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Big Guy

Islamophobia

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A tiny fraction of all Muslims participate in terrorist attacks.

An alarmingly high percentage of Muslims condone violent acts done in the name of Islam.

At present, when considering violent acts committed in the name of a religion, Islam is responsible for a high percentage.

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Who is "they" ?

Define "prone"?

If 2 in 1000 Canadian men are felons ... are Canadian men "prone" to be felons?

Are 2 in 1000 Muslim men terrorists?

Are Canadian men more "prone" to be felons than Muslims are to be terrorists?

are-all-terrorists-muslims-it-s-not-even-close

Should we count each of Anders Berens Breivik's 77 victims as a Christian terrorist crime?

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"They" would be any group you are talking about. Muslims in this case, of course. Could be any of the others.

The "prone" i was using is defined in the first dictionary on Google as "likely to or liable to suffer from, do, or experience something". I meant the "do" bit.

Only those Canadian men in your example who are prone to be felons, would be prone to be felons. So just 2, in your example. Certainly not all.

(The actual number of felons is irrelevant)

Just as only those Muslims who are prone to take umbrage at such things, would be prone to take umbrage at such things. Again, the numbers don't matter. I'm just talking about the ones that are. You actually just helped to make my point there.

(And of course, from that group, the only ones I would take issue with are those who would act violently due to their umbrage. I wouldn't have a problem with a strongly worded letter to the Editor)

Your other questions are not really relevant, and I have no idea how to respond the them.

Except the last one. Sure, if you want to. I don't know if he killed them to avenge his Prophet, or if they blasphemed, or left the church, or any other religious reason why someone should be killed, but if he did, then fill your boots.

Edited by bcsapper

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A tiny fraction of all Muslims participate in terrorist attacks.

An alarmingly high percentage of Muslims condone violent acts done in the name of Islam.

Link?

.

At present, when considering violent acts committed in the name of a religion, Islam is responsible for a high percentage.

Link?

.

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I have read all of the different responses to my OP. In order to address them I will attempt to put them into categories;

Those that have no use for any religion and blame religion for the chaos in the Middle East.

Those who believe that Muslims have a faulty gene or drink the wrong water or are just stupid so they resort to violence and Islam just reinforces that stupidity.

Those who believe that Islam is inherently a violent ideology of exclusion and that is the cause of the problems in the Middle East.

Those who believe that Arabs are a violent race and interpret and embrace the teachings of Islam as the reason to kill.

Those who believe that Arabs generally hate the freedoms of the West and believe that Islam tells them to go to jihad and take over the world.

If I have missed a few then I apologize.

In my OP I referred to two web pages;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIST_of_Canadian_Muslims

On that page are a few of the names and contributions of 24 prominent Canadians who have assisted in maintaining this great country and are proud of their faith. They represent areas from politics to sport.

http://e..Wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_Muslims

On that page are a few of the names and contributions of 141 prominent Americans who have assisted in maintaining the great democracy of the United States. and are proud of their faith. They represent every segment of society from politics to music. Oh yes - included are 11 criminals.

I challenge those who blame Islam for violent teachings that lead to killing and chaos to explain to me why those prominent Muslims named above have not succumbed to those violent instructions from the Koran.

What is keeping those one million practicing Muslims in Canada and those 7 million in the USA (the third largest religious group) from revolting, following the tenets of that evil Koran and creating an Islamic state in North America?

Please accept that challenge and convince me that Islam is the cause of the problems in the Middle East.

I submit that there may be another reason not stated in this post. Perhaps the violence is a reaction to the history of meddling from the West and the attempt by some Western countries to subjugate the populations, pillage the resources and dictate how they should be governed. Maybe they just want to be left alone to solve their own problems in their own way.

Edited by Big Guy

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There is still hope....all is not lost. Today, a coworker from Pakistan who just completed his first hajj last year and uses his laptop for audio calls to prayer each day uttered an interesting word in a business meeting. That word was....kosher.

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Please accept that challenge and convince me that Islam is the cause of the problems in the Middle East.

To me, that's a little disingenuous. "Problems in the Middle East" encompasses rather a lot, don't you think?

Wasn't the issue in the OP Islamophobia, and whether or not those who thought Islam was at the root of some pretty despicable acts in the Middle East, Europe and Africa were racists and bigots? (No they are not, as far as I can see)

Wasn't the question whether or not we can blame the teachings of Islam for hate, violence and chaos? (Sure can, as far as I can see)

(Surely after all this I don't need to state that that applies to those Muslims who actually committed the acts of hate, violence and chaos. I'd better, just in case)

I don't know about the problems of the Middle East. I think that's a book.

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What makes you believe that we can blame the teachings of Islam for hate, violence and chaos?

A penniless, male, angry, Arab, Muslim, who has lost his home and members of his family to Western forces kills an American and he does so because he is a Muslim?

Edited by Big Guy

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Like I said before, somewhere, "We have avenged the Prophet" is a dead giveaway.

I also have an inkling that Pakistan wouldn't have the death penalty for blasphemy if it was a Rastafarian country.

But I don't know much about Rastafarians, so maybe it would.

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"They" would be any group you are talking about. Muslims in this case, of course. Could be any of the others.

...

Just as only those Muslims who are prone to take umbrage at such things, would be prone to take umbrage at such things. Again, the numbers don't matter. I'm just talking about the ones that are.

I see.

Some confusion there.

I understood you to imply that Muslims are "prone to take umbrage ..."

