1:1 ETF like USO better suits those needs.

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I'm long USO since oil was at about $60. Not too worried about the current decline, to me it seems obvious it'll provide a nice return eventually.

Agreed.....it is hard to "catch a falling knife". I will average down on USO as needed. I don't see oil going below $40, but what the hell do I know !

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I got out of oil a while back, and even out of the pipelines in November. What did I go into? American Airlines, Southwest Airlines, Delta, and Federal Express. Every time oil goes down they go up.

Edited by Argus

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I sold some energy stocks last month because I needed a loss to offset some of my capital gains last tax year. I'm hoping they will drop some more so I can buy them back in a few weeks. Good luck on those airline stocks, I won't go near them. Just understand they are speculative, not a real investment.

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I sold some energy stocks last month because I needed a loss to offset some of my capital gains last tax year. I'm hoping they will drop some more so I can buy them back in a few weeks. Good luck on those airline stocks, I won't go near them. Just understand they are speculative, not a real investment.

That's okay. I'm hearing oil may be a bear market for years to come. I have no intention of going anywhere near energy stocks.

My airline stocks are up 20%-40% in the last couple of months. And when oil comes back, I'll exit airlines and get back into that.

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Nothing wrong with trading... as long as you make money.

Lots of people do it just fine since you just have to get the general trend right and be willing to hold through thick and thin if your timing is "wrong."

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Nothing wrong with trading... as long as you make money.

Lots of people do it just fine since you just have to get the general trend right and be willing to hold through thick and thin if your timing is "wrong."

Holding through thick and thin is the opposite of what I do. I look for good companies, or industries (in the case of sector ETFs) with reasonable upward momentum. If that momentum reverses to a significant degree, I bail.

Interestingly, I have a 'trial portfolio' I've been monitoring for two years now where I simply choose the stocks on my watch list with the highest momentum, and change over the lowest producers every month, and that portfolio consistently out performs anything else I can come up with. I just haven't been brave enough to use it.

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Nothing wrong with trading... as long as you make money.

Lots of people do it just fine since you just have to get the general trend right and be willing to hold through thick and thin if your timing is "wrong."

Airlines are cash flow machines in a very competitive industry. Much of their income is discretionary spending, so they are the first to get hit in a recession and the last to recover. Money can be made trading them but they are not a long term investment IMO.

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What I mean by holding through thick and thin is that when I am buying a beaten up stock or industry I don't lose any sleep if I buy early and have to wait for price increases.

I have bought US banks and US home builders "too soon" yet managed to earn an excellent return.

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A question for BC 2004: with Trannies not making new highs despite lower gas prices is it time to raise cash and buy into oil stocks in a few weeks/months after a market pullback?

Strange, no? that Trannies are trading where they are?

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A question for BC 2004: with Trannies not making new highs despite lower gas prices is it time to raise cash and buy into oil stocks in a few weeks/months after a market pullback?

Strange, no? that Trannies are trading where they are?

Strange...yes...but we've had market divergence before. Also, the Dow isn't what it used to be with respect to Tranny linkage. Rail and trucking services have their own issues to work out. Channeling Warren Buffet, I almost went all in for new new tanker car orders and railroads , but capacity is limited at any price.

I am satisfied with my entry point with oil at $48, even if it goes lower. I figure there is more long term upside than short term downside.

Of course, we should always keep some powder dry for lower price opportunities in and outside the energy sector; I agree that a broad correction is overdue.

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Oil ETF > USO is up 8% today on higher oil prices. Time to think about an exit strategy...fast, easy money !

And up 20% overall in the last four days of trading..........prices plummet, the smart invest and the companies trim the fat, good for the bottom line......as I said to a member in another thread, I expect $50-60 bbl by the time the Federal Government releases it budget in April, and ~$80+ a bbl by Summer driving season..........

Context is something the MSM media has never been good at, well always relying upon the bad news stories that sell..........What was never offered to contrast with the one million+ bbl glut of oil, is that said amount is half the capacity within one Supertanker..........

;)

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...What was never offered to contrast with the one million+ bbl glut of oil, is that said amount is half the capacity within one Supertanker..........

Never thought of it that way....less than one ultra large crude carrier. That's a pretty slim margin.

This ain't no dead cat bounce !

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Never thought of it that way....less than one ultra large crude carrier. That's a pretty slim margin.

[tinfoil hat] Or the production of the fields around Mosul.......any JDAMs go astray? [/tinfoil hat] ;)

This ain't no dead cat bounce !

Not at all.......Once it returns to $80 bbl my planned Spring purchase of a new Camaro is upgraded to a Corvette........ B)

And if OPEC's Sec-Gen is right, maybe a 35' Boston Whaler too :lol:

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Still a lot more upside left than downside. Oil will be $80+ again within the year is my guess.

$80-90 a bbl by Summer driving season.....

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Now that oil has gone up and back down near to those lows, how's that easy money coming?

The problem with being in Canada is it is not only the price of oil but the Canadian dollar.

I have an incentive to buy USO or even UGA every time I fill up my tank with premium gas.

Would be nice to hedge directly against oil or gas.

But that damn currency.

I just know that when I buy USO/UGA in USD that the price will go up in USD but the CDN $ will claw back some of those gains.

So not to ruin it for all of you, I have sacrificed and still have not bought in.

You should probably thank me as when I do buy in everything will probably go down further.

If you're lucky, I will get distracted, forget to buy in, and everything will go up. Then I can whine when I fill up at the pump.

Or maybe I will buy XEG in Canadian dollars and hope that works out....

So many choices.

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Doesn't matter to me...buy low...sell high. I unloaded USO @ $19 for a decent gain and wait for another entry point. Seeing higher gas prices does not always correlate with higher ETF stock price. The world is swimming in oil right now.....U.S. storage capacity is maxing out.

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Yeah, my problem is I love buying things and hate selling.

Looking forward to capacity maximizing out as I want to see what that does to the price - $35? $30?

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The price drop does not seem to be shuttering production for wells that are already online....just new drilling. To get needed revenue, suppliers have to pump more, not less. Iran could add another 500,000 bpd if sanctions are lifted.

So yeah....$30 oil is certainly possible, but that is probably the bottom.

The U.S. dollar is also kicking ass, the Fed wants to raise interest rates, and the U.S. government is buying back debt for a song.

Putin must be really pissed off (more than normal) by now.

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