Now I see that you meant that only some Muslims who are prone to take umbrage may be prone to take umbrage.

Got it.

.

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We have 8 million Muslims in North America - 1 million in Canada and 7 million in the USA. If Islam teaches hate and violence, why are the vast majority of North American Muslims not rioting?

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I see.

Some confusion there.

I understood you to imply that Muslims are "prone to take umbrage ..."

Now I see that you meant that only some Muslims who are prone to take umbrage may be prone to take umbrage.

Got it.

.

Exactly. But as I said, those, wholly, are not the issue. It's those among that group who react violently to it that are the problem. Hell, you took umbrage with me, but you didn't kill me.

Edited by bcsapper

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We have 8 million Muslims in North America - 1 million in Canada and 7 million in the USA. If Islam teaches hate and violence, why are the vast majority of North American Muslims not rioting?

I suppose they did the same as the Christians who abandoned the more dodgy interpretations of their book. They civilised up.

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I see we agree that it does depend on the interpretation of the text.

That is everything, yes. I don't think I'm wrong in saying that if both Muslims and Christians interpreted their religious writings literally, the Christians would out outrage the Muslims.

Could be wrong though. Don't want to get into a fight with any Christians.

Edited by bcsapper

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A tiny fraction of all Muslims participate in terrorist attacks.

An alarmingly high percentage of Muslims condone violent acts done in the name of Islam.

At present, when considering violent acts committed in the name of a religion, Islam is responsible for a high percentage.

Where is the outcry in Canada when we have

  • every six days a woman in Canada is killed by her intimate partner.
  • As of 2010, there were 582 known cases of missing or murdered Aboriginal women in Canada.6 Both Amnesty International and the United Nations have called upon the Canadian government to take action on this issue, without success.7,8 According to the Native Women’s Association of Canada, “if this figure were applied proportionately to the rest of the female population there would be over 18,000 missing Canadian women and girls
  • More than one in ten Canadian women say they have been stalked by someone in a way that made them fear for their life.

Canada doesn't need to worry about muslim terrorists, we need to worry about Canadian men assaulting and killing Canadian women. Where is the outcry! This isn't me on a personal agenda. This is me comparing outrage towards Muslims in Canada and men in Canada killing spouses.

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The Gallup and Pew studies have been posted many times in the Islamic threads. He is a link to some commentary that also contains links to the studies themselves.

Shedding Blood For Allah: Pew Study Says More Than 350 Million Muslims Support Violent Jihad

And 950 Million Muslims DO NOT Support Violent Jihad

The survey found the global median for Muslims opposed to violence in the name of Islam was 72 percent.

spin spin spin ...

And the very sad thing is that the more North American Muslims are vilified for what others have done, the more young North American Muslims, marginalized and vilified here in theirown countries, will be vulnerable to fringe fanatics' persuasion to violence.

.

Edited by jacee

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Where is the outcry in Canada when we have

  • every six days a woman in Canada is killed by her intimate partner.
  • As of 2010, there were 582 known cases of missing or murdered Aboriginal women in Canada.6 Both Amnesty International and the United Nations have called upon the Canadian government to take action on this issue, without success.7,8 According to the Native Women’s Association of Canada, “if this figure were applied proportionately to the rest of the female population there would be over 18,000 missing Canadian women and girls
  • More than one in ten Canadian women say they have been stalked by someone in a way that made them fear for their life.

Canada doesn't need to worry about muslim terrorists, we need to worry about Canadian men assaulting and killing Canadian women. Where is the outcry! This isn't me on a personal agenda. This is me comparing outrage towards Muslims in Canada and men in Canada killing spouses.

Not all men, though, right? Just some of them.

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And 950 Million Muslims DO NOT Support Violent Jihad

The survey found the global median for Muslims opposed to violence in the name of Islam was 72 percent.

spin spin spin ...

.

Exactly! Now you're getting the hang of it.

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Not all men, though, right? Just some of them.

Nah, when it comes to talking about how evil white men are, there's no point making any distinctions. They all benefit from their "privilege", partake in the "patriarchy", participate in "rape culture", and by their very existence perpetuate the "oppression of underprivileged groups". That's also why you see so many hardcore feminists throw their support behind Islam, the religion that relegates over half a billion women to mere property.

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Who is "they" ?

Define "prone"?

If 2 in 1000 Canadian men are felons ... are Canadian men "prone" to be felons?

Are 2 in 1000 Muslim men terrorists?

Are Canadian men more "prone" to be felons than Muslims are to be terrorists?

I wish you luck on this one - I have never been able to pin people down on numbers, because they know that "blame thresholds" can be turned back on them.

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Nah, when it comes to talking about how evil white men are, there's no point making any distinctions. They all benefit from their "privilege", partake in the "patriarchy", participate in "rape culture", ...

How many of the 13 "gentlemen" dentists have come forward to identify the real perps and support the women? 1

How many of the sniggering idiots joined the perp's "hate f**k" poll? 6

How many men here think what they did to the women is just 'normal' male 'joking'? Too many.

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I wish you luck on this one - I have never been able to pin people down on numbers, because they know that "blame thresholds" can be turned back on them.

For Pete's sake, after all this!

You don't need numbers. You just need to know who you are talking about, and who you most definitely are not talking about.

Do you really think that asking the question "If 2 in 1000 Canadian men are felons ... are Canadian men "prone" to be felons?" is germane to the argument?

Edited by bcsapper

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